I am surprised no one caught this Borges Gem

Teenuh said:

Technically, the main reason that happened is because we got lucky with a certain 5th round draft pick and I was told Kraft doesn't have any influence over football decisions. Without Tom none of those would have happened.



Well, first of all, thank you for making a reasonable argument. Its a nice change from the other posts.....

If we win the rest our games and do well in the playoffs, then I'll be the first to admit that I was wrong about my assessment of the trade and I will officially hail Bill as a genius even though I still wouldn't like the trade much. But I'm certain that if we fail miserably, the other people won't do the same. I'm sure they will just respond by saying, "give it time, we'll be better next year."

If you look at what Moss does for our offense even when he's not getting TDs, I don't see how anyone can possibly think this trade will have a positive effect on our offense.

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Not to pick nitts but Brady was a 6th round pick. Although he is a great qb I would make the argument that the reason the Patriots won was because of the entire team playing well. The defense during those years was outstanding, and the running game solid. I disagree that it was all Tom Brady.

If you refuse to give the ownership some credit for the championships you can not condemn them when they make a trade you don't like. They can't be held responsible for the bad and not the good.

In the back of there minds a lot of fans think this is a terrible move. However, given the past Patriots success the majority of those fans will ignore this voice. To have you continually make the point that it was a bad move is the last thing I as a fan want to hear. Mostly because it makes me feel better to be optimistic about the move until proven otherwise.

I for one would rather you did not judge the trade until at least a few games into the post Moss era. If you try to be optimistic or at least objective until we have game results and the Pats falter, I promise to create a thread stating how you were right. If I am correct and the Patriots go back to their Superbowl winning offense then that will be enough reward for me. Deal?

Teenuh said:

I'll agree that Bill is one of the best of all time but like I said, even the best make mistakes. I never said it meant he was incompetent, except possibly when I first heard about the trade and was raging like many other pats fans at the time.

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But until we know it was a mistake or not, lets give him he benefit of the doubt. He was right about keeping the 6th round kid out of Michigan and trading away the pro-bowl QB.

So kind of like how fans on here treated Moss for the past 4 years then?

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I challenge you to find where I once said anything negative about Moss, from the day he was trade from Oakland until the day he was traded to the Vikings.

I was opposed to the trade before it happened when there was some rumors of it. And was very vocal in my opposition of the Patriots making the move. But once it was official, my response was, "In Bill Belichick I trust. If anyone can straighten out that malicount it is BB. Go Moss, break Rice's record."

When he did break Rice's record, I concluded that once again, BB knows better than I what is best for the NEP than I.

I had had some suspicions about him not being a team player ever since the KC game of 2008. And those suspicions grew week by week. But I never bad mouthed him, not once.

It appeared to me that he was taking plays off. But not once did I post that. "If BB and TB are happy with what Moss is doing, then I am happy with what Moss is doing" was my attitude.

And I full support BB, when he decided Moss is not longer an asset for the team but a liablity.

I support the NEP. If Osama bin Ladin has a flying Elvis on he Jersey this Sunday, I will root for him to be successful on the football field.

BadMoFo said:

I was gonna say, I don't remember her using the word senile. Still being critical, doesn't mean someone is classless. She's not name-calling, or even worse wishing premature death on someone who simply writes an opinion they disagree with.

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^ This! What's really sad is that these are most likely adults who are calling people names and talking about how they wish someone would die. I could understand a high school kid behaving that way but adults should know better.

And yeah, I never said anything about him being senile so now people have lowered themselves to the point where they are just making things up.

Joker said:

Brady was a SIXTH round draft pick....just a FYI

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Cut her some slack. She was only ten when he was drafted. It was probably past her bed time when he was drafted.

JackBauer said:

Hey there, your nose is looking a little brown.

I haven't seen anything beyond the pale, and as far as I'm concerned there's nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade.

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So, I got brown on my nose for siding with one poster here, yet you side with about 100 other posters who all share the same opinions, same likes, same dislikes, etc. What's that say about your nose?

BadMoFo said:

So, I got brown on my nose for siding with one poster here, yet you side with about 100 other posters who all share the same opinions, same likes, same dislikes, etc. What's that say about your nose?

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BadMoFo said:

So, I got brown on my nose for siding with one poster here, yet you side with about 100 other posters who all share the same opinions, same likes, same dislikes, etc. What's that say about your nose?

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It says that you haven't a clue what the term means and how it's typically used.

emoney_33 said:

This is exactly the opposite of how you should analyze whether a DECISION was correct. Hindsight only offers whether a decision -turned out- to be OK.

If I sell my house with nowhere to live and spend it all on lottery tickets, that's a terrible decision, regardless if I end up with 10x as much or nothing.

That being said, we'll never have enough information to determine whether this decision was definitively correct or not at the time it was made, but all we can do is hope that it works out for the Patriots.

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What? So you shouldn't take into account the outcome in deciding if a decision was correct? Do you live in the real world? Results matter?

Since you like analogies here is another one. If I am investing in the stock market (similar to investing in the talent of players) and I create a portfolio with low correlation and a high projected return was that a good decision? You don't know if it was a good decision until you receive a return. In this case if all your stocks tank no matter how sound your reasoning you lose a lot of money and were wrong in making your decision.

Hindsight is always how you should analyze a past decision.

If I sold my fictitious house bought lottery tickets and won 10 million dollars you can tell me it's a terrible decision all you want while I throw things at your tiny house from my castle. Results matter. Making a good decision that didn't work is entirely useless.

Hey you all, how about Ron Borges and that quote in Peter King's column?

JackBauer said:

It says that you haven't a clue what the term means and how it's typically used.

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Although I kind of agree with BadMoFo, this is a solid burn, which made me laugh.

desi-patsfan said:

Hey you all, how about Ron Borges and that quote in Peter King's column?

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Borges is an idiot.

PowerRunRevival said:

Not to pick nitts but Brady was a 6th round pick. Although he is a great qb I would make the argument that the reason the Patriots won was because of the entire team playing well. The defense during those years was outstanding, and the running game solid. I disagree that it was all Tom Brady.

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But you have to admit that we probably wouldn't have done it with a lesser QB. A QB like Bledsoe definitely wouldn't have made it happen.

If you refuse to give the ownership some credit for the championships you can not condemn them when they make a trade you don't like. They can't be held responsible for the bad and not the good.
In the back of there minds a lot of fans think this is a terrible move. However, given the past Patriots success the majority of those fans will ignore this voice. To have you continually make the point that it was a bad move is the last thing I as a fan want to hear. Mostly because it makes me feel better to be optimistic about the move until proven otherwise.

I for one would rather you did not judge the trade until at least a few games into the post Moss era. If you try to be optimistic or at least objective until we have game results and the Pats falter, I promise to create a thread stating how you were right. If I am correct and the Patriots go back to their Superbowl winning offense then that will be enough reward for me. Deal?

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Its funny because when the season first started and everyone on here was freaking out about how bad our defense was, I was one of the few people telling everyone to be patient and give it some time. I've tried to be optimistic about everything the past few years but it was getting harder and harder. The Moss trade was just the last straw for me and I finally joined the "sky is falling" bandwagon. In this rare case, i think the sky may actually be falling but I agree that we won't know for certain until later on in the season. But yes, I'll drop the whole thing for now and wait and see what happens. I hope i'm wrong but I'm pretty sure I'm not. :bricks:

Another big part of what made me so mad about this was how our "fans" were once again turning on Randy like they did repeatedly during the past 4 years. The guy just couldn't win as a Patriot. Regardless of how much he did for our team, people still criticized him about every little thing.

PowerRunRevival said:

Although I kind of agree with BadMoFo, this is a solid burn, which made me laugh.

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Unfortunately, snide little insults are about the extent of Jack's ability to interact with others.

I believe Ron Borges has learned from his mistakes of the past. It is my understanding that he has punched out only one defenseless cripple in his lifetime.

borg said:

I believe Ron Borges has learned from his mistakes of the past. It is my understanding that he has punched out only one defenseless cripple in his lifetime.

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Hahaha!

I think Borges looks like the guy in The Bodyguard who was the "real" killer and tried to off Whitney Houston with a video camera.

PowerRunRevival said:

Hindsight is always how you should analyze a past decision.

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I disagree. I was once at Foxwoods and saw a girl with 18 in blackjack. She said "hit" (and made the appropriate hand motion). Everyone at the table - including the dealer - tried to talk her out of it but she just wasn't listening. Sure enough the dealer gives her a 3 and she won. So she was feeling pretty darn smug.

What's my point? Just because something worked doesn't mean it was the right decision. And just because something didn't work doesn't mean it was the wrong one.

borg said:

I believe Ron Borges has learned from his mistakes of the past. It is my understanding that he has punched out only one defenseless cripple in his lifetime.

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yeah, but you're forgetting all those little old ladies he's run over on the crosswalks of Boston sidestreets....

Wolfpack said:

I disagree. I was once at Foxwoods and saw a girl with 18 in blackjack. She said "hit" (and made the appropriate hand motion). Everyone at the table - including the dealer - tried to talk her out of it but she just wasn't listening. Sure enough the dealer gives her a 3 and she won. So she was feeling pretty darn smug.

What's my point? Just because something worked doesn't mean it was the right decision. And just because something didn't work doesn't mean it was the wrong one.

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Man, I really wish you were around before my first marriage...

PowerRunRevival said:

What? So you shouldn't take into account the outcome in deciding if a decision was correct? Do you live in the real world? Results matter?

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It makes 0 logical sense to use future information to analyze a decision. The decision was NOT made with this future information and thus cannot be used to analyze a decision. Of course analyzing a decision is different from discussing whether it worked out in the end or not.

Hindsight is always how you should analyze a past decision.

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100% false. For example in Poker you analyze decisions mainly based on percentages and expected value, regardless of outcome. Losing $100K on a single hand in no-limit texas hold-em can very easily be the outcome of a GOOD decision.

If I sold my fictitious house bought lottery tickets and won 10 million dollars you can tell me it's a terrible decision all you want while I throw things at your tiny house from my castle. Results matter. Making a good decision that didn't work is entirely useless.

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Unless you have a crystal ball that decision will NEVER be a GOOD decision, even though you are happy you made a stupid decision it doesn't make the decision correct.

Teenuh said:

Unfortunately, snide little insults are about the extent of Jack's ability to interact with others.

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I'll interact substantively with those who are worth the time and energy to interact with. You've already proven yourself not to be one of those people. At this point, my interaction with you is mostly of the "point and laugh" variety.