Anyone Who Criticizes the Coaches is a Moron

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I blame special teams mostly, and that's Pat Chung. But, beyond that, the Patriots D has to get to the place where, when a sputtering offense makes the score 14-11, the D needs to make a stop.

The old D would have. I'm not blasting the D, they played well. It's OK to say they don't have the horses yet, especially a pass rush. In the past, the Pats O has similarly sputtered, but the D picked them up.

Think of all the sputtering offense games, Raiders 01, Steelers 01, Rams 01, Titans 03, Chargers 06, Chargers 07.

Special teams and defense picked them up and made the difference.

Patriots just need more players.

Yesterday, despite sputtering, the Pats could have won when the score was 14-11.

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Its hard to blame the D when the Jets averaged starting on the 45 yard line. The jets never got more than 2 first downs in any possesion. The Special teams was bad, Ghost will correct some of that when hes back next year.
A lot of young guys got some experience with this game so we can take that out of it, add a few pieces next year and hope for better execution come playoffs.

cmasspatsfan said:

Its hard to blame the D when the Jets averaged starting on the 45 yard line. The jets never got more than 2 first downs in any possesion. The Special teams was bad, Ghost will correct some of that when hes back next year.
A lot of young guys got some experience with this game so we can take that out of it, add a few pieces next year and hope for better execution come playoffs.

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How many 40+ yard plays had the defense yielded this year before Cotchery toasted it?


The defense played its part in the loss.

ausbacker said:

For some reason it's sexy to hang on the defense rather than admit it was a failure of the entire Patriots system yesterday. That's what is griping me with the conduct of some people here using the I told you so mentality.

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yep. I also find it interesting that tho you were beat by a good team, not great, we were beat by a clearly mediocre team, but no one is calling for Breeses/Paytons head in our forums.

pherein said:

yep. I also find it interesting that tho you were beat by a good team, not great, we were beat by a clearly mediocre team, but no one is calling for Breeses/Paytons head in our forums.

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welcome to our board

Bottom line, offense sucked, defense was what we expected, and the coaching left us (again) scratching our heads. If a team is dropping everyone into coverage, then why not run the ball? Why not create pressure on a QB thats known for making mistakes under pressure? Why fake a punt in that situation? Why would you huddle up after every play, killing the clock, against a defense thats been giving you trouble all game? They needed every second to try to score.

With that said, I still think BB is a great coach, and Brady is a great QB. We have alot of picks next year, and some defensive youth that shows potential. This team far exceeded my expectations for this year. I'm just p*ssed we had to lose to the Jets. I hate the Jets :bricks:

Deus Irae said:

How many 40+ yard plays had the defense yielded this year before Cotchery toasted it?


The defense played its part in the loss.

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I went back from week 17 to week 10 and counted 3. Since you used Greenbay's defense as an example of a unit that can step up when the offense isn't getting it done I did the same and counted 4. They also gave up a 40+ yard play against the eagles, the game you used as an example.

cmasspatsfan said:

Its hard to blame the D when the Jets averaged starting on the 45 yard line. The jets never got more than 2 first downs in any possesion. The Special teams was bad, Ghost will correct some of that when hes back next year.
A lot of young guys got some experience with this game so we can take that out of it, add a few pieces next year and hope for better execution come playoffs.

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The defense played alright. They performed fairly poorly in the redzone though which is a concern for me. Every time the Jets got into the redzone they came away with touchdowns instead of FGs. All except the drive post-Brady interception. That was a big early hold by the D. But that performance was never repeated.

The reality is that if the Pats didn't absolutely stink it up on ST and kill themselves with the fake punt attempt down only 7-3 with the half coming up, they could have easily turned around this game and won it in the second half. Because it became a 2 score game, the clock worked against the Pats in the second half. Eventually they got points on the board, but by the time they did they were forced to onsides kick twice and FAILED to recover both times.

It's really a combination of factors. As far as the defense goes. I think they need a passrusher. That is becoming painfully obvious. The corners can only cover so long and when you let an even mediocre QB like Sanchez get comfortable in the pocket he will hurt you as he did last Sunday.

The offense blocked poorly. Brady called poor pass protections. It was pretty much a mess. And the weird thing is, I think that Brady became a bit gunshy after throwing that first INT on what looked like a for sure TD drive. Losing those points off the board was huge in this game. Crumpler dropping the TD was also big because we had to settle for 3 and ended up playing from behind as soon as the Jets scored their first TD.

The field position battle on ST went badly. The Jets consistently had a short field to work with, usually starting on their own 40 or even on the Pats side of the field. There's only so much a defense can do when it is constantly under that type of pressure throughout the game.

Lastly, the hallmark of the Patriots as a team this year has been their ability to force turnovers. They did none of that in this game. They failed to attack Sanchez and force him to throw up a few airballs and pick him. The TOs were the key to this game. Brady gave up the football once on an INT. Then the Pats turned over the ball again on the fake punt attempt. That's TWO TO's in favor of the Jets.

Meanwhile Sanchez did not turn over the ball once. Those two possessions symbolize a swing of 14 points. 7 points the Pats did not put on the scoreboard in the first case, and 7 points that were given to the Jets as a result of the excellent field position in the second case.

Because this became a two score ballgame, the Patriots were unable to come back barring some kind of key turnover, which never materialized. The Pats needed one more possesion with time on the clock but because of their own mistakes, they never recovered from the lost opportunities.

RHbT76 said:

I went back from week 17 to week 10 and counted 3. Since you used Greenbay's defense as an example of a unit that can step up when the offense isn't getting it done I did the same and counted 4. They also gave up a 40+ yard play against the eagles, the game you used as an example.

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I'm not sure where I used the Green Bay defense as an example (you may have me confused with someone else), but the Patriots had given up the fewest 40+ yard plays in the league at one point late in the season. Belichick was talking about it on air with DeOssie and Co..

When a defense that's designed expressly NOT to surrender big plays like Cotchery's gives up one of those plays, and that play leads to a touchdown, you can lay some blame for the loss on that defense.


Throw in the 4 TDs in 5 'scoring' drives (the 5th was the miss by Folk and was a great job by the defense), and you've got a problem with the "bend but don't break" defense again.

Deus Irae said:

I'm not sure where I used the Green Bay defense as an example (you may have me confused with someone else), but the Patriots had given up the fewest 40+ yard plays in the league at one point late in the season. Belichick was talking about it on air with DeOssie and Co..

When a defense that's designed expressly NOT to surrender big plays like Cotchery's gives up one of those plays, you can lay some blame for the loss on that defense.

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That was basically the only big yardage play they gave up the whole game though. It's hard to blame the defense for eventually having a letdown play. The truly unfortunate part of that though was that the Pats were only behind 14-11 at that point. If the defense could have kept it to a one score game, say giving up only a FG, the game could still have been won. It's the fact that they gave up the TD on that drive that bothers me, not the fact that they gave up a solitary 40+ yard play.

Deus Irae said:

I'm not sure where I used the Green Bay defense as an example (you may have me confused with someone else), but the Patriots had given up the fewest 40+ yard plays in the league at one point late in the season. Belichick was talking about it on air with DeOssie and Co..

When a defense that's designed expressly NOT to surrender big plays like Cotchery's gives up one of those plays, and that play leads to a touchdown, you can lay some blame for the loss on that defense.


Throw in the 4 TDs in 5 'scoring' drives (the 5th was the miss by Folk and was a great job by the defense), and you've got a problem with the "bend but don't break" defense again.

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You're right, I confused you with The Dynasty, my apologies.

I won't argue that the defense shares the blame, everyone does. But the loss is seriously 75% on the offense 25% on special teams 10% on defense, almost all of which is from the Crotchery drive. 3 out of the 5 scoring drives resulted from mistakes on offense/special teams (Brady's interception, fake punt, Cromartie returning the 1st onside kick to our 20). We don't make those mistakes and the Jet's are lose by 7 or more.

On top of that the defense did a decent job of stopping the Jets offense when not put in ridiculous situations. The Jets had 1 good drive all game.

Non scoring drives

1st
NYJ 32 Punt
NWE 12 Missed FG
NYJ 40 Punt

2nd
NYJ 25 Punt

3rd
NYJ 20 Punt
NYJ 25 Punt

4th
NYJ 34 Punt

Scoring Drives

1st
None

2nd
NYJ 46 Touchdown (After Brady takes 9 yard sack and going 3 and out)
NWE 37 Touchdown (After fake punt)

3rd
NYJ 25 Touchdown (Drive w/ Crotchery's catch)

4th
NWE 20 Touchdown (Cromartie's kick return)

nashvillepatsfan said:

welcome to our board

Bottom line, offense sucked, defense was what we expected, and the coaching left us (again) scratching our heads. If a team is dropping everyone into coverage, then why not run the ball? Why not create pressure on a QB thats known for making mistakes under pressure? Why fake a punt in that situation? Why would you huddle up after every play, killing the clock, against a defense thats been giving you trouble all game? They needed every second to try to score.

With that said, I still think BB is a great coach, and Brady is a great QB. We have alot of picks next year, and some defensive youth that shows potential. This team far exceeded my expectations for this year. I'm just p*ssed we had to lose to the Jets. I hate the Jets :bricks:

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I know, the jets make it public, like the falcons do to us, thats just bad manners . We are not as eloquent as Welker. We do not talk back either. They challenged you in your house, as they made fun of us in theirs.
We won that battle
your didn't, that hurts

The fake punt was prefect, it was a good call, the players messed up. He was wide open to the left.Your D did ok, considering the short field they had to cover. Your Sp was not good.

But ya Brady messed up, not like we have not seen Brees do the same thing.
We lost 2 games off 4 pick sixes, and fumbles from Brees. The offense of both the browns/cardinals combined only scored 7pts . If we we just controlled the ball, in those 2 easy games, we would be #1 seed.
This loss is going to sting, but believe me they are not going far.

VJCPatriot said:

That was basically the only big yardage play they gave up the whole game though. It's hard to blame the defense for eventually having a letdown play. The truly unfortunate part of that though was that the Pats were only behind 14-11 at that point. If the defense could have kept it to a one score game, say giving up only a FG, the game could still have been won. It's the fact that they gave up the TD on that drive that bothers me, not the fact that they gave up a solitary 40+ yard play.

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One's a partner to the others. Long play allowed by a defense who's one main goal is to prevent the long play. Too many 3rd down conversions allowed. Too many touchdowns allowed and not enough holding the Jets to field goals. A frequent inability to stop the run, with no pressure on Sanchez.

It all comes together. Offense, defense, special teams, coaching.... it all failed.

RHbT76 said:

I went back from week 17 to week 10 and counted 3. Since you used Greenbay's defense as an example of a unit that can step up when the offense isn't getting it done I did the same and counted 4. They also gave up a 40+ yard play against the eagles, the game you used as an example.

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Yeah that was me, and all championship caliber teams have units that can step up when they need to and other units of their team struggle. It doesnt necessarily even have to be an entire game, just on opportunistic drives. This drive for the Patriots D was the first one in the 4th quarter when the Patriots just scored and cut it to a one score game. The Patriots D then allowed a 75 yard TD drive, dont blame a short field on that one. Although the offense and special teams struggled much more than the defense did, this game shows why the defense was overrated throughout the season. Its dependence on the turnover and the offense getting them leads finally caught up to them, at the worst of times.

RHbT76 said:

Take a look at the jets key drives:

2nd quarter:

Starting on our 12 after the interception the D holds them to a FG attempt which was missed.

After losing 9 yards on a sack we punt from our endzone and give the Jets the ball on their 47 resulting in a TD drive.

Chung's fake punt fiasco gives the Jets the ball on our 37. Another TD.

4th quarter:

Jets start on their 27 and move the ball easily thanks to what looks like a missed assignment on Crotchery resulting in a 58 yard gain. TD here.

Jets start on our 20 yard line after the Cromartie recovers the first onsides kick, resulting in the final Jets TD.


On almost all those drives the Jets had amazing field position because of terrible decisions by the Patriots before the defense even stepped on the field.

In between those scoring drives the defense forced the Jets to punt 6 times.

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Good points. The pain is starting to wear off. A little.

Fogbuster said:

Good points. The pain is starting to wear off. A little.

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I thought you died. Where have you been? Regardless, good to see you back.

The dynasty's whole position was that you can't rely on turnovers and that you can't consider this defense great until they consistently stop teams on 3rd down without turnovers and the offense being on-fire. I remember only because he was berated Repeatedly after the fact. Even in multiple threads.....

The reason you can't rely on turnovers is because they don't always come. The reason stopping teams on 3rd down consistently without the assistance of TO's is a better barometer is because there is a 100% chance a big 3rd down will come and plays will need to be made when a guy doesn't fumble or the QB doesn't see the LB underneath.

After all that was said during those exchanges, I will give you this aus your the only poster who was man enough to defend his position after the fact or even respond. Kudos to you my friend.

West Philly Patriot said:

The dynasty's whole position was that you can't rely on turnovers and that you can't consider this defense great until they consistently stop teams on 3rd down without turnovers and the offense being on-fire. I remember only because he was berated Repeatedly after the fact. Even in multiple threads.....

The reason you can't rely on turnovers is because they don't always come. The reason stopping teams on 3rd down consistently without the assistance of TO's is a better barometer is because there is a 100% chance a big 3rd down will come and plays will need to be made when a guy doesn't fumble or the QB doesn't see the LB underneath.

After all that was said during those exchanges, I will give you this aus your the only poster who was man enough to defend his position after the fact or even respond. Kudos to you my friend.

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Kudos? The guy still wont apologize or even admitted he was wrong. I agree he is one of the only one that has stepped up and said something, everyone else is still in hiding.

West Philly Patriot said:

The dynasty's whole position was that you can't rely on turnovers and that you can't consider this defense great until they consistently stop teams on 3rd down without turnovers and the offense being on-fire. I remember only because he was berated Repeatedly after the fact. Even in multiple threads.....

The reason you can't rely on turnovers is because they don't always come. The reason stopping teams on 3rd down consistently without the assistance of TO's is a better barometer is because there is a 100% chance a big 3rd down will come and plays will need to be made when a guy doesn't fumble or the QB doesn't see the LB underneath.

After all that was said during those exchanges, I will give you this aus your the only poster who was man enough to defend his position after the fact or even respond. Kudos to you my friend.

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The Dynasty said:

Kudos? The guy still wont apologize or even admitted he was wrong. I agree he is one of the only one that has stepped up and said something, everyone else is still in hiding.

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I've made the admission to The Dynasty that he was right about the defense not forcing a turnover. That's all he was right about given outside of one pathetic drive and some average red zone defense that they played OK and were the best unit of the three.

The Dynasty made the admission that the defense was the best unit of the three so the position about the defense costing us the game doesn't fly. It was a failure of the Patriots system, especially offense and special teams given the average starting position they were forced to defend.

2 days after the match and I am still pissed off with the game plan the team put together and the failure to adjust it to what we were being given.

ausbacker said:

I've made the admission to The Dynasty that he was right about the defense not forcing a turnover. That's all he was right about given outside of one pathetic drive and some average red zone defense that they played OK and were the best unit of the three.

The Dynasty made the admission that the defense was the best unit of the three so the position about the defense costing us the game doesn't fly. It was a failure of the Patriots system, especially offense and special teams given the average starting position they were forced to defend.

2 days after the match and I am still pissed off with the game plan the team put together and the failure to adjust it to what we were being given.

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But if the defense did everything you and others said they would do then the Patriots would have won. I was also right about the defense depending on the offense too much over the course of the season, and how it might come back to haunt them in the playoffs. The offense struggled Sunday, and the defense didnt play well enough to pick them up and still come out with the win. Failure of the system in which the defense was far too dependent on the offense.

With that being said the defense is only going to get better. They were the youngest defense in the league and had a very good season, exceeding everyones expectations. They have some outstanding playmakers who will only get better with experience. They also lost players due to injury notably Warren and Bodden. With all the high draft picks and a year of experience under their belt you can only expect the defense will be better in 2011.

The Dynasty said:

But if the defense did everything you and others said they would do then the Patriots would have won. I was also right about the defense depending on the offense too much over the course of the season, and how it might come back to haunt them in the playoffs. The offense struggled Sunday, and the defense didnt play well enough to pick them up and still come out with the win. Failure of the system in which the defense was far too dependent on the offense.

With that being said the defense is only going to get better. They were the youngest defense in the league and had a very good season, exceeding everyones expectations. They have some outstanding playmakers who will only get better with experience. They also lost players due to injury notably Warren and Bodden. With all the high draft picks and a year of experience under their belt you can only expect the defense will be better in 2011.

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The Steelers, Ravens, Jets and Packers defense wouldn't have been able to get over how poorly the offense and special teams played The Dynasty. We've seen that happen with the Chargers. You might be able to carry one average performance and have that glossed over by 2 of the 3 units. 1 unit cannot carry 2 F standard performances.

To be perfectly fair with you I gave the defense a C- and the offense and special teams F grades. That still doesn't mean I was happy with the defensive performance more I understand what underscored that performance. They played about as well as we could have expected in that situation, even though ultimately you were right with their inability to force a play when we needed it. I haven't shunned that point and have made that admission a long time ago.

ausbacker said:

It was a failure of the Patriots system, especially offense and special teams given the average starting position they were forced to defend.

2 days after the match and I am still pissed off with the game plan the team put together and the failure to adjust it to what we were being given.

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The game plan was fine but I think the second part of the last sentence is spot on. They made inadequate adjustments. But they also failed to execute well enough. There were several missed tackles, poor routes, dropped balls and my favorite, poor blocking on the OL. That's mostly on the players.

Still, if they don't make the three bad plays, they would've won. They outgained the Jets in yardage even if you discount the last drive when the Jets played a prevent D.