Interesting Article - "The Truth About The Patriots Pass Rush"

The Truth About The Patriots Pass Rush - Pats Pulpit
Greetings,
Interesting article from patspulput.com, backed by stats.

In fact, the Patriots dynasty defenses commonly had sack leaders around 7.5 to 9.5.

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Adding one outside linebacker is really not the end-all answer to the Patriots pass rush struggles. The answer is getting 1-3 sacks from more of their situational pass rushers, as well as the defensive lineman.

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Peace,
Celticboy04

Re: From Patspulput.com:"The Truth About The Patriots Pass Rush"

He seems to make a similar mistake in dismissing the idea just because it wasn't done in the past.

Sure, it would be nice to get better pressure from the existing guys, but you can't just snap your fingers and make that happen. We used to get better pressure just from our linemen, imo -- but that's because we had Ty Warren and Richard Seymour along w/Wilfork instead of the shuffling we had this year (due largely to injuries).

It's certainly fair to say that an altenative -- perhaps a better alternative -- would be to focus on continuing to add higher caliber linemen and LBs rather than just a rush specialist, but that doesn't mean the latter wouldn't improve the defense as well.

Re: From Patspulput.com:"The Truth About The Patriots Pass Rush"

This article was done before the season, and it's interesting to look at it in hindsight. Turns out, the Pats do actually need a good pass-rusher. They say that a team needs somebody near 10 sacks plus two more guys at 5+, so the top 3 combine for 20 sacks. The problem was that, while they got more sacks than each of the last two seasons (36 vs 31), they didn't have the one guy with more than 9. In fact, Mike Wright led the team (in 2/3 of a season) with 5.5 sacks. TBC was second with 5 and Ninkovich was 3rd with 4. That adds up to 14.5, easily shy of 20.

It does show how close the team is, though. The team just needs one guy with more than 9, two more over 5, and a total of 40+ to correlate with what has been a very good pass rush in the past. If Cunningham can be that guy (he could have easily had 8 sacks this season if he could tackle), then the other OLBs don't need to be elite, they just need to do their part toward getting to 40.

The 2003 defense provides an attainable blueprint for the 2010 Pats. In that year they had eleven players with three or fewer sacks, for a total of 18 sacks.

By comparison the 2009 Pats had just seven players with three or fewer, for a total of 11. It is this difference of 7 sacks that separates this current Patriots defense from where they want to be.

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The 2010 Pats had 10 players with .5 to 3 sacks, for a total of 16. That's not far off from 2003 at all. The key difference was that there was no Vrabel with 9.5.

Also worth mentioning, the Pats got 23 sacks over the second half of the season. The ability is definitely there, and a complete overhaul at OLB isn't needed, just a #1 (Cunningham/rookie) to emerge as an "about-10" sack guy and the sack numbers would be on par with 2003 and 2004.

Re: From Patspulput.com:"The Truth About The Patriots Pass Rush"

We need disruptive pass rushers if we ever plan to get off the field on 3rd downs next year. It was pitiful that we were hoping Wright, Pryor, and Moore would save us in the Playoffs. If they played for another team we would never give them a second thought.

Folks are overlooking the run defense aspect and it's impact. From 2001-2004, the run D was outstanding in stopping short yardage and and 3rd and less than 3. That is no longer the case. Because it is no longer the case, teams are no longer put in "must pass" scenarios and can now run or pass which slows down the pass rush.

Many problems would be solved with a 3-4 DE who can be stout vs the run and attract double teams. Throw in someone that can set the edge and rush the passer and this team is back in the SB.

All the other pieces are there.

TBC was just awful - replace him someone even decent and that's a marked improvement overall

Horace's Ivories said:

TBC was just awful - replace him someone even decent and that's a marked improvement overall

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As a specialist, he led the team in sacks and Qb pressures. He is not the problem. He is a very good backup but people think he should be Rosey Colvin.

I would have liked to see it taking a step further and looked at each sack..

I am wondering if sacs and pas rush are more of a situational thing..

Timing..

or how about comparing sacs and 3rd down conversions.. a sack on 2nd down and stopping a 3rd and 8 or more is crucial.. if you dont make the stop the sac is pointless and you lose momentum..

robertweathers said:

As a specialist, he led the team in sacks and Qb pressures. He is not the problem. He is a very good backup but people think he should be Rosey Colvin.

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He's a backup pass rush specialist. You can't sugarcoat that.

MustaphaM0nd said:

He's a backup pass rush specialist. You can't sugarcoat that.

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He sucks but the question is how hard/expensive will it be to get somebody who's likely to be better (I think the answer is, harder than you'd think-pass rushers are pretty rare and pretty expensive) and is that the best way to improve the team? If you can either draft McCourty 2.0, Mankins 2.0, or Jerry Hughes 2.0, wouldn't you take McCourty or Mankins and not a ****ty pass rusher even though it's a big need?

I have the opinion that TBC wasn't the guy the Patriots and Belichick wanted to fill the void, but he was an option (given he was a free agent) that could grow into the role (considering he was versed in the defense). In fact, the defense seems to have a number of "band aids" that are playing well, but aren't the "end all, be all" to solve the pass rush issues the Patriots have been in.

The one thing the Patriots seemed to have in the Dynasty years was consistency. Mayo is going on his third year and is the most vetted Patriots, not including linemen Ty Warren and Vince Wilfork (correct me if I'm wrong). While some additional years are needed for these guys, a better "band aid" (maybe plural) would be nice to push this team over the edge.

Re: From Patspulput.com:"The Truth About The Patriots Pass Rush"

javajunky said:

We need disruptive pass rushers if we ever plan to get off the field on 3rd downs next year. It was pitiful that we were hoping Wright, Pryor, and Moore would save us in the Playoffs. If they played for another team we would never give them a second thought.

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Right - though its overly simplistic to say sacks = good defense

Sacks are an indicator - not a cure all

Re: From Patspulput.com:"The Truth About The Patriots Pass Rush"

While I agree that we need effective-disruptive pass rushers on this team. What rarely get's mentioned is the injuries because the Pats don't get that kind of respect or excuses rather, from the media. It is reserved for teams like the Colts and Steelers.

This team was #1 or 2 in takeaways. This was without 2 defensive stars in Bodden and Warren. I will leave them out of the equation because they really werent part of the 10 season. After the Bills 1st game this team started to make some real strides defensively all the way up to the end of the season where anyone could see the improvement from game 1. Our defensive line was decimated by the time we played the Jets in the playoffs. Who did we even start? Wilfork,Love, Warren and Deidrick? Not sure, but I do know that had we had Wright,Brace and Pryor there would of been a lot more depth and some fresh bodies to attack Sanchez with. Wright is not what we call an ideal pass rusher but he did lead the line with 5.5 sacks before going on ir.

Injuries were a big part of ending the season. With a even reasonably healthy team we are playing Sunday. But injury excuses are for losers. When and if they add pass rushers it would be nice to get off the field more on 3rd downs. I think the future is ok

BB has been waiting for the next Willie McGinest for years now. Signing Adalius Thomas and drafting only Crabel in 3+ years (plus sticking with him to see if he would pan out for so long) seems to bear that out.

A guy like Willie doesn't come along often and BB has been patient and would probably never risk moving up enough to get a guy like that (assuming he's out there). BB is going to finally have to capitulate, tweak his base scheme and get a beast pass rusher with a non-stop motor (Clay Mathews type). Patriots have been one of the worst teams in the league at pressuring the QB and we've made scrub QBs look like HOFers in recent years.

Everyone talks about Tom Brady, but the Dynasty was built upon an intimidating, havoc-wreeking defenses.

The Steelers have rush linebackers and they got torched by the patriots when their tight ends ran around him. Harrison cant cover anyone, he only knows how to rush the passer.

The Patriots are looking for someone who can cover and set the edge first and rush second, in the patriots scheme they rarely blitz and mostly rely on the rush from their defensive line, a line which was severely depleted by the end of the year (and since the beginning with Ty Warren on IR).

look at what the jets did to tom brady in the playoffs, they rushed 3 and occasionally blitzed a DB, the patriots are one of the best O-lines in the league and they got Embarassed, this is how the patriots want to play defense, they want to get pressure with their DL and play coverage to confuse and capitalize, thats how they beat Peyton manning and you arent going to have to confuse anyone better than him.

Anyway, the first pick will be a DE who can play the 5 technique, Wilfork, Warren and all of the depth the patriots would make for a very versatile DL, maybe the best in the league.

Look at this somewhat different, as much as everyone loves a "sexy" pass rusher, and upgrade would be nice, but not as important as a really great playmaking secondary.

We have a nice foundation there, but can always use improvement.

Statistics show that when a team is intercepted their chance of loosing goes down by 20%, conversely a team who intercepts their chance of winning goes up by 20%..

This D needs more playmakers, and that could come from a variety of positions, not only from DE's or OLB's....

DarrylS said:

This D needs more playmakers, and that could come from a variety of positions, not only from DE's or OLB's....

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Don't you think the New England Patriots have spent enough draft picks on cornerbacks the last three years:

2008 NFL Draft
Wheatley - 2nd Round
Wilhite - 4th Round

2009 NFL Draft
Butler - 2nd Round

2010 NFL Draft
McCourty - 1st Round

While the New England Patriots have drafted four cornerbacks in the first four rounds since 2008, the New England Patriots have only drafted two 3-4 outside linebackers (Crable, Cunningham) in the same time frame.

ATippett56 said:

Don't you think the New England Patriots have spent enough draft picks on cornerbacks the last three years:

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I hate this argument. I don't care if we've spent our last fifty picks on corners-if the best pick you can make this year is another corner, then draft a corner.

That said, they don't really need a corner right now, while they definitely need better OLBs, some beef along both lines, a running back or two and-depending on how good BB feels about Price and Tate-another wideout.

I could see them drafting a safety faily high to supplement and eventually replace BMW.

ATippett56 said:

Don't you think the New England Patriots have spent enough draft picks on cornerbacks the last three years:

2008 NFL Draft
Wheatley - 2nd Round
Wilhite - 4th Round

2009 NFL Draft
Butler - 2nd Round

2010 NFL Draft
McCourty - 1st Round

While the New England Patriots have drafted four cornerbacks in the first four rounds since 2008, the New England Patriots have only drafted two 3-4 outside linebackers (Crable, Cunningham) in the same time frame.

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A better question is how many of these are playmakers??? The stats on interceptions are telling.

Shelterdog said:

I hate this argument. I don't care if we've spent our last fifty picks on corners-if the best pick you can make this year is another corner, then draft a corner.

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It's called priorities and the New England Patriots should be set at the starting cornerback position for 2011 with McCourty at left cornerback and Bodden at right cornerback. Meanwhile on the defensive side of the ball, there are major holes at the right defensive end position and outside linebacker. The New England Patriots need to draft a three down 3-4 defensive end who has the ability to rush the passer in the first round of the 2011 NFL Draft.