If you had a chance, what would you ask Belichick about the Moss trade?

Re: If you had a chance, what would you ask Belichick about the Moss trade ?

jmt57 said:

How about this: why didn't he do this prior to the draft last spring?

Did he sit down and talk to Randy about the team's plans with him, the CBA, etc., and let him know where the team stood, and get a feel for where Randy was at when the '09 season ended? If not, why not; did he feel from previous discussions it would not be an issue? At what point did it become an issue, and what was the tipping point?



Unfortunately we won't get any of those answers until after Belichick retires and agrees to have the next Halberstam write his biography.

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Why trade Randy prior to the draft? At that time Randy wanted a new contract, but he wasn't even near the head of the list. What would the board's reaction have been to trading Randy last Spring coming off an 83 reception season? Look at the meltdown over a receiver on track for 36 catches this season!

Does BB sit down and talk to every player about their contract status, CBA, etc.? He talks about how the team will use them, but Randy already knew that answer.

Was there any question about where Randy was at following the 2009 season? He wanted a new contract and said as much last winter. He also said this was his last season with NE, which might have just been hyperbole in an attempt to use the media and fans to pressure NE, but let's ask Randy, BS or intent?

It became an issue when Randy tried to push to the head of the list following Brady's contract. It became an issue when Randy reportedly asked to be traded following game one. Was that gamesmanship? Sucks to be him, he got what he asked for.

Re: If you had a chance, what would you ask Belichick about the Moss trade ?

PatsFanSince74 said:

I'd ask him to what extent he took responsibility for why the situation got to the point where he had to make what is obviously a very bad deal.

I'd then ask him to what extent O'Brien and the Patriots top management shared that responsibility.

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Obviously a bad deal? NE just pulled in the equivalent of a three round value jump (2012 5th Rd comp pick = a 2011 6th) for a receiver on track for a 36 reception season. :confused2:

Re: If you had a chance, what would you ask Belichick about the Moss trade ?

Jesus, if i got to sit down in front of BB and ask him questions. Damn, Moss wouldn't come up in my first five questions. Perhaps in my second 5, but not the first.

Mt biggest question right now would be."BB, WTF? we have 8 picks in the first 4 rounds next year. What are we going to do with them?" Parlay them into higher pick or use them to get a better team this year.

Re: If you had a chance, what would you ask Belichick about the Moss trade ?

Well if the topic allows questions aside from the Moss Insanity, I'd strap BB to a waterboard device with electrodes on his nuts and ask...

Re: If you had a chance, what would you ask Belichick about the Moss trade ?

I'd ask if him how it felt signing a guy to play for a 3 year deal and only getting 2 years out of him I'd ask him if we had signed him to another 3 year extension if he thought we would only get 2 out of him again.

Re: If you had a chance, what would you ask Belichick about the Moss trade ?

Box_O_Rocks said:

Randy Moss was on track for 36 receptions and 12 TDs.

Last season he had 83 receptions and 13 TDs.

Traded Moss = -9 TDs

Welker is on track for 12 TDs, he had 4 in 2009: +8
Special Teams have 3 TDs, 0 in 2009: +3
Tight Ends in 2009, 7 TDs, Gronkowski is on track for 8: +1

NE projects to make up those lost Moss TDs, and I'm betting Hernandez (18 rec) and Tate (11 rec) can get closer to 83 receptions than Randy was going to.

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I think it's possible to pick any four games in any season and read whatever you want into them. But, the bigger issues are how Moss affects the game-planning of other teams and his big play potential at all times.

In his first four games last year, he had one TD; was he "on track" for four TD's?

In his first four games in 2008, he had two TD's; was he "on track" for eight?

If you take out 2007 (23 TD's), over his entire career Moss has averaged 11.4 TD's a season. You just can't measure his impact on a team or a game using statistics the way you are trying to use them. Moss raised the level of the entire Pats attack.

Let's stop trying to pretend that this isn't a serious loss.

Belichick did what he had to do, given the extent to which the situation between Moss and the team had deteriorated, but it wasn't a desirable outcome or one for which anyone would have reasonably planned.

Re: If you had a chance, what would you ask Belichick about the Moss trade ?

Nope

It's obvious
A malcontent seeking a late career contract.
BB knows he can't compete at the highest level this year.
Stockpiling draft choices to survive the lockout next year.
Kraft senior and junior applaud the cash savings

Any doubt?
See Mankins

How's the rental on Patriot Place doing boys?

Enjoy 7-9

Re: If you had a chance, what would you ask Belichick about the Moss trade ?

Moss + 7th for a 3rd rounder. Clearly this wasn't a case of trade-value being high for a player they weren't going to extend.

Most people are assuming there was some massive blowout and behind the scenes terror that caused BB to pull the trigger, and the headphones + not a captain leads credence to it. But there may be some more respectful discussions here than we are guessing.

Deep passes to Moss are inherently a high risk high reward situation. Quick valuable points being the reward. With a young defense that requires extensive coaching, the clock control factor becomes more important for the offense. BB is frequently talking to the defense on the sidelines during offensive drives and the quick-strike mentality may get in the way of that.

We know that Moss wasn't going to get an extension this season from the Patriots, they haven't offered him anything to this point. If the offensive strategy needed less quick-strike attacks, that leaves Moss in a situation where his stats would be decreased in a contract year. So he would be left out of his ideal situation playing with Brady in 2011+ and he would be left with less options/bargaining position because of his "decline".

What leads me to believe that there was less Moss "pouting" than we are led to believe is the fact that he was still running full out in the 2nd half and reports were that he was fine with the team after the game.

So I would simply ask Belichick, WHY? He can elaborate on everything from there

Re: If you had a chance, what would you ask Belichick about the Moss trade ?

What the f**k were you thinking?

Re: If you had a chance, what would you ask Belichick about the Moss trade ?

PatsFanSince74 said:

Let's stop trying to pretend that this isn't a serious loss.

Belichick did what he had to do, given the extent to which the situation between Moss and the team had deteriorated, but it wasn't a desirable outcome or one for which anyone would have reasonably planned.

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Let's also stop trying to pretend this is the end of the world or even the end of this season. This wasn't four random games plucked out of the middle of the season, but the four games we actually have as data to consider - Moss' 9 receptions apparently didn't compel Belichick to hesitate when Minnesota came calling.

Brady struggled last season, especially at the beginning. He looks more like the old healthy Brady this season and he clearly has more weapons to work with. Losing Moss takes away one aspect of the offense, one which may or may not be replicated to some extent by developing receivers.
-- Tate was projected as high as the first round before his injury,
-- Price reminds me of a fast David Givens,
-- Slater can be at least as good as Bethel Johnson,
-- Hernandez was used as a vertical threat by Florida,
-- none of them are Randy F. Moss, but they might be reasonable deep threats Tommy can use to stretch the field - heck, I'll lay odds even Slater proves to be better than Galloway.

Gronkowski and Crumpler provide big targets in the end zone. Hernandez has good size and is shifty quick in the short area. Tate will be interesting to watch in the red zone too. Just as NE has been able to plug other players into Faulk's various roles, so too can Moss' roles be replicated. I'm confident the offense will be just fine going forward and NE's main worry will still continue to be the inexperienced defense.

Re: If you had a chance, what would you ask Belichick about the Moss trade ?

Football is just like the military...adapt and overcome.

Fantasy football folders and geeks who think that because they won some bohump league nobody's ever heard of means their "opinion" is somehow more valid than the people who run a business in the REAL WORLD need to take a step back from the edge of insanity.

Re: If you had a chance, what would you ask Belichick about the Moss trade ?

Joker said:

Football is just like the military...adapt and overcome.

Fantasy football folders and geeks who think that because they won some bohump league nobody's ever heard of means their "opinion" is somehow more valid than the people who run a business in the REAL WORLD need to take a step back from the edge of insanity.

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Aye Aye Sir. Semper Fi Mac. Semper Paralysis - oops, that was the other motto. Ooorah!

Re: If you had a chance, what would you ask Belichick about the Moss trade ?

Box_O_Rocks said:

Let's also stop trying to pretend this is the end of the world or even the end of this season. This wasn't four random games plucked out of the middle of the season, but the four games we actually have as data to consider - Moss' 9 receptions apparently didn't compel Belichick to hesitate when Minnesota came calling.

"stop trying to pretend this is the end of the world..." Those are your words, not mine. It's not the "end of this season," but it's also not a good thing.

Belichick didn't hesitate because of Moss' productivity, however it is measured, but because he had no choice. The situation had deteriorated to the point where he had no other option. That's a management "Fail" from top to bottom, from Kraft to BB to O'Brien and it's what gave rise to the "question" I'd ask the Coach.

My point is simple and stands: there is no way that it can be spun that the Pats are better off now or that this was a good move based on badly manipulated stats, which I think I pretty well called out and debunked in my earlier post.

Brady struggled last season, especially at the beginning. He looks more like the old healthy Brady this season and he clearly has more weapons to work with. Losing Moss takes away one aspect of the offense, one which may or may not be replicated to some extent by developing receivers.
-- Tate was projected as high as the first round before his injury,
-- Price reminds me of a fast David Givens,
-- Slater can be at least as good as Bethel Johnson,
-- Hernandez was used as a vertical threat by Florida,
-- none of them are Randy F. Moss, but they might be reasonable deep threats Tommy can use to stretch the field - heck, I'll lay odds even Slater proves to be better than Galloway.

Those are all reasonable and possible, but don't change the fact that we were better off with Moss.

Gronkowski and Crumpler provide big targets in the end zone. Hernandez has good size and is shifty quick in the short area. Tate will be interesting to watch in the red zone too. Just as NE has been able to plug other players into Faulk's various roles, so too can Moss' roles be replicated. I'm confident the offense will be just fine going forward and NE's main worry will still continue to be the inexperienced defense.

Once again, reasonable and possible, but by no means highly probable. As I posted elsewhere, the Pats will adapt. Unfortunately, they will have to adapt on the ground against Baltimore, San Diego, Pittsburgh and Minnesota. That is not a good scenario since we can't ask for a "time out" until Thanksgiving.

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See above.

Re: If you had a chance, what would you ask Belichick about the Moss trade ?

I would question the evaluation. I still can't wrap my head around getting a 3rd to give up Moss and a 7th.

Vikings are in desperation mode, have Favre for maybe 1 more year, no Rice, and no V Jax. Surely we could have got at least a 2nd? If not, open up the offers to 30 others teams... drive up the value. It's Randy Moss. I don't care about the distractions, etc. Teams will want him.

If things turn around for the Vikes, the 3rd rounder next year may be the same as a ****ty teams 4th... Why not throw a clause in there.

Re: If you had a chance, what would you ask Belichick about the Moss trade ?

BrockSolid said:

I would question the evaluation. I still can't wrap my head around getting a 3rd to give up Moss and a 7th.

Vikings are in desperation mode, have Favre for maybe 1 more year, no Rice, and no V Jax. Surely we could have got at least a 2nd? If not, open up the offers to 30 others teams... drive up the value. It's Randy Moss. I don't care about the distractions, etc. Teams will want him.

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I definitely heard yesterday that a third was as high as ANYONE would consider.

Re: If you had a chance, what would you ask Belichick about the Moss trade ?

IcyPatriot said:

I would ask Bill if it was a 'straight trade homie' ...

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You guys crack me up around here sometimes!

"Unbiased" outsider here... I'm not terribly shocked Moss is let go, however, it's astounding it was done for a 3rd round pick. Minn is a desperate team. And NE just got raped by a desperate team. It should have been the other way around....you guys had the cards, not them. There must be more to this (as everyone on this board has said). Although Im happy SD wont have to face Moss w/in the conference, it's amazing BB let him go for nothing! BTW.....VJ wont be going to NE. It wont happen. Unless BB is still feeling exceptionally generous of course.

Re: If you had a chance, what would you ask Belichick about the Moss trade ?

I would ask a Brian Lamb type of question, like "where'd you get that shirt?"

Re: If you had a chance, what would you ask Belichick about the Moss trade ?

Bella*chick said:

I definitely heard yesterday that a third was as high as ANYONE would consider.

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Curious how anyone would know that information? I don't recall a statement from the Patriots being sent out to the league that he was available?

When multiple offers from multiple teams are on the table, the value rises. I have only heard about the vikings.. I bet a ton of other teams fighting for a championship this year would be interested.

Re: If you had a chance, what would you ask Belichick about the Moss trade ?

BrockSolid said:

Curious how anyone would know that information? I don't recall a statement from the Patriots being sent out to the league that he was available?

When multiple offers from multiple teams are on the table, the value rises. I have only heard about the vikings.. I bet a ton of other teams fighting for a championship this year would be interested.

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I don't know....lots of stuff was flying around yesterday. But I definitely heard it.