Should Ben TheRapist be called an elite QB?

ivanvamp said:

Yes, Ben is right there in the top group. Tough SOB and makes big plays in big spots. But the Steelers win because of their defense. Look at their years since 2001:

Year: record, Def Rank (pts), Def Rank (yds), Result
2001: 13-3, #3 pts, #1 yds, lost in AFC Championship game (to NE)
2002: 10-5-1, #16 pts, #7 yds, lost in divisional round
2003: 6-10, #15 pts, #9 yds, missed playoffs
2004: 15-1, #1 pts, #1 yds, lost in AFC Championship game (to NE)
2005: 11-5, #3 pts, #4 yds, won Super Bowl
2006: 8-8, #11 pts, #9 yds, missed playoffs
2007: 10-6, #2 pts, #1 yds, lost in wild card round
2008: 12-4, #1 pts, #1 yds, won Super Bowl
2009: 9-7, #12 pts, #5 yds, missed playoffs
2010: 12-4, #1 pts, #2 yds, have advanced to the Super Bowl

So their best years (2001, 2004, 2005, 2008, 2010) they had essentially the best defense in the league. When their D slipped (never to a bad level, but just to a merely "good" level), they didn't do a heck of a lot.

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SanAngeloState said:

He's a lot more elite than Brady. Brady is great but then in the big game choked...or something. Still need an explanation for how sulky he seemed (esp. after the interception) before I root for this team again. I don't like getting my heart broken.

Roethlisberger is hard to bring down, can move a little (even with a bad foot) and has a great deep ball. He's elite.

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PittPatriot said:

Agreed. It still burns me that WE could not do it a week earlier.

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goheels22002 said:

Big Ben took care of business late in the game against the Jets last night going to a pass on 3rd and six to get a first down and ice the AFC Championship game. He's in the 2011 SB and has 2 SB wins under his belt. He's in this discussion for certain.

Is Roethlisberger "elite" on par with guys like Elway, Marino, Aikman, Montana, Brady, Manning, Unitas, Staubach, etc? I don't think so. Setting aside the off-the-field stuff that should delay or prevent HOF election, I think about Roethlisberger in the same group as guys like Jim McMahon, Phil Simms, Terry Bradshaw, Eli Manning, Joe Theissman, etc. who won SB's but were not the #1 reason why they were there or won those particular games.

What he does in this SB will be a big deal in whether he gets consideration in the elite group. If he has a monster day, he's up there. If he stumbles and bumbles along but the defense and Mendenhall carry the water in a win, he stays in the second tier.

If he throws INTs, fumbles and loses in a blowout followed by a night of partying and an arrest for having sex with a Cheesehead in a men's bathroom stall, he becomes a pariah and should be shipped to Oakland to spiral downward and out of the NFL. (One can dream, right?)

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PittPatriot said:

Well, if we use "monster day" on Super Bowl Sunday as a factor, how many of those has Brady had in his 4 visits to the big game?

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Dino 6 Rings said:

Here are Ben's actual career stat rankings:
78th all time for Passing Yards. Active players with more yards are Favre (retiring?) Manning, Kerry Collins, McNabb, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Mark Brunell, John Kitna, Matt Hasselbeck, Carson Palmer and Eli Manning.

79th all time in Passing TDs. Active player with more TDs are Favre, Manning, Brady, Brees, McNabb, Kerry Collins, Brunell, Hasselbeck, Kitna, Eli Manning, Palmer.

So those are his "bad" career stats. So then, you ask, in the game right now, is he better than any of those guys? I'll give you Tom, and Payton...no doubt...but then, McNabb? Brees? Collins? Brunell? Hasselbeck? Kitna? Palmer and Eli? Do you consider those guys "better than Ben"?

Career Passer Rating, 8th on the list. Behind active players, Rodgers, Rivers, Romo, Brady, Manning...

Passing Yard per Game, 17th on the List, behind active players, Manning, Brees, Brady, Favre, Rodgers, Cutler, Rivers, Palmer.

Yards per Attempt, tied for 4th on the list with 2 other active players, Romo and Rivers.

My feelings are, when you hear "elite" do you mean All Time? Montana, Marino, Elway, Favre Elite? Or do you mean playing now?

If you mean All Time...No, he's not there yet, but if the question is, "Is Ben one of the elite QBs playing in the game right now" Well, look at the stats above, who he's behind on the Active Rosters and decide for yourself. I think, because of his wins in big games (except when we play the Pats) he's in the discussion as a current "elite" QB. Not top 1 or 2, but if he's not #3...who is? The one time winner Brees? The never been there Rivers? The Playoff Choker McNabb? Carson I wanted traded Palmer?

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goheels22002 said:

Monster Day in the SB for Big Ben would be something like: win the game + no INTs + some combination of 3 TDs (running or passing) + 275 or more yards. A Monster Day would be something on the order of what Brady was doing down the stretch in the regular season. If Ben's performance is one of the two top reasons why the Steelers beat the Packers, it would be huge for him to be considered in the top QB mix.

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goheels22002 said:

I don't consider Favre elite among QBs - just a longevity statistical pain in our collective asses. Elite for me means a guys you want in the playoffs who gives you the best chance to win the whole enchilada. I'd take Big Ben over Favre in a minute. Favre, you just knew, was going to end the season with a turnover. Big Ben gets it done somehow.

If you had to choose between Terry Bradshaw and Brett Favre at their primes to QB your team through the playoffs, who do you take?

Comapring Ben to Brees, Rivers, McNabb and Palmer is interesting. All five of those guys are good. Palmer is a mess and got condemned to a terrible, flawed franchise. Rivers is great but got stuck with SD which has some sort of weird loserville curse. SD always looks great but then plays not to lose in the image of their head coaches. Put Rivers on the Ravens and....

McNabb, Ben and Brees have all gotten to the SB. If I had to take one at his prime, I'd take......Brees. He reads defenses and relies more on excellent decision making and accuracy and less on his size and strength to battle through adversity. If NO bounces back from their injuries and does well in the draft, the Saints will be a force next year and beyond.

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SanAngeloState said:

He's a lot more elite than Brady. Brady is great but then in the big game choked...or something. Still need an explanation for how sulky he seemed (esp. after the interception) before I root for this team again. I don't like getting my heart broken.

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ausbacker said:

I don't think you should be calling him a rapist given he wasn't convicted of anything. If you added alleged...

It's quite poor taste to be honest.

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GrogansArmy said:

GFY. I'm guessing you weren't around before Brady.

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PittPatriot said:

I don't think it is fair to compare Brady's reg season stats (which are better than he himself has had in the postseason) to Ben's postseason.
The 2 QB's have incredible postseason records and almost identical QB Passer Ratings (85).
One can make the argument that both Brady and Ben are very similar in the postseason (when it counts?).

OT: Who was the more elite college player, JJ Redick or PsychoT? If Dook wins the NC this year, do you think Kyle Singler is a more elite college player than Tyler was?

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ausbacker said:

Top answer. Kinda reinforces you as the ******** that I think you are.

Facts would have supported a conviction because they could have been proven in court.

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tuckeverlasting said:

bottom line is he's a decent game manager, not an elite qb. the only time i see pitt in the sb is either when brady gets injured or someone knocks us out before we get to pittsburgh and there's a big sigh of relief there.

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