Improve The defense

patsfaninpittsburgh said:

This "analysis" is absolutely absurd.

If you want to be helpful compare the 2010 defense to the late 1990's teams.

In the dynasty, the core players were already 5/6/7/8 year vets.

It's completely idiotic to compare rookies and second year players to experienced personnel in their prime who had been playing together for years.

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Did the late 90's team win a super bowl?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't our expectations to win one? I was comparing this defense to the last Patriot defense that did.

patsfan55 said:

Did the late 90's team win a super bowl?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't our expectations to win one? I was comparing this defense to the last Patriot defense that did.

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I understand the disappointment of 2010. However, the reality is this defense was very young. Besides,
2010 is over and ya have to project out.

Rookies and inexperienced players are not experienced players because they don't the experience that experienced players have.

If it's your opinion that these guys will not develop, point noted and it's certainly possible that is correct.

patsfan55 said:

Let's take a look at the 2003/2004 combined defense vs the defense that would start 2011 season

de-Seymour vs Warren (BIG downgrade)
dt-Wash/Traylor/Wilfork vs Wilfork (decent upgrade)
de-Warren vs Brace (slight downgrade)
olb-Willie vs Cunningham (ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?)
ilb-Bruschi vs Mayo (this one's tough, I love Mayo, but man Bru was such a big playmaker in key situations)
ilb-Ted Johnson vs Spikes (close to a wash)
olb-Vrabel vs Ninkovich (ugh, especially setting the edge..just ugh)
cb-Law vs McCourty (see Spikes, these guys could be clones of their predecessors)
s-Rodney vs Meriweather (hold on while I clean the puke from my computer)
s-Geno vs Chung/Sanders (heeyyyy we have an upgrade...woohoo! super bowl here we co..wait)
cb-Asante vs Bodden (wash..Asante was still erratic then)

So, yeah unfortunately we're not even close to those defenses. I hadn't really truly accepted that fact until yesterday, but it's true

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Are you comparing "veteran" Vrabel vs Ninkovich (1st year fulltime at OLB)? Really not a huge difference between 1st-year Vrabel and 1st-year Ninkovich.

Rodney (as a veteran) played more of a SS/FS role, it seems to me. Better comparison might be Rodney to Sanders. Meriweather is more a pure deep-centerfield type.

Asante v Bodden is comparing a shutdown LCB who still can't tackle vs. a top-10 RCB who plays the run like a SS. Better comparison would be Asante to McCourty - and McCourty actually makes tackles.

Box_O_Rocks said:

... there are a few trends that have emerged from the New England Patriots' past three postseason games.

In all three cases, a potent offense was left scrambling for points.

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Box, the defense deserves plenty of blame about the loss to Jets. When the Offense finally got their heads out of their asses and brought the game within 3 at the end of the 4th quarter, it was the Defenses job to go out and force a punt to keep the momentum going and give your offense a real chance. What does the defense do? It goes out there and gives up a 5 play 75 yard TD drive. We talk about the offense not coming through in the clutch in the last 3 playoff games but the fact is the defense had Eli on their grasp and they let him go. They dropped 2 INTs that would have clinched it. They gave up a TD on the first play to Rice. And when they needed to force a punt and had good field position they gagged.

I thought the offense and defense played well to start the game but Tom made one of the worst mistakes in his career to end the first drive. Then the second drive Alge (who has barely been involved in the passing game all season) drops an easy TD. They settle for 3 points. So the 2 drives that you had worked and scripted for the previous 2 weeks are out of the window and you have 3 points to show for them and an opponent who is growing in confidence with every missed opportunity.
The bottom line for this season was that we were relying on the defense to create turn overs in order to stop other teams and when that didn't happen we needed the offense to put up a ton of points. You can win a SB that way but the margin for error is very low.

Major ********** said:

Box, the defense deserves plenty of blame about the loss to Jets. When the Offense finally got their heads out of their asses and brought the game within 3 at the end of the 4th quarter, it was the Defenses job to go out and force a punt to keep the momentum going and give your offense a real chance. What does the defense do? It goes out there and gives up a 5 play 75 yard TD drive. We talk about the offense not coming through in the clutch in the last 3 playoff games but the fact is the defense had Eli on their grasp and they let him go. They dropped 2 INTs that would have clinched it. They gave up a TD on the first play to Rice. And when they needed to force a punt and had good field position they gagged.

I thought the offense and defense played well to start the game but Tom made one of the worst mistakes in his career to end the first drive. Then the second drive Alge (who has barely been involved in the passing game all season) drops an easy TD. They settle for 3 points. So the 2 drives that you had worked and scripted for the previous 2 weeks are out of the window and you have 3 points to show for them and an opponent who is growing in confidence with every missed opportunity.
The bottom line for this season was that we were relying on the defense to create turn overs in order to stop other teams and when that didn't happen we needed the offense to put up a ton of points. You can win a SB that way but the margin for error is very low.

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Sure the defense needs some work, I'm not arguing against upgrades and trying to build a true championship D. However, the D lost a number of key players to end the season, I'm sure if anyone cared to check the snap count the defense had been on the field way too long by the fourth quarter. Brady lost his poise, his fellow O players started melting down on the field, and by the time they started getting their act together the defense was exhausted. I expect to see upgrade attempts on the DL, at OLB, and reserve DB, but the Offense is where some change needs to develop ... and if there is a lockout or a delay in the offseason program I'm concerned the O may not be playing it's best to begin the season.

Box_O_Rocks said:

Sure the defense needs some work, I'm not arguing against upgrades and trying to build a true championship D. However, the D lost a number of key players to end the season, I'm sure if anyone cared to check the snap count the defense had been on the field way too long by the fourth quarter. Brady lost his poise, his fellow O players started melting down on the field, and by the time they started getting their act together the defense was exhausted. I expect to see upgrade attempts on the DL, at OLB, and reserve DB, but the Offense is where some change needs to develop ... and if there is a lockout or a delay in the offseason program I'm concerned the O may not be playing it's best to begin the season.

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Offense definately needs some upgrades too. It's so close to being set but it will take valuable draft picks to fix. We know QB and TE are rock solid as well a 3rd down back. We have good wr's but we do need one who can get ugly physical with someone like Revis. Good luck with that. We have a solid RB in Ben Jarvus but most want more. I think he satifies for now but we certainly need a viable backup.

The O-line on it's own is somewhere between ok and a complete disaster. Koppen is great against guys his size but struggles against elite oversized DT's. It just happens our last 3 playoff games he's ran into them. Connoly kind of in the same boat regarding large lineman.
Light is very near the end, Mankins seems to struggle when Koppen does. Neal and Kaczur are also at a choice in there profession. This is a big problem and has to be addressed. They arent built to win in the playoffs. They've allowed 13 sacks in 3 playoff games. God knows how many pressures.. We have to come out of this draft with 2 quality lineman unless BB decides to go the free agent route which I doubt he will.

On the flipside defensive parrarel universe. We have 0 sacks in our last 3 playoff games. 0 knockdowns in our last 3 playoff games. They need to improve this too if they are to go farther into the playoffs. If they do, this 3rd down bs goes away in a hurry with McCourty and Bodden patrolling the backfield.

They are fortunate to have all these draft picks because they really can't afford to miss.

I'd still like to believe that our biggest failure on offense against the Jets was play calling and failure to make adjustments. I don't think we have to go out and change a ton of personnel (obviously the offensive line has a lot still to be worked out), but hopefully BOB can continue to improve. It seemed like we went back to the style of play when we had Moss, instead of spreading the ball around, using our TEs and pounding the ball with BJGE. Branch and Welker were really struggling against Cromartie and Revis, yet we kept going that route. He must have been more injured than they let on, because I'm not sure why we wouldn't use a 6'2 245 lb weapon with 4.6 speed. Line him up at WR and see if they don't get worried about a deep threat. Then have him punish Revis play after play as we run the ball right at him. Hernandez, and Gronkowski for that matter, really needed to be more involved.

nickw308810 said:

I'd still like to believe that our biggest failure on offense against the Jets was play calling and failure to make adjustments. I don't think we have to go out and change a ton of personnel (obviously the offensive line has a lot still to be worked out), but hopefully BOB can continue to improve. It seemed like we went back to the style of play when we had Moss, instead of spreading the ball around, using our TEs and pounding the ball with BJGE. Branch and Welker were really struggling against Cromartie and Revis, yet we kept going that route. He must have been more injured than they let on, because I'm not sure why we wouldn't use a 6'2 245 lb weapon with 4.6 speed. Line him up at WR and see if they don't get worried about a deep threat. Then have him punish Revis play after play as we run the ball right at him. Hernandez, and Gronkowski for that matter, really needed to be more involved.

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The good thing is they found the wrinkle with the Te's. Bad thing it wan't until the 4th quarter that they got involved. You are right the playcalling was bad and adjustments will be made. It's nice that they have more film on the Jets because they can only disguise their coverages for so long again Brady and company before they figure it out.

I will say this, our defense hasn't even begun to peak yet, where as I think the Jets is starting to decline.

Box_O_Rocks said:

Odd, I was under the impression the defense kept the game close despite the offense & KR team, and the PR team on that fake punt fiasco, leaving them short fields to defend.

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The offense was horrendous yes. But aside from the first big defensive series after Brady's INT, the defense was terrible in the red zone, allowing touchdowns to the Jets offense each time instead of holding them to FGs.

For example after Brady led the Pats to within 3 points of the Jets in the 2nd half, the momentum was starting to shift back to the Pats. However the defense immediately surrended a touchdown on the ensuing drive. If they had held the Jets to 3, it's only a 6 point difference and a 1 possession game, a game that we likely could have won. So yes the offense was more at fault for the loss if you are assigning blame, but the defense still didn't look good. Particularly not on 3rd downs.