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Bunting Mock Draft 2/10


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It's early. There is more evaluation to do. It's early, we probably won't have a shot at Prince at 17 in any case. However, he is rated higher than McCourty was last year. If Price were projected to be as good as McCourty has turne out to be, then he would be a top 3 pick. It is unreasonable to expect anyone not in the top 5 to project to be as good as McCourty is now.

I was not overly impressed with Amukamara from what I saw of his highlights. He is no McCourty; if he was then you take him in a heartbeat--two shutdown CBs easily translates into a superior pass-rush (i.e. blitz).
 
Is there anything else you'd like to explain to me like I'm a 3-year-old?
Well, it does appear to be time for you to learn how to use the potty like a big boy ... :confused2:
 
Well, it does appear to be time for you to learn how to use the potty like a big boy ... :confused2:

At my age and after what I've been through medically the past few years, I'm much more likely to be headed in the other direction. ;)
 
It is unreasonable to expect anyone not in the top 5 to project to be as good as McCourty is now.

I'm not so sure about that. Given the right player in the right scheme with the heart and desire, there is no reason a 2011 draftee can not develop into an all pro at their position. I think every draft has those players, like McCourty was last year.
 
So, the rule now limits off-season rosters to 53? Really?

I only mention this because that's what I was talking about. Now, just so I'm sure I have this straight, since you appear to be implying that I'm an idiot, I've been under the impression that you get 80 guys to work with through OTAs and camp and then you whittle that down to the best 61 - 53 on the active rosterplus 8 on the P/S. So, it seems to me that the more fresh talent you start with in that 80, the more likely that your final 61 will be better because at least a few of those positions, including the roster end, can almost always stand some upgrades.

It's also been my observation that pretty much every year, someone says, "well, you know, there really isn't any room on the final roster for more than a handful of guys, so the Pats won't draft more than that because they extra ones don't have any chance of making the team". And yet, the Pats seem to nearly always draft more than that AND to sign a few additional UDFAs. Wonder of wonders, quite often, one or two or three of those late rounders - and even, sometimes, UDFAs - make the 53 or, at least, the P/S and eventually turn into active players with some value - guys who we wouldn't have at all if BB actually followed the notion that he shouldn't draft more guys than we "have room for" based on last year's 53-man roster.

So, am I completely off base here? Is there anything else you'd like to explain to me like I'm a 3-year-old?

If you want to self proclaim yourself to be an idiot, then so be it. I'd suggest you better stick to watching SpongeBob Squarepants as a 3yr old than trying to figure out football.

Roster is 53. You still won't answer my question - HOW MANY OPEN ROSTER SPOTS on 2011 TEAM ? We can then debate the point. Let me give you a hint...
2009 draft : 8 players on this team (Roster + PS)
2010 draft : 8 players on this team (Roster + PS)..plus FA Woodhead

So, that's 17 players with <2 yrs experience of which i can count 15 who were contributors on regular roster ! The other two were inactive or on PS. This was expected given the team was turning over lot of experienced players post 2007 run.

So, where's the 2011 roster turnover to accomodate another 8 picks + UDFA. ??????

New England Patriots Unofficial Depth Chart
 
If you want to self proclaim yourself to be an idiot, then so be it. I'd suggest you better stick to watching SpongeBob Squarepants as a 3yr old than trying to figure out football.

Roster is 53. You still won't answer my question - HOW MANY OPEN ROSTER SPOTS on 2011 TEAM ? We can then debate the point. Let me give you a hint...
2009 draft : 8 players on this team (Roster + PS)
2010 draft : 8 players on this team (Roster + PS)..plus FA Woodhead

So, that's 17 players with <2 yrs experience of which i can count 15 who were contributors on regular roster ! The other two were inactive or on PS. This was expected given the team was turning over lot of experienced players post 2007 run.

So, where's the 2011 roster turnover to accomodate another 8 picks + UDFA. ??????

New England Patriots Unofficial Depth Chart

A lot of reports says rosters are probably going to expand so that's a few spots. And there's IR and the practice squad.

Anyhow, there are a ton of guys who were on the 2010 team that could lose their jobs: Fletcher, Wilhite, Slater, Deaderick, Love, Wendell, White, LeVoir, Neal, Ohrnberger, TBC, Moore, Ninkovich, Sergio Brown-those guys will all have to play well to stay on the Pats.
 
1) There are at least 12 open roster spots: 3 RB, 3 OL, 1 WR, 2 DL, 2 LB, 1 DB and even 1 QB to make the total 13 (we could carry 3)

2) If your point is that only 4-5 draftees are likely to make the 53-man roster, you have a strange way of making the point. You seem to think that if we believe that only 5 draftes make the final 53, then we should only draft 4-5 players. Besides, the final roster under the new CBA will almost assuredy increase, probably to 56.

3) Finally, you seem to including the Practice Squad. In that case there are 19 open roster spots. It is indeed reasonable to use late round picks for Practice Squad players.

If you want to self proclaim yourself to be an idiot, then so be it. I'd suggest you better stick to watching SpongeBob Squarepants as a 3yr old than trying to figure out football.

Roster is 53. You still won't answer my question - HOW MANY OPEN ROSTER SPOTS on 2011 TEAM ? We can then debate the point. Let me give you a hint...
2009 draft : 8 players on this team (Roster + PS)
2010 draft : 8 players on this team (Roster + PS)..plus FA Woodhead

So, that's 17 players with <2 yrs experience of which i can count 15 who were contributors on regular roster ! The other two were inactive or on PS. This was expected given the team was turning over lot of experienced players post 2007 run.

So, where's the 2011 roster turnover to accomodate another 8 picks + UDFA. ??????

New England Patriots Unofficial Depth Chart
 
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If you want to self proclaim yourself to be an idiot, then so be it. I'd suggest you better stick to watching SpongeBob Squarepants as a 3yr old than trying to figure out football.

Okay, let's review......

I started by snarking a bit on Ochmed for his claim about the Pats pass rushers being "among the worst in football" with a response pointing out that the Pats as a team in 2010 did not rank "among the worst in football" in terms of sacks. Admittedly, I didn't directly address his point about the Pats pass rushers, which is entirely valid since, individually, none of them seem even close to being elite. OTOH, subsequent posts more or less supported my point about the Pats team pass rush.

You then responded to my post by pompously declaring, "Sacks are the most useless statistic to judge a defense," which, of course, I was NOT doing. I was discussing only the pass rush.

You follow that up by explaining to me, rather impatiently, that....

Its about bringing pressure. Negative plays are result of pressure ! And sack is one type of negative play resulting from pressure, as are forced int, incompletions, QB strips/fumble etc.

... as if I had no understanding of the concept. I found your approach somewhat irritating. Nevertheless, I responded by explaining my reason for using sacks as an admittedly crude measure of pressure and further pointed out that the Pats had done fairly well in 2010 by the other pressure measures you mentioned. Perhaps I was a bit snippy?

Your comeback:

Really ? So, by _that theory_ Vrabel's 12.5 sacks in 2007 would've meant he's was bringing same "pressure" as Mario Williams (13) or Osi U (13), Demarcus Ware (14), or Jared Allen league leading 15.5.

What "theory"? Yours? You seemed to be the one with a "theory" about what constitutes pressure from a defense. I had merely pointed out the Pats 2010 stats that fit your apparent theory. So, you're criticizing me for something that had nothing whatsoever to do with what I wrote. I don't really much care for that, but, y'know, that's a pretty common debate tactic on message boards (and I'm no innocent), so I let it slide.

---------------

Then, you stated your opinion (not invalid by any means, BTW),

I don't see more than 5-6 players BB will bring onto _this team_ from the draft.

Since you didn't specify "53-man roster", I responded, rather civilly, I thought...

Not sure why this would be true. We're allowed to have 80 players on the off-season roster and I can see us easily being 9-12 guys below that number by draft day....

You responded to this by completely dismissing my point about the 80-man roster and by pompously declaring (seems to be a trait of yours)....
:

53 is your roster, not 80.

...... and then demanding an explanation about vacancies on the 53-man roster. Obviously, that pissed me off and this was certainly reflected in the tone/language of my explanation of why I think the 80-man offseason roster (what I was originally discussing) and the likely vacancies on it are important wrt the draft and how many picks might be reasonably made.

Your response:

I'd suggest you better stick to watching SpongeBob Squarepants as a 3yr old than trying to figure out football.

Followed by a reiteration (IN ALL CAPS!!!!!!) of your demand that I respond to your question about the 53-man roster, as if somehow I had originally been making some wild claim about the 53-man roster without justifying it.

Now, I could do just that, but I see that subsequent posters have already pretty much made the same points that I would and, quite frankly, I'm weary of dealing with your attitude. In the past, you've posted some very good factual info and some interesting observations and I will continue to read your posts for those things, but I won't be responding anymore. I really have a low tolerance for being anyone's personal punching bag. You, of course, remain free to comment on anything that I post, just don't expect me to be getting back to you with any particular urgency.
 
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YouTube - Justin Blackmon vs. Prince Amukamara (2010)

I don't get the hype. I watch this and I see toast rather than a Top 15 pick in the NFL draft.

Blackmon is just a beast. Ahead of Amukamara at this point. You can tell he will be mentioned with the likes of CJohnson and Fitzgerald someday, everything about him translates to the NFL. Amukamara although beat, is still a very good CB, worthy of a 1st round grade. I'm not going to base toast on a flea flicker and a push off on the 37 yd jump ball td. Basically he allowed 4 catches 130 2 tds.The last td was allowed by some other dude. Not a good day by any means. But if you look at the whole tape you will see he had some good coverage that day as well. He certainly has some things he can improve upon.

I still don't think he is a need at this point. If the Jets don't go DT I could see them trying to trade up for him to replace Cromartie.
 
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Prince should have at least been competitive against him though.

He gave up four catches, one being on a flea-flicker, to perhaps the best receiver in college football. Not sure how this means his career is over.
 
Blackmon is just a beast. Ahead of Amukamara at this point. You can tell he will be mentioned with the likes of CJohnson and Fitzgerald someday, everything about him translates to the NFL. Amukamara although beat, is still a very good CB, worthy of a 1st round grade. I'm not going to base toast on a flea flicker and a push off on the 37 yd jump ball td. Basically he allowed 4 catches 130 2 tds.The last td was allowed by some other dude. Not a good day by any means. But if you look at the whole tape you will see he had some good coverage that day as well. He certainly has some things he can improve upon.

I still don't think he is a need at this point. If the Jets don't go DT I could see them trying to trade up for him to replace Cromartie.

Ok, I'll go with that. He got burned on 1 flea flicker and Blackmon is a beast.

The comments on the video say he will be a Cover 2 corner in the NFL and not a lockdown like Revis, etc. What does that mean? (Asking who he projects as his ceiling, Asante?)
 
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Ok, I'll go with that. He got burned on 1 flea flicker and Blackmon is a beast.

That move that Blackmon put on him on that flea flicker was awesome to watch. So yeah, he got burned by a beast on that play. How many NFL cornerbacks do you think cover that play? The play call itself was perfect, the ball was thrown well enough and the player who caught it is one of the best WR's to come out since Calvin Johnson imo


The comments on the video say he will be a Cover 2 corner in the NFL and not a lockdown like Revis, etc. What does that mean? (Asking who he projects as his ceiling, Asante?)

You never know in the draft. Noone expected McCourty to do as well as he did. Even himself according to the article yesterday. It's all a crapshoot as far as I'm concerned. You can do your homework all you want, but does he have the capacity to take in every thing you teach him? Is he willing to work as hard as McCourty in the film room and in practice?

As far as Revis/Asante being the bar? That is almost unfair to anyone coming into the league. That is quite a measuring stick to live up to. Luckily noone expected McCourty to be anywhere near Revis and by the end of the season he wasn't that far off.

Like I mentioned earlier, I would be shocked if we took him unless BB felt he was best player available. But in doing so he would have to concede that Butler is not living up to expectations and that he needs an immediate repalcement at the nickel cb. Bodden I do not think is going anywhere. He has got a 5 yr deal and the hit would be too large to release him. Plus he is really good. More likely scenario is someone likes a QB or Prince and move up with us to get that player.
 
I actually very much like the idea of adding another good cover corner. With Bodden coming back, Mc"Lock"ty, a draft pick, and Butler, that very nice CB depth. You forgot Arrington and Wilhite.

With DL depth returnining with Wright, Warren, Pryor, and already added LB in Spikes and Cunningham, I could see us trading #28 for next year pick, or trade down into Rd 2. BB won't shell $$ for 2 first Rd picks. Money is better used to sign a FA if they can pry Hali or Woodley. Don't assume that Wright will be returning. With as long as his concussion symptoms have lasted, there is a very good chance that he is done.

So,

DE/OLB , and low level WR - FA addition
#17 - CB
#28 - traded for 2012 picks
#33 - OG/Center
#60 - OT/DT
#74 - RB
#92 - DE (developmental type)

rest of the picks are crap shoot and would not be surprised of they package them to move around in the draft if they have specific player or two in mind

I don't see more than 5-6 players BB will bring onto this team from the draft.

Really? You think that only 5 -6 of the 9 draft picks will make the team? Even with the almost guaranteed roster expansion???
 
Really ? So, by that theory Vrabel's 12.5 sacks in 2007 would've meant he's was bringing same "pressure" as Mario Williams (13) or Osi U (13), Demarcus Ware (14), or Jared Allen league leading 15.5. You do realize that you are proving his point for him. His point is that we don't have an adequate measure of getting pressure onto the opposing QB since the NFL doesn't keep track of QB pressures and QB Hits.

Statistically this was an odd year for Pats as they've never been known for creating many turnovers, and on the other hand BJGE did not fumble, and Brady had an unreal streak of TD/int ratio. At the end of the day Pats again were putting up 30+ points a game and opponents had to throw o play catchup, which will result in more opportunities for INT. The Pats, from 2005-2009, averaged 16.6 Interceptions and 16 forced fumbles. From 2001 - 2004, They averaged 22.25 Interceptions and 17.75 forced fumbles.

Furthermore, secondary was viewed as "weak spot" by opponents, and they lucky for us McCourty stepped up like he did, else your're back to avg int #'s past 5 yrs. Past few years Pats have averaged 14-18 int's/ yr, and there was a huge dropoff after Asante left.

Umm.. No, there wasn't a huge drop-off after Asante left. Here are the numbers from 2005-2009.

2004 - 20 ints <---- Ty Law's last year
2005 - 10 Ints <--- Samuel starter in his 3rd year
2006 - 22 Ints
2007 - 19 ints
2008 - 14 ints <---- Samuel left.
2009 - 18 ints

I think it's fairly safe to say that losing Ty Law hurt the Pats more than losing Asante Samuel. And Samuel wasn't near the "shutdown corner" that Law was.

Also, it wasn't just McCourty who stepped up. Arrington stepped up. As did James Sanders and Pat Chung.
 
53 is your roster, not 80. Outside of RB, OL, DL and maybe WR(already have two young ones in Tate and Price), where are the open spots ???? QB ? TE ? K, P ? LB ? CB ? S ?....8 players made the team and layed for Pats from 2010 draft. Expecting another 7-8 to draft (just for competition and then cut ?)or make it, resulting in 1/3 of your team with less than 2 yrs experience ?????? wow, just wow - BB is good, but not a miracle worker.

Some of these 2011 picks are better value in future years with FA departures expected from team

80 is the training camp roster. 53 is the current roster, though it will probably be expanding to 57 or 60 with the new CBA and the 18 game schedule.

I have news for you, this year's team had more than 1/3 of it with less than 2 years experience. McCourty, Price, Love, Deaderick, Mesko, Hernandez, Gronkowski, Cunningham, Fletcher, Spikes, Tate, Edelman,Chung, Hoyer, Vollmer, Arrington, Butler, Brace, Ohrnberger, Pryor. And that doesn't include Sergio Brown, Tyrone Carter, Tyrone McKenzie or Jake Ingram. Or any of the guys on the IR.

20/53 had less than 2 years experience. More than a third. Now, for them to keep that more than a 1/3, they'd have to add 10 guys onto the main roster who are rookies or UDFA. Could they add another 10 players who are rookiew/UDFA?? Yep. It could happen. Especially if the rosters are expanded to 57 or even 60.
 
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1) There are at least 12 open roster spots: 3 RB, 3 OL, 1 WR, 2 DL, 2 LB, 1 DB and even 1 QB to make the total 13 (we could carry 3)

2) If your point is that only 4-5 draftees are likely to make the 53-man roster, you have a strange way of making the point. You seem to think that if we believe that only 5 draftes make the final 53, then we should only draft 4-5 players. Besides, the final roster under the new CBA will almost assuredy increase, probably to 56.

3) Finally, you seem to including the Practice Squad. In that case there are 19 open roster spots. It is indeed reasonable to use late round picks for Practice Squad players.

12 + 8 = 20 by most math. :D

And with the roster expansion, there could be another 3-7 spots open.
 
Blackmon is just a beast. Ahead of Amukamara at this point. You can tell he will be mentioned with the likes of CJohnson and Fitzgerald someday, everything about him translates to the NFL. Amukamara although beat, is still a very good CB, worthy of a 1st round grade. I'm not going to base toast on a flea flicker and a push off on the 37 yd jump ball td. Basically he allowed 4 catches 130 2 tds.The last td was allowed by some other dude. Not a good day by any means. But if you look at the whole tape you will see he had some good coverage that day as well. He certainly has some things he can improve upon.

I still don't think he is a need at this point. If the Jets don't go DT I could see them trying to trade up for him to replace Cromartie.

Is it just me or does it seem like change of direction is a bit of a challenge for the Nebraska CB in these videos?

BB favors uber quick, super change of direction DB's. I am thinking more along the lines of Harris of Miami or Burney of UNC or Gilchrist of Clemson than Peterson or Prince.
 
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