What Super Bowl champs were built around a dominant WR?

PonyExpress · Oct 14, 2006

DCPatsFan said:
There is no way BB and the Pats would deal for Randy Moss - it just isn't going to happen

There's no way BB would draft a RB in the 1st rd... there's no way BB would trade for Corey Dillon... There's no way BB would release Lawyer Milloy a week before the season... There's no way BB would let the Pats top two receivers leave the same year... There's no way BB would draft a TE in the 1st rd two years after drafting a TE in the 1st rd... There's no way BB would trade for J. Sullivan... There's no way BB would bring Charles Rogers in for a workout... There's no way BB would have Eric Warfield into training camp... There's no way BB would lose on purpose to the Dolphins...

Fencer · Oct 14, 2006

PonyExpress said:
In 40 Super Bowls, only 7 have been won without a HOF or multiple probowl receiver in his prime on the roster. Curiously, on 5 of those occasions, BB has been an integral part of the team! The only two other "exceptions" were arguably the two greatest defenses in the history of football, the '85 Bears and the '00 Ravens.

1966: Carrol Dale (3 Pro Bowls)
1967: Boyd Dowler (2 Pro Bowls)
1968: Don Maynard HOF
1969: Otis Taylor HOF
1970: Roy Jefferson (3 Pro Bowls)
1971: Bob Hayes (3 Pro Bowls) and Lance Alworth HOF
1972: Paul Warfield HOF
1973: Paul Warfield HOF
1974: Stallworth HOF Swann HOF
1975: Stallworth HOF Swann HOF
1976: Fred Biletnikoff HOF and Cliff Branch (4 Pro Bowls)
1977: Drew Pearson (3 Pro Bowls)
1978: Stallworth HOF Swann HOF
!979: Stallworth HOF Swann HOF
1980: Cliff Branch (4 pro bowls)
1981: Dwight Clark (2 Pro Bowls)
1982: Art Monk (3 pro bowls)
1983: Cliff Branch (4 PBs)
1984: Dwight Clark (2 probowls)
1985: none
1986: none
1987: Gary Clark (4 probowls)
1988: Jerry Rice HOF
1989: Jerry Rice HOF
1990: none
1991: Gary Clark (4 probowls)
1992: Michael Irvin (5 probowls)
1993: Michael Irvin (5 probowls)
1994: Jerry Rice HOF
1995: Michael Irvin (5 probowls)
1996: Antonio Freeman (2 probowls)
1997: Rod Smith (3 PBs)
1998: Rod Smith (3 PBs)
1999: Torry Holt (4 PBs), Isaac Bruce (4 PBs)
2000: none
2001: none
2002: K. Johnson (3 PBs)
2003: none
2004: none
2005: Hines Ward (4 PBs)

This remarkable "coincidence" illustrates why BB places so little value on the WR position. However... BB is a chameleon. If the team can be improved, he can change styles. If Randy Moss is available IMO the Pats should acquire him. Time may have diminished his skills somewhat, but also matured him to the point where he could be integrated into a near championship caliber roster. Moss could complement Brady as he enters his QBing prime, Maroney would face weakened defensive fronts, hopefully Chad Jackson could become a #2 able to transition to a #1 as Moss' contract expires in two years, Ben Watson would have room to stretch the field as he develops, and the O would be unstoppable and affordable in salary cap terms for the next 4 years. Great receivers, while not the sine qua non of SB Champion teams, obviously make the road to victory a hell of alot easier. Oakland acquired Moss for the #7 overall pick + a 7th rd pick + a starting LBer. Because the Pats 2007 1st rd pick will likely be a late rdr, IMO Al Davis wouldn't part with Moss unless the Pats fork over a minimum of a 1st + a 2nd/3rd pick. I would consummate that deal. It would still leave the Pats with at least 2 1st day selections (depending on Givens' compensation). The draft appears to be a bit weak on the high end this year anyway. If by some good fortune BB can pry Moss from Oakland for less, all the better.

Great data assembly! ... I'd also point out that Brady and Phil Simms are very similar in QBing style. Arguably Hostetler too, despite his superior athleticism to Simms. Arguably Dilfer too, despite not being on Brady's or even Simms' level. ... That said, Montana is also of the same style; he just happened to have Jerry Rice. ... McMahon, on the other hand, as just a fun-loving mediocrity in the right place at the right time ...

RayClay · Oct 14, 2006

PonyExpress said:
In 40 Super Bowls, only 7 have been won without a HOF or multiple probowl receiver in his prime on the roster. Curiously, on 5 of those occasions, BB has been an integral part of the team! The only two other "exceptions" were arguably the two greatest defenses in the history of football, the '85 Bears and the '00 Ravens.

Excellent post, too long to quote but i wanted to give you props.

I'm not putting down receivers like that Cold hard facts site. As a matter of fact I remember when great receivers were more important than they are now.

QBs threw long and ran the ball. Average yds. per catch was higher and percentages were lower. Teams didn't use 5 wides generally.

Obviously, my point does hold for recent teams. Rod Smith was and is a great receiver, but he didn't make the pro bowl until his team won 2 Super Bowls, I believe and he was an undrafted free agent.

As much as I respect Rod Smith and he kills us, Terrel Davis's addition was the largest factor in turning that team into a Champion.

Certainly, players who help their teams win it all tend to go to more Pro Bowls.

I also agree that Belichick will do anything to make the team better. But he's not a gambler. If there's a good chance he might create problems on a team that's just starting to gel, it depends on the risk/reward ratio.

I'm not aware that Al Davis wants to give him away, or that he wants to play for 1/3 of his salary.

Giving up a #1 and Richard Seymour money for a guy who left on a bad note twice, (he's already saying he doesn't care, so I consider that a bad note).

People have mentioned Jerry Rice. I'd love a shot at Jerry Rice in his prime. The consumate professional, high character and a winner all the way.

Pretty much the opposite of Moss's character. The exact opposite.

Honestly, he doesn't have 1/2 the athletic ability of Moss.

RayClay · Oct 14, 2006

PATRIOT64 said:
Without Jerry Rice you would have to wonder how many Super Bowls the 49ers would have won or how Montana would have been considered the best ever...Simply he and Jerry were unstoppable for so long its hard to imagine what it would have been like without Rice there...Same for Aikman who I think would be far less of a Hall Of Fame material without Irvin,Bradshaw without Swann or Stallworth - Usually behind every great Hall Of Fame quarterback stands a Hall Of Fame type receiver.
If Brady never has that kind of WR game changing player to throw to continually year after year while he is still able to play young,it will be a misjustice for what we are witnessing as likely the best QB ever to play the game,we need to get lucky in the draft or some type of awesome trade next year to give Tom that luxury all the past greats have had - (this goes without saying IF Chad Jackson can't do it by next year we will need to get someone else who will)- Tom deserves that just like all the other HOFers did. - For this year we go with what we have and hope its enough to go all the way,It will only make Tom better when he hopefully has a true legitimate threat to throw to next year whether it is from within the roster or is on the outside looking to get in.

They did win the Super Bowl the year before Rice came. Great quarterbacks make great receivers too.

A lot of people say Peyton deserves a ring. I don't think he deserves diddly.

Brady's got three rings. He deserves them.

Culpepper had the great Randy Moss in his prime. He's a scrub now.

The only thing that matters is winning Super Bowls.

primetime · Oct 14, 2006

RayClay said:
People have mentioned Jerry Rice. I'd love a shot at Jerry Rice in his prime. The consumate professional, high character and a winner all the way.

Funny, because my impression of Rice is that he's an egotistical a-hole, or at least became one in the latter stages of his career. He has a habit of sticking his nose in places it doesn't belong.

Doesn't change the fact he's the greatest football player of all time though, and there's no doubt I wouldn't have wanted him in his prime (or even past his prime when he was still a top 10 wideout).

There's no doubt I'd want Randy Moss for Tom Brady, either. Character issues aside, Moss is a freak of nature. Huge size, blinding speed, great hands... and maybe, just maybe, the Pats can tame him. TO may work and play harder but Moss is hardly the team destroyer that he is, nor is he a walking sideshow.

brady2brown · Oct 14, 2006

RayClay said:
My point is what teams have won super Bowls by building around a super star receiver?

The 2006 Oakland Raiders? The 2005 Cardinals? The 2004 Lions?

broadwayjoe said:
maybe the future Super Bowl titles won't come down to field goals.

Start adding $10 million dollar WRs to hte roster and you won't have to worry about Superbowls.

Johnny Z · Oct 14, 2006

If randy Moss is on your team you will lose a playoff game - write it down.

He can't take the pressure of the playoffs.

JoeSixPat · Oct 14, 2006

RayClay said:
We're talking about a salary comparable to Seymour and it's not going to weaken us elsewhere?

We can definately afford another Seymour-esque salary given the rising cap - rumored to be in the $112 million range next year.

So a player worth that much will not weaken us at all - unless you think Seymour's price tag weakens us.

But the point is whether Moss is worth that salary slot and I say he's not.

Oh, and on the topic of the thread, quite a few SBs teams have had dominent WRs...

"built around?" no - but no one's suggested we build around Moss or any other WR for that matter.

DCPatsFan · Oct 14, 2006

PonyExpress said:
There's no way BB would draft a RB in the 1st rd... there's no way BB would trade for Corey Dillon... There's no way BB would release Lawyer Milloy a week before the season... There's no way BB would let the Pats top two receivers leave the same year... There's no way BB would draft a TE in the 1st rd two years after drafting a TE in the 1st rd... There's no way BB would trade for J. Sullivan... There's no way BB would bring Charles Rogers in for a workout... There's no way BB would have Eric Warfield into training camp... There's no way BB would lose on purpose to the Dolphins...

Moss takes plays off, he's overpaid, and the price to acquire him would be too high, I assume. Maybe Al Davis would throw in Porter as well. By the way, why would the Raiders deal him in the first place?

Kdo5 · Oct 14, 2006

We are 4-1...so I dont really wanna risk our season going very good so far over a primma donna WR no matter how good he is.

DCPatsFan · Oct 14, 2006

Kdo5 said:
We are 4-1...so I dont really wanna risk our season going very good so far over a primma donna WR no matter how good he is.

I agree. I know he's only 29, but I just get the feeling with Moss that his best days are behind him. To be fair, it's difficult to judge him since Oakland's offense is so ineffective.

Patjew · Oct 14, 2006

Maybe a better way to consider this is thinking about the possibility of Moss going to one of our big rivals. If you'd be happy to see that happen, you clearly don't want him here. If you thought it could hurt the Pats, then perhaps you'd want him here, even if you won't admit it.

But I will admit it- I want him here.

Edit- PS: I'm addressing this to everyone, not a single individual.

brady2brown · Oct 14, 2006

JoeSixPat said:
So a player worth that much will not weaken us at all - unless you think Seymour's price tag weakens us.

THis makes no sense. There are over a dozen players out there worth $10 mil. Try to add them without weakening us.

We have a couple of monster players on O and D, each with big contracts.

But adding other monster contracts will definately weaken us. See Miguel's cap page as to why we cannot add 51 $10 million players.

I think Seymour's price tag does not weaken us a bit. I do think taking $10 mil out for Moss will weaken us a lot.

What Super Bowl champs were built around a dominant WR?

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primetime

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JoeSixPat

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