We Are Counting On Lots Of Rookies

BradyFTW! said:

2005 was a poor draft? If Mankins, Kaczur, Sanders, Hobbs, and Wright (UDFA) is a poor haul, then every team in the NFL sucks at drafting. There are a lot of teams that would kill to get one all-pro and four starters/borderline starters out of a draft.

2005 and 2008 were fine, it's 2006-2007 that was kinda weak, and I won't really fault the Pats for 2007 either since they did get Welker and Moss out of it. The poor drafting angle is severely overplayed.

And in case anyone's forgotten, the SB teams relied heavily on first and second year guys to win titles. Players like Seymour, Brady, Light, Wilson, Samuel, Warren, Wilfork, Branch, and Givens all contributed a lot from very early on in their careers.

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I think what some of us are saying is that those GLORY years had a nucleus of great veterans and leadership quality guys who helped nurture and lead thier new teamates into becoming a quality pro easier than most teams had on thier roster and those key guys were mentors I am sure to the young guys to learn the game as if they were in the league for years,not to forget of how much Romeo meant as a great coach to the young defenders.

There is little to no leadership on this years defense and the rookies are going to have to do it differently then when those core group of guys surrounded them with the right mix of youth and veteran knowledge in those SB years,Pretty much the rookies will rely on thier own field of presence and knowledge of this system and either prosper or not off of it,I really dont see any guy on defense whose shoulders a rookie can lay his head on - Wilfork is probably the closest to that type of player.

Like just about all of us,we see some great veteran teammates on offense helping each other acclimate to the pros and it shows with our young TEs and OTs who are working pretty well together...the defense isn't so fortunate at this time and are missing something the offense seems to not have.

These rookies on defense will need to grow up fast.

UofApatsfan said:

Lets not be so sure about that. In the regular season they were 8-0 last year at home, 1-6 on the road, and 1-0 at a neutral site. They are clearly a WAY better team at home. Regardless of that, there's always one team that makes home field extremely important, the Colts. Making the Colts have to beat them at an outdoors stadium away from the dome they pump noise into is reason enough to value HFA.

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Who says the Colts are a shoo-in for the playoffs?...I don't

I think the Texans or even the Titans will be quite the challenge for Pay-A-Ton and Co. - The Texans had a good smell of the playoff bubble last year and the Titans were a different team with Young.

PATRIOTSFANINPA said:

There is little to no leadership on this years defense.

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To quote a past president, once again, we are rosifying the past and mis-underestimating the present. We don't know that what goes one between the vets of the past is much different than what will go on this year with the vets of the present (Wilfork, TBC, Warren, Mayo, Bodden, Sanders et al). We just don't know.

betterthanthealternative said:

To quote a past president, once again, we are rosifying the past and mis-underestimating the present. We don't know that what goes one between the vets of the past is much different than what will go on this year with the vets of the present (Wilfork, TBC, Warren, Mayo, Bodden, Sanders et al). We just don't know.

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Just out of curiousity.....

We knew last year. We talked about it on numerous occasions. Why are we somehow unable to know this year?

PATRIOTSFANINPA said:

Who says the Colts are a shoo-in for the playoffs?...I don't

I think the Texans or even the Titans will be quite the challenge for Pay-A-Ton and Co. - The Texans had a good smell of the playoff bubble last year and the Titans were a different team with Young.

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I never said anything about them being a shoe in, I'm saying they alone present a reason why HFA is important. Winning a playoff game in Indy is something Brady has never never done and is something all teams don't wanna have to do, especially since Indy is a completely different team when they're playing outdoors.

i love the fact that this team is so young i was geting sick of all the galloway and 40 year old Seau, type player if that vet ant going to have any impact on the season at all then bring on the rookies

mgteich said:

There is always turnover. As akways, we are counting on free agents and 2nd year players for significant meaningful reps.

However, it does seem that, even before the season starts, we are counting on rookies much more than normal. At this point, it would be a dissapointment if we don't have significant contributions from 5 of our top 7 rookies. I suspect that this board will be disappointed if we don't get signifcant contributions from 6 of the top 7.

In some sense, we are COUNTING ON rookie production at tight end and at punter.

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I'm comforted in the fact that the rookies have an extra coach ... Tom Brady to help and guide them. Also they have Wes and Randy to help them. These rookies are in a perfect situation - if the term exists that is - they are in one.

As for Mesko - we don't rely heavily on our punter so I think he'll be eased in as need be. The best he can give us will be seen by seasons end and the years after. He may be a lethal weapon but he does not have to be right now.

PATRIOTSFANINPA said:

Heres the problem...those rookies were surrounded by veteran and all pro type players and great locker room influences....there are no Vrabels,McGinests or Bruschis around to help make the transition easier for them....much more difficult now IMO

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But they do have Tom Brady's, Randy Moss's, Matt Light's Dan Koppen's and Vince Wilfork's.

Let's review. Just a couple of years ago, the defense had Seymour, Wilfork, Warren, Bruschi, Vrabel and Harrison for leadership. Now we have Wilfork.

mgcolby said:

But they do have Tom Brady's, Randy Moss's, Matt Light's Dan Koppen's and Vince Wilfork's.

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mgteich said:

Let's review. Just a couple of years ago, the defense had Seymour, Wilfork, Warren, Bruschi, Vrabel and Harrison for leadership. Now we have Wilfork.

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Let's read the inital post, where he only listed defensive leaders when talking about offensive youngsters.

Try to keep up!

I said after the season ended that this team needed to sign some veterans in free agency. Too many times last season the defense just couldn't find a way to finish games. This offseason they signed Crumpler and focused mainly on existing players. Now it's purely up to the young players to show they learned something through their experiences. If not then we're in for another tough season.

I did write the initial post.

We have 7 top rookies, 3 on defense, 3 on offense and 1 on special teams.

The offensive players have plenty of leaders to learn from. All three (plus Tate from last year) are receivers and they have Brady, Moss, Welker and Crumpler (and Faulk) to learn from and as role models.

It is the 3 defensive players drafted this year and the 5 defensive rookies from last year who have no role models or veteran leadership except for Wilfork.

mgcolby said:

Let's read the inital post, where he only listed defensive leaders when talking about offensive youngsters.

Try to keep up!

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mgteich said:

Let's review. Just a couple of years ago, the defense had Seymour, Wilfork, Warren, Bruschi, Vrabel and Harrison for leadership. Now we have Wilfork.

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So in other words, they aren't leaders unless they are Pro Bowlers? Because I see at least six guys on the team who have been in the league for at least three years who are already at the level of being a leader if not outright leaders: Wilfork, Merriweather, Sanders, TBC, Bodden, Wright. That does not include the likes of Mayo who has assumed a role of leadership on the team despite this being his third season...

They aren't all Pro Bowlers, but they don't have to be to be leaders on the defense.

Another year of growing pains isn't all bad. Let's face it, from 05-07 we did have plenty of leaders on defense and we didn't get the job done in the playoffs those years either. In '08, it was clearly time to start building a new base of leadership for when this team is ready to make a title run and I can understand a majority of the moves made.

Anything can happen in the NFL, but it's my opinion that we would need a 2001 type lighting-in-a-bottle run to return to glory this year. Even though the OL has held up this preseason they're still a question mark IMO and DL is a potential weakness. As good as Brady and his new weapons are, you only go as far as your line play in January. OLB is another major concern at an important position. For the first time in a while I've tempered my expectations to the point where I'd be satisfied with a playoff appearance. But I don't think we're all that far off, unless the past 2 drafts wind up being major disappointments.

If you think that the current defensive veteran leadership is a strong as three years ago, than you are certainly entitled to your position.

Let's look at the secondary. In what way do you think of Meriweather as a leade?. He IS an probowler, but I don't for a minute think of him as a secondary leader and role model, as Harrison was. Do you disagree? Yes, James Sanders is indeed the leader of the secondary on and off the field. I didn't want to mention him because many here would cut or trade him in a heartbeat. In what way is Bodden a field or lockerroom leader?

Has Banta-Cain become a leader in one year on the team? He has replaced the leadership of Bruschi AND Vrabel in his one year? Really?
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Many thought that one of the major problems in 2009 was the loss of veteran leadership from the players. Do you disagree? I do think that this aspect of the game is overrated. After all, leadership and teaching is the job of the coaches. But to the degree that leadership is important, the defense have felt a loss compared to 3-5 years ago.

efin98 said:

So in other words, they aren't leaders unless they are Pro Bowlers? Because I see at least six guys on the team who have been in the league for at least three years who are already at the level of being a leader if not outright leaders: Wilfork, Merriweather, Sanders, TBC, Bodden, Wright. That does not include the likes of Mayo who has assumed a role of leadership on the team despite this being his third season...

They aren't all Pro Bowlers, but they don't have to be to be leaders on the defense.

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mgteich said:

If you think that the current defensive veteran leadership is a strong as three years ago, than you are certainly entitled to your position.

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Since when did it become a requirement that the be as strong? They have leadership, they have experienced guys there to show the rookies and youngsters the ropes. When you are constantly comparing them to their predecessors especially ones who were as outstanding as they were and not taking them for what they are in their own right you are never going to see what they truly are.

They aren't those guys, they never will be. They are their own leaders, their own style of leadership, their own level of leadershipj.

Let's look at the secondary. In what way do you think of Meriweather as a leade?. He IS an probowler, but I don't for a minute think of him as a secondary leader and role model, as Harrison was. Do you disagree? Yes, James Sanders is indeed the leader of the secondary on and off the field. I didn't want to mention him because many here would cut or trade him in a heartbeat. In what way is Bodden a field or lockerroom leader

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From what I have heard and read about him and by him, Merriweather already is a leader and role model in the secondary. He has Cut/trade/keep, Sanders is still there. Until he is gone he is still the leader. Bodden has been acknowleged as being one of the leaders on the secondary and he has stated to the media that he will try to be a leader for the team.

Has Banta-Cain become a leader in one year on the team? He has replaced the leadership of Bruschi AND Vrabel in his one year? Really?

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Not his one year, he has been in the league for eight years, six of which were with the Patriots. Banta-Cain has already embraced trying to be a leader on the defense, he is trying to take on the role actively. You intentionally ignored the Mayo reference, when he stated in March that he wants to be a leader on the team and he has shown leadership on the field already.

Many thought that one of the major problems in 2009 was the loss of veteran leadership from the players. Do you disagree? I do think that this aspect of the game is overrated. After all, leadership and teaching is the job of the coaches. But to the degree that leadership is important, the defense have felt a loss compared to 3-5 years ago.

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They had guys thrust into the leadership role before they were ready or who were the wrong kind of leaders. They had guys who were overshadowing the leadership causing internal problems.

In the words of Vince Wilfork- they had to weed out the bad seeds from last year. Two of them that were either acknowleged or alleged to be bad seeds are long gone in Springs and Thomas. They cleaned house and found the guys who they want to lead the team, who are ready to lead the team, or who are already leaders on the team.


When people constantly try to compare the current team with guys from the past they will never live up to expectations- they have leaders. They have several leaders. What they need is people to take them for what they are and give them time to show what they can do before trying to chop them down for not being what they are never going to be- the same guys who are no longer there. Folks need to give these guys a chance to actually show what they can do as leaders before stating that they have no leaders or they aren't as good as their old leaders.

I think the reason we are seeing so many rookies this year is because the team hung onto so many veterans over the past several years. And for the same reason many are worried about the rookies this year is the reason why those teams avoided rookies in the past. Rookies make mistakes and cost teams games. Those past teams were SB contenders so they were much more willing to sign the veteran like Seau and go for it rather then build for the future. We are now paying for that opportunity. In my opinion it was worth it and I still have faith in the coaches, scouts and Brady to rebuild them into a SB contender. That may or may not be this year but I think it will be soon enough. This is an exciting group of kids and it should be fun watching them grow up.

Like it or not, until another Rodney or Bruschi emerges out of this defense, the lack-of-leadership drum is going to be beat to hell and back.

That is to say, we could be hearing it forever.

JMarr said:

Like it or not, until another Rodney or Bruschi emerges out of this defense, the lack-of-leadership drum is going to be beat to hell and back.

That is to say, we could be hearing it forever.

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Well, the players and staff made it abundantly clear that leadership was a major issue last year.

UofApatsfan said:

I never said anything about them being a shoe in, I'm saying they alone present a reason why HFA is important. Winning a playoff game in Indy is something Brady has never never done and is something all teams don't wanna have to do, especially since Indy is a completely different team when they're playing outdoors.

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LOL. Because...he's got a long history of losing to the Colts in the RCA dome in the playoffs.:bricks:
The only playoff game he played in Indy saw the D give up 32 second half points.