so, the Colts have some boo-boo's, right?

neuronet said:

Could this be a trap game. Well, a near-trap game?

The following worries me (from power ranking thread):
"The Cold, Hard Football Facts: Peyton Manning has now put forth three sub-par game ratings in his last five – 65.0 vs. KC, 67.0 vs. PHI and 69.8 vs. CIN. He hasn’t had a stretch with three bad games like that in a concentrated bunch since his rookie year. "

Manning will be pissed. He will be riled up. He will be ready to win, desperate to win against us.

We are coming off what many view as a huge upset win in Pittsburgh, a huge emotional high.

I don't want to say it's a trap game, because it is Manning and the Colts, so I can't imagine our defense underestimating them. But just sayin, we need to be on our toes! Manning is going to be out to prove something.

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I've never understood the logic that we are in trouble because the opposing player has been playing poorly for a month, so now he is mad about and will play great.

random_colts_fan said:

I've never REALLY been concerned about injuries with the colts until this year. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining or making excuses, but just to clarify some of the injuries have nothing to do with depth. I mean how many decent running backs and WR's do you need to keep on hand before it becomes redundant? Apparently not enough this year. In many positions where we have key positions we aren't down to second string, but 3rd, 4th, practice squad.

Right now the problem isn't really talent at WR but the simple fact that the guys we have in just don't know the playbook. Peyton more often than not throws the ball to an empty hole or hits the dude in the back of the helmet because he's not even looking.

And Garcon doesn't even count any more, I'm not sure what his deal is this year but it seems he has amnesia and forgot everything about our offense.

And finally, once any of these backups starts to pick up on things (White, Eldridge, Tamme) they are hurt and gone too.

I'm certainly not looking for sympathy from any of you but I have honestly never seen anything like this with a Colts team. If anything, it makes it painfully obvious just how incredibly well tuned our first string offense is. That being said I expect a very ugly but hard fought game where we end up getting our butts handed to us

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That was the expectation for our Week 2 Jets game as well. They ended up winning. The point being that, yes, your WR corps are taxed, but these two teams are familiar enough with one another that they should still be in the same division. This will be a hard fought game and I think that the result will be in our favor, but a lot closer than a lot of people are expecting.

PATSNUTme said:

Hart was running well. Powers is a OK CB. Brackett is a good player. Garcon- everyone is banged up this time of year.

Please give us more detail on Brackett, Powers, and Hart. Are they expected back this week?

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Powers played against Cincy, so it's a pretty sure bet that he'll play this week. Hart's looking pretty unlikely, haven't heard anything either way about Brackett.

KontradictioN said:

That was the expectation for our Week 2 Jets game as well. They ended up winning. The point being that, yes, your WR corps are taxed, but these two teams are familiar enough with one another that they should still be in the same division. This will be a hard fought game and I think that the result will be in our favor, but a lot closer than a lot of people are expecting.

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Our backups definitely have already proven themselves worthy, the trouble is they are all hurt now too. This one is entirely on Caldwell and how well he can give a solid gameplan for Manning to work on with the scrubs as I just don't think they're capable of improvising or making adjustments yet. If anyone needs to step up and make it happen this week it's him

Sounds like it will be the Rookies vs the Newbies then. Should be a fun game regardless of the outcome. I'll be traveling but hopefully I'll get to watch this one.

I think the Clark injury is pretty significant for Manning. Tamme's done a pretty good job filling in, but here are Manning's numbers with and without Clark:

With Clark
6 games, 67% completion, 319 yards per game, 13 TDs, 2 INTs

Without Clark
3 games, 58% completion, 249 yards per game, 3 TDs, 2 INTs

It's a small sample size and certainly not conclusive, but something to watch for this week.

random_colts_fan said:

I mean how many decent running backs and WR's do you need to keep on hand before it becomes redundant? Apparently not enough this year. In many positions where we have key positions we aren't down to second string, but 3rd, 4th, practice squad.

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I seem to recall NE winning a championship with Randall Gay starting and Troy Brown seeing a lot of snaps at CB.

AndyJohnson said:

I've never understood the logic that we are in trouble because the opposing player has been playing poorly for a month, so now he is mad about and will play great.

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I generally would say I agree with you, though we have Brady/Browns followed by Brady/Steelers to back this up a bit. This is definitely a test of Manning's ability to show Brady-like leadership by coaching his guys up in the face of adversity, and he has a few weeks worth of material to work with.

For a team that hugely favors a passing game and is not a defensive power, the Colts have taken huge hits. Clark is a major loss as he is one of the best in the game with a skill set that makes him too fast for most LBs and too big for most safeties. Without a genuine second receiver threat like the Harrison/Wayne combo, defenses can throw everything at Wayne. With Manning and Wayne the Colts are dangerous, but not as dangerous.

Manning is a great QB, but somebody has to get open and catch the ball. I don't feel any sympathy for them as injuries are part of the game (although after the way the game ended last year I would prefer to see them at full strength so there can be no excuses), but the losses to the Pats do not do as much damage given the way the team is designed. The Colts do not appear to embrace the Patriots' philosophy of finding multi-role players, and appear to focus more on top talent and relative rookies rather than lower priced players throughout the roster who fit the system. The Colts thus do not appear to be as capable of absorbing damage to critical positions such as those suffered this year.

L Bizzle said:

Addai - 1st Runningback

Mike Hart- Our short yardage RB who has been playing better than our #2 Brown

Dallas Clark- huge HUGE loss

Tamme- Who has been putting up better per game stats than Clark and apparently could barely walk after sundays game

Anthony Gonzalez- done for season

Austin Collie- should be back this week but has been banged up

Bob Sanders- he's always gone but when he plays he makes a huge difference

Melvin Bullitt- has been our consistent starting safety for 2-3 years now was a captain and leader on defense/ special teams

Jerruad Powers- our best 1 on 1 cover corner

Gary Brackett- The captain and leader of our defense

Garcon- has been banged up and that has showed as he's all but vanished in recent weeks

now compare that to the Patriots and its painfully obvious (atleast for us colts fans) who has the most significant injuries. That being said thats the life of the NFL

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actually, you're wrong. Completely wrong. If you add up all of the games the above players missed, they are far less then the games missed for the Pats injured players. By my counts, the above players missed 39 games so far. Looking at the Pais injured players: Ty Warren, Stephen Gostkowski, Leigh Bodden, Brandon McGowen, Nick Kaczur, Kevin Faulk, Fred Taylor, Stephen Neal and Patrick Chung have missed a total of 53 games.

And when you look at the rest of the season, I see 4 Colts players who are on IR who have a significant impact on the Colts. Clark, Gonzo, Sanders and Bullitt. The Pats have 6. Warren, Gostkowski, Faulk, Bodden, McGowen and Kaczur.

So this notion that the Colts have been ravaged by injuries pales in comparision to the Pats. It just seems people like to make more excuses for the Colts then the Pats.

stevedogc said:

...
So this notion that the Colts have been ravaged by injuries pales in comparision to the Pats. It just seems people like to make more excuses for the Colts then the Pats.

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Any guesses which way this discussion goes on the networks Sunday? I'm predicting it'll be "the Powerhouse Patriots against the Injury-Ravaged Colts." I'll honestly be surprised if the Patriots injuries you cite get mentioned Sunday, except maybe in passing.

Well, either way - -fun game ahead. Nice to have these guys back at Gillette.

who cares. If they feel excuses are necessary, then by all means.

Injuries are part of the game.

As long as manning is in there, things will be interesting. Without manning, even at full strength, the colts are a 3 win team

stevedogc said:

actually, you're wrong. Completely wrong. If you add up all of the games the above players missed, they are far less then the games missed for the Pats injured players. By my counts, the above players missed 39 games so far. Looking at the Pais injured players: Ty Warren, Stephen Gostkowski, Leigh Bodden, Brandon McGowen, Nick Kaczur, Kevin Faulk, Fred Taylor, Stephen Neal and Patrick Chung have missed a total of 53 games.

And when you look at the rest of the season, I see 4 Colts players who are on IR who have a significant impact on the Colts. Clark, Gonzo, Sanders and Bullitt. The Pats have 6. Warren, Gostkowski, Faulk, Bodden, McGowen and Kaczur.

So this notion that the Colts have been ravaged by injuries pales in comparision to the Pats. It just seems people like to make more excuses for the Colts then the Pats.

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Nicely put!

let's see if the commentators catch up to this inconvenient truth.

NYCPatsFan said:

Nicely put!

let's see if the commentators catch up to this inconvenient truth.

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No way-- it's too much work for them. They will just marvel over how Peyton Manning is getting it done "all by himself" and then nod and laugh at their own jokes. They know the average Joe non Patriots fan out there knows who Dallas Clark and Bob Sanders are and that they could not pick out Ty Warren, Nick Kazcur, Leigh Bodden, Brandon McGowen et. al. out of a lineup.

Explaining that and actually educating the fans is harder to do than washing Peyton's ballsac.

IllegalContact said:

who cares. If they feel excuses are necessary, then by all means.

Injuries are part of the game.

As long as manning is in there, things will be interesting. Without manning, even at full strength, the colts are a 3 win team

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They were a 3 win and 6 win team with Manning in years past.

The Colts are more than just Manning. Manning plays on a highly talented team. Not surprising since he has Bill Polian the best talent evaluator in the league.

Uncle Rico said:

I generally would say I agree with you, though we have Brady/Browns followed by Brady/Steelers to back this up a bit. This is definitely a test of Manning's ability to show Brady-like leadership by coaching his guys up in the face of adversity, and he has a few weeks worth of material to work with.

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Exactly. Manning is as competitive as they come, and he hates losing to the Patriots in particular. He is probably the best QB in the league (sorry to Brady, but I do think he's a wee bit better than Brady), and can pull wins out of his butt.

God I would give my left nut to go to the game this weekend. What are tickets going for right now I wonder...

stevedogc said:

actually, you're wrong. Completely wrong. If you add up all of the games the above players missed, they are far less then the games missed for the Pats injured players. By my counts, the above players missed 39 games so far. Looking at the Pais injured players: Ty Warren, Stephen Gostkowski, Leigh Bodden, Brandon McGowen, Nick Kaczur, Kevin Faulk, Fred Taylor, Stephen Neal and Patrick Chung have missed a total of 53 games.

And when you look at the rest of the season, I see 4 Colts players who are on IR who have a significant impact on the Colts. Clark, Gonzo, Sanders and Bullitt. The Pats have 6. Warren, Gostkowski, Faulk, Bodden, McGowen and Kaczur.

So this notion that the Colts have been ravaged by injuries pales in comparision to the Pats. It just seems people like to make more excuses for the Colts then the Pats.

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This is a great post. Good work. Now we need Ian to put this info into a press release and get it out to the media, who is going to frame this game as the "poor injury ravaged Colts having to play a healthy Patriots squad". The Public really should know the truth of the matter. I know I bought into the IMAGE and want to thank stevedogc for giving me the REALITY.

Jetssuck said:

They were a 3 win and 6 win team with Manning in years past.

The Colts are more than just Manning. Manning plays on a highly talented team. Not surprising since he has Bill Polian the best talent evaluator in the league.

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The Peyton Manning mystique benefits from 2 things:

1.) The Colts run almost a pure timing offense, meaning any other QB will look terrible until he gets that timing down pat. Manning spends the offseason working with all his receivers on the routes, so he can anticipate exactly where the ball is going to need to go, and he's thrown the route hundreds of times. Since the rules change in 2004/2005, that timing is even more noticeable, since defenders can't hand-fight to get the receivers off-stride the way they used to be able to.

2.) The Colts have done a lousy job of backing up Manning, so the drop from Manning to Painter, for example, is enormous. In New England, the Patriots have had guys like Testaverde, Flutie, Bledsoe, Cassel..... guys who can actually play in the NFL.

PATSNUTme said:

Over the past few weeks I've heard people in the media cry about all the injuries their beloved Colt have.

Here are some of their notable players on IR :

Bullit, Gonzalez, Clark. I heard that Collie and Addai have some injuries.

Now here is a list of notable Patriots players on IR:

Warren, Bodden, McGowen,the Ghost, Faulk: Now, Taylor and Neal have been out.

So which other important Colts players are injured do they cannot play? Maybe I missed some. There has to be more to have the media people pull out their crying towels, or does there?

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I haven't read the entire thread, so I'm sorry if this is already listed.

On IR Sanders (ya I know but he was supposed to be the starter), Bullitt (Sanders back up), Silva (the next back up safety after Bullitt). Clark and Tom Santi (the back up pass catching TE). And Gonzalez is the only other key player, though we have 12 total on IR.

Those that missed last week Austin Collie and his back up Blair White. Clint Session and Gary Brackett, both starting LBers. Joe Addai and Mike Hart. Hart has been a much more effective back up RB than Brown. CB Justin Tryon, he had been starting with Powers and Lacey being out. Both of them played for the first time in a while, thankfully.

Aaron Francisco, our 4th safety was injured during the Bengals game and Jacob Tamme, our only pass catching TE still standing, has back spasms and had a hard time walking after the game.

DL Antonio Johnson, knee surgery, and DBs Lacey and Powers all returned to see their first action in several weeks.

That's where we stand to the best of my knowledge. It's kind of a joke how often guys are getting knocked out. Fans are looking at everything from the field turf, to the coaching staff's training mentality, to the strength and conditioning coach for answers, but it just seems to be one of those years and a crazy one at that.

workhorse said:

... Fans are looking at everything from the field turf, to the coaching staff's training mentality, to the strength and conditioning coach for answers, but it just seems to be one of those years and a crazy one at that.

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It's funny how fans can respond to injuries. Pats fans will remember the Pete Carroll era, when there were so many injuries and fans were pointing the finger at the coach, the conditioning - -everything. From what I've seen injuries have been at least as prevalent under BB, but there hasn't been so much outrage; winning does that. Plus, after following the sport for a while, you just understand that injuries happen.

As for the Colts: From what I've seen they have always preferred undersized and fast, and maybe that can catch up to you in such a physical sport.