Brandon Spikes>Gary Guyton

Guyton has many good qualities, but he's not a good open field tackler. Usually approaches the runner too hard, setting himself up to get deked. Especially when the runner needs to get 5 more yards or more for the 1st - he's just constantly blowing those types of tackles, instead of being patient and keeping the guy in front of him. Not a smart player sometimes.

BradyManny said:

PFF, as usual, is wrong. Spikes misses plenty of tackles. In fact, if there is one area of the game he needs to shore up, its tackling - he gets himself in position an awful lot. What Spikes does is meet blockers closer to the LOS - and make life for Mayo easier.

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A little overly-critical of Spikes, IMO. BB has commented that his approach is a bit unorthodox but the results are nonetheless still very good. Like any rookie, he needs to improve a ton, but I would not say that he is a poor tackler. If he was, he wouldn't be playing on 1st down or obvious running situations.

condon84 said:

Sometimes, words can't explain.

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Not really.

It's called balance.

The Packers are way too dependent on Rogers. That's not to say he isn't an excellent QB or Flynn would be better. It's saying you still have to try to run and it happens that try met an ideal situation.

It's not just a question of Spikes versus Guyton. A huge factor in why the defense is so much better against the run with Spikes is that he allows Mayo to play in a position that optimizes his strengths and minimizes his weaknesses. I'd say his beasting against the run is further reflected in his superhuman tackle numbers this season.

robertweathers said:

A little overly-critical of Spikes, IMO. BB has commented that his approach is a bit unorthodox but the results are nonetheless still very good. Like any rookie, he needs to improve a ton, but I would not say that he is a poor tackler. If he was, he wouldn't be playing on 1st down or obvious running situations.

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I didn't say Spikes was a poor tackler - just saying the notion that he "never misses a tackle" is just not true. Jerod Mayo never misses a tackle. I've seen a share of plays this year where Spikes gets in position and then fails to convert. The good news is that he's slowed the runner down and normally the tackle is made by a teammate soon after.

I love Spikes - I think he's one of the biggest additions to this team that we have made. And he does make this run defense very different in that he meets blockers near the LOS, ties them up and lets Mayo have more room to work in.

BradyManny said:

I didn't say Spikes was a poor tackler - just saying the notion that he "never misses a tackle" is just not true. Jerod Mayo never misses a tackle. I've seen a share of plays this year where Spikes gets in position and then fails to convert. The good news is that he's slowed the runner down and normally the tackle is made by a teammate soon after.

I love Spikes - I think he's one of the biggest additions to this team that we have made. And he does make this run defense very different in that he meets blockers near the LOS, ties them up and lets Mayo have more room to work in.

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My bad. Misread your sentiment. He does miss tackles no question.

Guyton is an overall better LB. Wasn't Spikes playing when Hillis ran wild? Kuhn is no joke.

R_T26 said:

Yes Guyton makes big plays once in a while, but Spikes holds down the run d, plus like Pro Football Focus says... Doesnt miss a tackle. Guyton on the other hand takes bad angles and misses plenty of tackles.

Teams best with guyton only
On passing downs.

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Bill Bellichick disagrees. Thats why Guyton was playing 4 times as many snaps as Spikes while they were both healthy.

JFK said:

Guyton is an overall better LB. Wasn't Spikes playing when Hillis ran wild? Kuhn is no joke.

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Kuhn is not in the same boat as Hillis, he's an average goal line rb. Also, if Grant wasn't hurt, Kuhn would barely touch the ball. The whole defense wasn't playing well vs Cleveland, not just Spikes. Even though Spikes is only a rookie I would take his instincts and leadership over Guyton. Spikes didn't have a good combine but he has shown a knack to make plays in the passing game too (Jets game.)

The_Natural_83 said:

The whole defense wasn't playing well vs Cleveland, not just Spikes. Even though Spikes is only a rookie I would take his instincts and leadership over Guyton. Spikes didn't have a good combine but he has shown a knack to make plays in the passing game too (Jets game.)

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Then why was Guyton playing 80% of the snaps to Spikes 20% before Spikes got suspended?

Guyton is a better LB. That may not be true in the future, but it most certainly is right now.


I know people love to hate on "Good but not Great" players around here, but Spikes isn't even good yet. Guyton is.

Synovia said:

Then why was Guyton playing 80% of the snaps to Spikes 20% before Spikes got suspended?

Guyton is a better LB. That may not be true in the future, but it most certainly is right now.


I know people love to hate on "Good but not Great" players around here, but Spikes isn't even good yet. Guyton is.

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Not hating on Guyton, but even with 60% more snaps, Spikes still has more tackles. Guyton is better vs the pass but I personally would take Spikes in running situations.

Seems to me we need to consider that we are missing not only Spikes, but also Brace, Wright and Pryor (not to mention Ty Warren). That's a lot of missing pieces that all contribute to the performance against the run.

Anyways, Spikes was performance may have been enhanced.

crowell33 said:

Sex tapes and illegal drugs aside, Guyton has 2 touchdowns this season and can be relied upon in the nickel package.

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Spikes did not take illegal drugs.. This is the type of BS exaggeration that isn't needed. Spikes got in trouble for having a prescription for Adderall and not informing the team. So, when he got tested, he failed the drug test. That's significantly different than having illegal drugs...

Spikes AND Guyton together make a great linebacker. Spikes is a run stuffer, who will evole into a better pass defender. Guyton is great in the nickel, that is why they work so well together. The rn defense will get fixed when Spikes and a few of our DL are back.

DaBruinz said:

Spikes did not take illegal drugs.. This is the type of BS exaggeration that isn't needed. Spikes got in trouble for having a prescription for Adderall and not informing the team. So, when he got tested, he failed the drug test. That's significantly different than having illegal drugs...

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Totally agree, and what makes it worse is suppossed fans of the team are the ones that keep posting this crap. I would expect it from fans/trolls of other teams, not Patriot fans. I don't get it.

JFK said:

Anyways, Spikes was performance may have been enhanced.

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By ADD medicine? Don't think so.
Pretty much everything in this thread has been said. Spikes is a far superior run stopper; Guyton is beyond bad against the run. I focused on him a lot of the game yesterday; he gets blocked out of his gap on most plays. He's fast in pass coverage, but has surprisingly slow feet; could be a product of bad angles. Guyton is valuable in deep drops, but I really don't like him 1 on 1 against a back on a swing pass or a dump off over the middle.

The_Natural_83 said:

Not hating on Guyton, but even with 60% more snaps, Spikes still has more tackles. Guyton is better vs the pass but I personally would take Spikes in running situations.

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Tackles aren't necessary a good thing, even for a LB.

DaBruinz said:

Spikes did not take illegal drugs.. This is the type of BS exaggeration that isn't needed. Spikes got in trouble for having a prescription for Adderall and not informing the team. So, when he got tested, he failed the drug test. That's significantly different than having illegal drugs...

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Aderall is an amphetamine. There's a reason its banned by the nfl. There's a reason its banned by pretty much every sporting rules organization in the world.

Amphetamine most certainly improves performance.

Synovia said:

Then why was Guyton playing 80% of the snaps to Spikes 20% before Spikes got suspended?

Guyton is a better LB. That may not be true in the future, but it most certainly is right now.


I know people love to hate on "Good but not Great" players around here, but Spikes isn't even good yet. Guyton is.

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Guyton was playing like "80% of the snaps" because the Pats were using their Nickel package that much. Not because of Spikes not being good.. And, I'd check your %s again. They seem off.