Anyone Who Criticizes the Coaches is a Moron

The Dynasty · Jan 17, 2011

ausbacker said:
We're not going to see eye to eye on this issue so I'm going to let you bask in your analysis of the Patriots whilst the rest of us sulk over the loss.

While I too am disappointed in the loss, I was prepared that this could happen and was not looking past the Jets. You and a lot of others sadly took the latter and looked past the Jets and overrated the Patriots regular season success

ausbacker · Jan 17, 2011

The Dynasty said:
While I too am disappointed in the loss, I was prepared that this could happen and was not looking past the Jets. You and a lot of others sadly took the latter and looked past the Jets and overrated the Patriots regular season success

I'd like you to supply the quote where I have looked past the Jets. You have no shame and make things up.

GaryfromTO · Jan 17, 2011

...and if Chung hadn't dropped the ball, and had run to daylight as there were at least 20 open yds on the side he was heading for, you would all be praising BB as a genius for that play this morning

The Dynasty · Jan 17, 2011

GaryfromTO said:
...and if Chung hadn't dropped the ball, and had run to daylight as there were at least 20 open yds on the side he was heading for, you would all be praising BB as a genius for that play this morning

No because theres no guarantee the Patriots would have even scored. They barely moved the ball and there was 2 minutes left and still would have had to go 50 yards. It was a dumb call, and changed the whole complexity of the game.

aluminum seats · Jan 17, 2011

The Dynasty said:
No because theres no guarantee the Patriots would have even scored. They barely moved the ball and there was 2 minutes left and still would have had to go 50 yards. It was a dumb call, and changed the whole complexity of the game.

The "complexity" of the game was that the Patriots were flat, getting out-hustled and outplayed. If that play worked--and the play was there, but the player dropped the ball--it's EXACTLY the kind of spark that ignites a team, crowd, etc.

The Dynasty · Jan 17, 2011

aluminum seats said:
The "complexity" of the game was that the Patriots were flat, getting out-hustled and outplayed. If that play worked--and the play was there, but the player dropped the ball--it's EXACTLY the kind of spark that ignites a team, crowd, etc.

If they punt, they go into the half 7-3 and get the ball to start the half. They score on that drive they get the lead. It wasnt like they were down 2 scores or anything. It was sort of a desperation call, it wasnt necessary.

aluminum seats · Jan 17, 2011

The Dynasty said:
If they punt, they go into the half 7-3 and get the ball to start the half. They score on that drive they get the lead. It wasnt like they were down 2 scores or anything. It was sort of a desperation call, it wasnt necessary.

Or the Jets score anyway. Punting makes a team have to move the ball 40 more yards--it's not a magic formula that automatically prevents scoring.

The Dynasty · Jan 17, 2011

aluminum seats said:
Or the Jets score anyway. Punting makes a team have to move the ball 40 more yards--it's not a magic formula that automatically prevents scoring.

The Jets would have got the ball around the 20 or 30 yard line. Do you think the Jets would have gone 70 to 80 yards in 2 minutes? Thats not the Jets style of play. In all likelihood they would have been satisfied with the 7-3 lead and just taken a knee

aluminum seats · Jan 17, 2011

The Dynasty said:
The Jets would have got the ball around the 20 or 30 yard line. Do you think the Jets would have gone 70 to 80 yards in 2 minutes? Thats not the Jets style of play. In all likelihood they would have been satisfied with the 7-3 lead and just taken a knee

I think they probably would have run out the clock; my point is we don't know.

But I think it's also very likely that if Chung doesn't drop the ball, the Pats get points before the half, and in an exciting, dynamic way that would have invigorated the team and the crowd, setting up the 2nd half well.

The Pats felt very flat last night, particularly their leader, Brady. The gamble there was a good one. Players have to execute. The play was there.

upstater1 · Jan 17, 2011

aluminum seats said:
I think they probably would have run out the clock; my point is we don't know.

But I think it's also very likely that if Chung doesn't drop the ball, the Pats get points before the half, and in an exciting, dynamic way that would have invigorated the team and the crowd, setting up the 2nd half well.

The Pats felt very flat last night, particularly their leader, Brady. The gamble there was a good one. Players have to execute. The play was there.

The play was what directly lead to them going down 14-3 at the half.

That's an unnecessary gamble.

upstater1 · Jan 17, 2011

The Dynasty said:
Another example was Bradys INT. Yes, it was bad execution, but a bad play call. You already ran a reverse 3 plays before that, why would the Jets think theyd run it again? If you wanted to call a screen just call a screen, no need to throw the fake reverse wrinkle in. It threw the whole timing off.

The Patriots have not run a straight screen in recent memory. Haven't seen one all year long.

It used to be the bread and butter play with Kevin Faulk, but that was at least half a decade ago.

Has anyone seen the Patriots run a classic screen play lately?

aluminum seats · Jan 17, 2011

upstater1 said:
The play was what directly lead to them going down 14-3 at the half.

That's an unnecessary gamble.

But you're reacting to the fact that the play wasn't executed properly. The play was there, wide open.

Let me ask this: how were the Patriots playing? What did they do in the first drive of the second half? Would you classify their play as flat?

My problem with saying it was "unnecessary" is that that judgement is based solely on the fact that the play didn't work. If it had, it would have been considered a huge turning point FOR the Pats.

upstater1 · Jan 17, 2011

aluminum seats said:
But you're reacting to the fact that the play wasn't executed properly. The play was there, wide open.

Let me ask this: how were the Patriots playing? What did they do in the first drive of the second half? Would you classify their play as flat?

My problem with saying it was "unnecessary" is that that judgement is based solely on the fact that the play didn't work. If it had, it would have been considered a huge turning point FOR the Pats.

Actually, no, I'm not reacting to the play not being run properly, I'm reacting to the play call.

If you devote all your resources to a classic screen instead of sending some guys left for the fake screen and a some guys right, then maybe the defender that got in Brady's face and caused him to loft the ball gets blocked.

EDIT: SORRY, THOUGHT YOU WERE REFERRING TO MY SCREEN POST, THOUGH CRITICISM APPLIES THERE TOO.

upstater1 · Jan 17, 2011

aluminum seats said:
But you're reacting to the fact that the play wasn't executed properly. The play was there, wide open.

Let me ask this: how were the Patriots playing? What did they do in the first drive of the second half? Would you classify their play as flat?

My problem with saying it was "unnecessary" is that that judgement is based solely on the fact that the play didn't work. If it had, it would have been considered a huge turning point FOR the Pats.

Ply the %s, situational football.

No, judgement is NOT based on the fact that it didn't work. judgement is solely based on risk/reward. Belichick called it a bad mistake, and we know he was referring to the call, not the execution.

Your comments about the Patriots' flatness is basically proving that the players were not very confident and desperate, and that Chung was doing things out of fear of the Jets.

The fact is, if you're down 7-3, the defense has to play your first series differently. they have to respect the run more, your passing game has more room.

I can't emphasize this enough: the absolute worst thing for the Patriots yesterday was going down 14-3. It blew up the entire season and all the work they did. The Jets sat back in coverage, and that was BALLGAME.

aluminum seats · Jan 17, 2011

upstater1 said:
Ply the %s, situational football.

No, judgement is NOT based on the fact that it didn't work. judgement is solely based on risk/reward. Belichick called it a bad mistake, and we know he was referring to the call, not the execution.

Your comments about the Patriots' flatness is basically proving that the players were not very confident and desperate, and that Chung was doing things out of fear of the Jets.

The fact is, if you're down 7-3, the defense has to play your first series differently. they have to respect the run more, your passing game has more room.

I can't emphasize this enough: the absolute worst thing for the Patriots yesterday was going down 14-3. It blew up the entire season and all the work they did. The Jets sat back in coverage, and that was BALLGAME.

Disagree with the bolded. I don't think the Pats being flat prove they weren't confident. A team playing flat can happen for any number of reasons. To play armchair qb, I'd put it on the Welker benching, compounded by the interception on the first drive when the Pats were ROLLING. (And man, did I HATE that streak.)

The fake punt is exactly the kind of play that turns games around. When it doesn't work, everyone says it's terrible.

Fogbuster · Jan 17, 2011

aluminum seats said:
Let me ask this: how were the Patriots playing? What did they do in the first drive of the second half? Would you classify their play as flat?

/QUOTE]

Sure, the Pats had a few moments, like the start of the 2nd half, when they were starting to look like the final 8 games of the season Pats. They started to get into a rhythm and sync, but then the Jets just pushed them out of it. The Jets began to pressure Brady again, as they had earlier with great success, and Tom/BB had no answer. It wasn't just Tom who got taken by surprise, it was BB and the entire coaching staff. They played like they were expecting the Jets to hand it to them, and when the Jets showed they came to TAKE it from the Pats, the entire Pats team was paddling a canoe in circles, not making the necessary adjustments.

Deus Irae · Jan 17, 2011

aluminum seats said:
The players execute the plays. The fake punt was EXACTLY the kind of shot in the arm that wins games that you ain't otherwise winning. See, Chung isn't supposed to DROP THE BALL there.

The Pats didn't choke--although Brady was off--and they weren't outcoached. The Jets' D played outstandingly well. That's all folks.

I defend the coaches all the time, as pretty much everyone here knows. However, the coaching failed last night, and it's ridiculous to pretend otherwise.

aluminum seats · Jan 17, 2011

Deus Irae said:
I defend the coaches all the time, as pretty much everyone here knows. However, the coaching failed last night, and it's ridiculous to pretend otherwise.

I think that everything is on the table after a loss like yesterday's, and to be honest, my thread title had something to do with the threads I saw on the board when I checked in last night (should Belichick be fired, etc.) For example, I think the benching of Welker could well have been the thing to make the team flat, and the excrutiatingly long drive in the 4th has to go on the coaches as well (fine to run the ball, but get to the damn line already.)

Having said that, if we're dividing blame here, poor execution on the part of the players (Brady, the offensive line, various other aspects) takes the lion's share, not any failings on the part of the coaches.

Deus Irae · Jan 17, 2011

aluminum seats said:
I think that everything is on the table after a loss like yesterday's, and to be honest, my thread title had something to do with the threads I saw on the board when I checked in last night (should Belichick be fired, etc.) For example, I think the benching of Welker could well have been the thing to make the team flat, and the excrutiatingly long drive in the 4th has to go on the coaches as well (fine to run the ball, but get to the damn line already.)

Having said that, if we're dividing blame here, poor execution on the part of the players (Brady, the offensive line, various other aspects) takes the lion's share, not any failings on the part of the coaches.

Both the offensive and defensive coaching failed the team last night. Tough to put the lion's share of the blame on the players when that's the case. There's plenty of blame to go around, and I'm not sure anyone really deserves immunity from it.

The coaches certainly don't.

aluminum seats · Jan 17, 2011

Deus Irae said:
Both the offensive and defensive coaching failed the team last night. Tough to put the lion's share of the blame on the players when that's the case. There's plenty of blame to go around, and I'm not sure anyone really deserves immunity from it.

The coaches certainly don't.

Well, I guess I disagree, in that nothing I saw yesterday or read today convinces me the coaching/playcalling was the culprit in this game more than the players executing the plays in front of them.

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