Tate on Kick Off Returns

I completely agree... give all of his responsibilities to Price. Oh wait, Tate is better than Price (not to mention any other option we have there, except McCourty, but we're not risking injury with him back there) and Belichick seems to know what he's doing by playing the better player.

BB has had faith in Tate all year. If anything, we should be concerned about the blocking in front of him. Anyone here an expert on kickoff return coverage who can point out exactly who on ST is a weak link?

As far as WR, is he being completely ineffective? Every time Moss would get shut down, everyone would say that he was being a decoy. Does this not apply to Tate? Does he ever distract the safety on his side? I know Hernandez, Gronk and Welker have been very successful over the middle this season. Could that be due to Moss/Tate and Branch/Tate? That said, I must admit I would like to see more of Edelman, but who wants to %$@# with this offense right now? opcorn:

Tate is fine as a return man. Teams are specifically game planning against him on kickoffs and punts. Keep him in there. Beside that, who else would you want? McCourty? Another good return man in college who is also our undisputed #1 CB at this point whose loss would be devastating to the defense. How about Slater? I guess that would be a good move... if you want someone to field the kickoff, get about eight yards, then get absolutely annihilated by a highlight reel hit. Edelman would be a solid choice, but he doesn't have the breakaway speed that Tate has. Same goes with Welker.

DaBruinz said:

As was mentioned, Tate is still recovering from the flu on 3 days rest.

Also, as was mentioned, the blocking was horrible. When there are 5 guys gang-tackling your return man, the blocking has failed.

That being said, Tate should spend the off-season married to the Jugs machine. Like Branch and Givens did after their rookie seasons.

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Nothing wrong with being really close to the Jugs all offseason.

MossWelkowski said:

Tate has been absolutely atrocious on KO returns the past couple weeks. He has to be on the sidelines IMO during Kickoffs. Put sammy morris, edelman, or even woodhead back there. I cannot stand watching Tate run into guys at the 15 yard line anymore.

Did anyone notice where the Lions were starting yesterday and where the patriots were starting yesterday?

Patriots were probably averaging around the 17 yard line where the lions were averaging around the 35 yard line. Are the 2-9 Lions really that much better than the Patriots on special teams?

Tate brought back 2 KOs to the house early in the season. So what? He's terrible right now in all aspects of the game. Bench him.

Anyone else feel this way?

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No. I don't. But I'm sure you'd like to cut him because he's a bum in your eyes.
You just don't bench a guy who has shown the ability to take it to the house on any given kick.
If he's in a slump he'll work his way out of it. As some mentioned he might have been sick this Thanksgiving week and the blocking wasn't the greatest either.

Schmo said:

I completely agree... give all of his responsibilities to Price. Oh wait, Tate is better than Price (not to mention any other option we have there, except McCourty, but we're not risking injury with him back there) and Belichick seems to know what he's doing by playing the better player.

BB has had faith in Tate all year. If anything, we should be concerned about the blocking in front of him. Anyone here an expert on kickoff return coverage who can point out exactly who on ST is a weak link?

As far as WR, is he being completely ineffective? Every time Moss would get shut down, everyone would say that he was being a decoy. Does this not apply to Tate? Does he ever distract the safety on his side? I know Hernandez, Gronk and Welker have been very successful over the middle this season. Could that be due to Moss/Tate and Branch/Tate? That said, I must admit I would like to see more of Edelman, but who wants to %$@# with this offense right now? opcorn:

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Tate is not consistent game after game. Hot one game, cold another. He is a rookie. Do you expect a DevinHester?

I do agree that he seems to do a little dancing too much on kickoff-returns. He should learn from Benny and charge foward...

Boo Hiss!!!

Am I on the 'Hate Tate' Bandwagon now?

I was at the game and all the kickoff returns were on my side.

Outstanding kickoffs by Rayner. I don't think i have ever seen a kicker "diectional kick than that guy. All those kickoffs were within a few yards of out of bounds. More than few few people in the section noted this.

Thge only way for the return do be successful would have been cross field and that's not the way the blocking was setup.

It might have been better to just take the knee.

So what about starting field position? If Tate caught the ball on the 10-15, he wouldn't have been out to the 29?

KontradictioN said:

Tate is fine as a return man. Teams are specifically game planning against him on kickoffs and punts. Keep him in there. Beside that, who else would you want? McCourty? Another good return man in college who is also our undisputed #1 CB at this point whose loss would be devastating to the defense. How about Slater? I guess that would be a good move... if you want someone to field the kickoff, get about eight yards, then get absolutely annihilated by a highlight reel hit. Edelman would be a solid choice, but he doesn't have the breakaway speed that Tate has. Same goes with Welker.

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Ya, as a matter of fact, I would love to see Edelman replace Tate on KR, atleast Edelman will hit a hole and hit it hard instead of stutter stepping on his toes waiting to get hit around the 15 yard line. Tate's KRs have been problematic for a number of recent games now, not just yesterday.

BB makes changes where change is needed and this is a case where he has to light a fire under Tate's arse because Brandon has been a little soft shall we say when the bodies are approaching him. How much worse can we do instead of setting BB up 1st and 10 at the 18 yard line on a consistent basis, we need more than what we've had.

zipster9 said:

Tate is not consistent game after game. Hot one game, cold another. He is a rookie. Do you expect a DevinHester?

I do agree that he seems to do a little dancing too much on kickoff-returns. He should learn from Benny and charge foward...

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Dancing is what led to his return TD's. By "dancing" he can get the kickoff team flowing in one direction and then run in the other. As others have pointed out, they are kicking him into the corner narrowing the field.

MossWelkowski said:

I cannot stand watching Tate run into guys at the 15 yard line anymore.

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One strength I noticed about Tate is his excellent vision. If there's a lane for him to run through -- he'll see it. Otherwise, like most KO returners, he'll "run into guys" if there's no opening.

A couple of influencing factors may be:

- After his two returns for TDs, teams are placing extra emphasis (longer practice sessions) on their coverage units.

- Some teams emphasize the value of ST regardless of their opponent.

One possible solution would be for coach O'Brien to devise some new blocking strategies tailored for Tate. It's a good bet they're working on it...

Anyone else feel this way?

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No.

MossWelkowski said:

Tate has been absolutely atrocious on KO returns the past couple weeks. He has to be on the sidelines IMO during Kickoffs. Put sammy morris, edelman, or even woodhead back there. I cannot stand watching Tate run into guys at the 15 yard line anymore.

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Tate struggled at times against the Lions, no doubt, and as others have pointed out, teams are game-planning for him.

But saying he's been atrocious the past couple of weeks? Absolutely false, and I want to know what games you're watching.

Week 9 at Browns
Tate only got one single chance to return the ball, and he brought it back 28 yards to the NE 32. That's atrocious?

Even more significant is that he had a major impact on field position without touching the ball, as it was clear Cleveland was avoiding him. The Browns started off by kicking away from him when the mis-communication between Morris and Gronk happened, resulting in a fumble. The next time, they kicked to Tate, who returned it 28 yards to the NE 32. That would be the last time they let him near the ball.

But because they avoided him, we sometimes got good field position out of it. Their next kick-off was short and away from Tate, fielded by Connolly at the 19 and returned out to the 30. The next kick was to start the half, went to the 16 yard line where it was fielded by Morris (the guy you suggested replace Tate) for 4 yards. The next kick went to the NE 23, where Crumpler fair-caught it. The next kick went to the NE 26, where Crumpler got a short return in to start at the NE 31. The next kick went to Connolly, who fielded it at the NE 30 and returned to the NE 38.

So on the 6 kick-offs we fielded minus the fumble, our average starting position was the NE 29 yard line. Hardly atrocious.

Week 10 at Pittsburgh
Tate had 3 returns. The first two were average returns, bringing the ball out to the NE 23 and 22 yard line. Tate almost broke the third one, getting the ball out to the NE 40. The rest were onside attempts. Again, hardly atrocious.

Week 11 vs. Indy
Playing with the flu, Tate still had a decent game with only one bad return. The first went for 32 yards as he brought it back out to the NE 35. The next kick was fair-caught near the end of the half. To start the half, Tate returned 19 yards to the NE 27. The next kick was fielded by Morris, who returned it 21 yards to the NE 23. Then Tate had a mediocre return of 15 yards to the NE 18.

On the day, Tate averages 22 yards per return with the flu, almost breaking away for a touchdown, while Morris at full strength (one of your choices to replace him) returned 1 for 21 yards. Not up to his usual standard, but again, hardly atrocious.

Did anyone notice where the Lions were starting yesterday and where the patriots were starting yesterday?

Patriots were probably averaging around the 17 yard line where the lions were averaging around the 35 yard line. Are the 2-9 Lions really that much better than the Patriots on special teams?

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There was a definitely difference in field position, though part of that is also on Graham's leg (average kick fielded at the 5 vs. less than 1 for Raymer). But they were also pinning Tate into corners very aggressively. If any of those kicks bounced out (and a few came close), that would have been an easy 40 yards for our team. The Lions took some chances, made some good kicks and deserve full credit for that.

Tate brought back 2 KOs to the house early in the season. So what? He's terrible right now in all aspects of the game. Bench him.

Anyone else feel this way?

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I'm sure many feel the same way after the Lions game but I don't know who you want to replace him. Don't even joke around about Morris, seriously. Tate averages 26 yards per return, good for 6th-best among regular returners.

And Tate's not the only return guy struggling lately. The leading kick returner this year is Leon Washington, who averages 30.3 yards per return. But over the past 3 games, he's only averaged 22 yards per return. Think the Seahawks are talking about benching him too?

Tate has struggled, no doubt. But to say he's been atrocious is absolutely ridiculous, and it's the same type of knee-jerk nonsense as the guys who wanted to cut Gronk after the Cleveland game or trade Brady last season because he wasn't his usual self or gave up on Light after some early season struggles. Not every week is an easy week in the NFL, but you can't just give up on every player once they have a bad game or bad stretch.

If he breaks one against the Jests will there be an "Oh God Tate is the man!" posts? I just wana know so I can get my responses ready

I'm so glad certain posters aren't running the team. we'd have three players left on the roster by December. That Brady guy would be gone, he stunk it up a couple times.

The_Riddler said:

Ya, as a matter of fact, I would love to see Edelman replace Tate on KR, atleast Edelman will hit a hole and hit it hard instead of stutter stepping on his toes waiting to get hit around the 15 yard line. Tate's KRs have been problematic for a number of recent games now, not just yesterday.

BB makes changes where change is needed and this is a case where he has to light a fire under Tate's arse because Brandon has been a little soft shall we say when the bodies are approaching him. How much worse can we do instead of setting BB up 1st and 10 at the 18 yard line on a consistent basis, we need more than what we've had.

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Slater will "hit a hole and hit it hard" too. The only problem with that is when he actually hits that hole hard, the gunner hits him even harder. The fact of the matter is that Tate's stutter stepping is the reason why he took those punts and kickoffs back for TD's earlier in the season. As for Tate's punt returns being "problematic", Cleveland was clearly playing keep away from him and it worked. As was Detroit. Teams clearly fear him and are game planning against him much like they did against Devin Hester. Why would we put in a guy (Edelman) who is not really a threat to take it to the house on kickoffs in place of a guy (Tate) who is. Keep Edelman on punt returns. That's what he's good at. Keep Tate in as our kick returner.

Guess since Maroney's gone Tate is the new whipping boy here. I just wish people would give him a season or 2 before branding him the new Bethel Johnson.

Where exactly would Morris or Woodhead have run on those returns? Did you see a crease?

MossWelkowski said:

He's terrible right now in all aspects of the game. Bench him.

Anyone else feel this way?

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The NFL Season is filled with peaks and valleys. Until you find a better replacement, it's time to tone down the temper tantrum.

He had absolutely nowhere to go against Detroit. There were routinely 2 or 3 Lions in his face by the time he reached the 15 yard line.

Blocking was atrocious.

everything atrocious!!!!PATS ONLY WIN BY 21 ON THE ROAD ON 4 DAYS REST!!real bad bad bad!!!worst 9-2 in league history!!!! Scared to death!!!

It's an excellent point. I withdraw my contention.

Tate has been ok. But he has become less a threat the more teams have seen of him on film. The sick feeling I had in my guy everytime Stefan Logan returned it on Thursday is exactly what a kick returner should be. Just one miss and that guy would have been gone. Its obvious that maybe Tates role should be in the kicking game, and rather him focus dominately on that and take less snaps at WR.