Wishful Thinking

PonyExpress · Sep 14, 2006

The swirling rumors of the Pats demise are nothing more than wishful thinking planted in the minds of media hacks by disgruntled former players and agents. This chorus seems like conventional wisdom, because the cycles of football supremacy have been shrinking since Dallas imploded in the 90s and the salary cap era began. However, what the conventionally wise fail to realize is the "cold-hearted" acts for which they criticize the Pats, along with under-the-radar development of home grown talent, have ensured the future of a real dynasty, one with multiple incarnations. BB's "so-called" ruthlessness is really relentless innovation; he has seamlessly morphed an old warhorse into a young stallion.The old guard led by McGinest and others have been gradually replaced by Wilfork, Watson, Maroney, Hobbs, Warren, and the national pundits are not yet fully aware how powerful the new guard can be. My trust in this regime has never been as strong as the day they traded Branch, hacking a diseased limb off an otherwise healthy, growing tree...:rocker:

Oswlek · Sep 14, 2006

PonyExpress said:
The swirling rumors of the Pats demise are nothing more than wishful thinking planted in the minds of media hacks by disgruntled former players and agents. This chorus seems like conventional wisdom, because the cycles of football supremacy have been shrinking since Dallas imploded in the 90s and the salary cap era began. However, what the conventionally wise fail to realize is the "cold-hearted" acts for which they criticize the Pats, along with under-the-radar development of home grown talent, have ensured the future of a real dynasty, one with multiple incarnations. BB's "so-called" ruthlessness is really relentless innovation; he has seamlessly morphed an old warhorse into a young stallion.The old guard led by McGinest and others have been gradually replaced by Wilfork, Watson, Maroney, Hobbs, Warren, and the national pundits are not yet fully aware how powerful the new guard can be. My trust in this regime has never been as strong as the day they traded Branch, hacking a diseased limb off an otherwise healthy, growing tree...:rocker:

You're preaching to the choir, my friend. When I hang out on more broad-NFL type boards, I try to help non-NE fans understand just this very thing. People always assume that, because some of the more visible guys are older (Harrison, Bruschi, Vrabel) that the team must be getting older. They couldn't be more wrong. With the exception of LB, every single position on NE's roster has either a starter or viable backup under 28.

In the trenches, where most knowledgable fans agree games are won, they have a ridiculous combo of youth and talent. For all the uproar about the WRs (and it is largely deserved, although I do think one of Gabriel of Jackson will calm it down) there is not one team in the league that can boast as many quality young players on the lines. An added bonus is that every single one of the major players is locked up for 3 more years, sans Koppen.

I may get crucified for saying this, but I agree with those anti-NE voices that say that NE is not a dynasty...yet. I don't think they have had the duration to qualify for that group yet, but they will. In my mind, the true Patriots dynasty began in 2003 and will run until 2010? 2013? Whatever. But when the book is closed (and sadly, it will some day) on the run this great team will have, there will be no doubt that they belong to be mentioned along with those teams.

NE's run is far from over. In reality it is going to peak over the next few years. And fans from other teams are just going to get even more pissed off. Oh well, I think I can handle the abuse.

QB12 · Sep 14, 2006

Very well said Pony Express!

QB12

patsox23 · Sep 14, 2006

good post. It'll be, Boston Museum of Science-like, "fun to find out."

Box_O_Rocks · Sep 14, 2006

Oswlek said:
With the exception of LB, every single position on NE's roster has either a starter or viable backup under 28.

Just to update your numbers...Tully Banta-Cain 8/28/1980

That BB is awfully sneaky wouldn't you say.

(I also have very high hope for Pierre Woods after watching him in preseason...)

Oswlek · Sep 14, 2006

Box_O_Rocks said:
Just to update your numbers...Tully Banta-Cain 8/28/1980

That BB is awfully sneaky wouldn't you say.

(I also have very high hope for Pierre Woods after watching him in preseason...)

Yeah, I know. But that is one of 4 LB positions.

Box_O_Rocks · Sep 14, 2006

Oswlek said:
Yeah, I know. But that is one of 4 LB positions.

Huh?

You may have to redraw your logic tree in this, were you addressing each position individually? or talking about each unit?

qbert · Sep 14, 2006

PonyExpress said:
The swirling rumors of the Pats demise are nothing more than wishful thinking planted in the minds of media hacks by disgruntled former players and agents. This chorus seems like conventional wisdom, because the cycles of football supremacy have been shrinking since Dallas imploded in the 90s and the salary cap era began. However, what the conventionally wise fail to realize is the "cold-hearted" acts for which they criticize the Pats, along with under-the-radar development of home grown talent, have ensured the future of a real dynasty, one with multiple incarnations. BB's "so-called" ruthlessness is really relentless innovation; he has seamlessly morphed an old warhorse into a young stallion.The old guard led by McGinest and others have been gradually replaced by Wilfork, Watson, Maroney, Hobbs, Warren, and the national pundits are not yet fully aware how powerful the new guard can be. My trust in this regime has never been as strong as the day they traded Branch, hacking a diseased limb off an otherwise healthy, growing tree...:rocker:

what is your favorite kool-aid flavor?

Franchise12 · Sep 14, 2006

thats exactly what ive been telling people. outside of new england,the patriots dont have as many household names, so when they lose guys like mcginest,branch, and vinatieri these "experts" think we have no good players left .what they fail to realize is the value we get from drafting. warren,maroney,wilfork,watson,hobbs, samuel,seymour,graham,wilson,koppen,light.while seymour is the only household name the others are great contributors in their own right with lesss exposure. we have guys on this team that are ready to emerge and become the new leaders and reknown players but more importantly,WINNERS. I've never lost faith in this team or organazation. it feels like 2001 all over again. Remember mcginest ,vinatieri,milloy, and brown were pretty much overall all unknowns going into that 2001 superbowl. I just get the feeling tha this new generation of BB drafted players will do the same, just wait.

Oswlek · Sep 14, 2006

Box_O_Rocks said:
Huh? You may have to redraw your logic tree in this, were you addressing each position individually? or talking about each unit?

Why do you have to make me get into such detail?

It was meant as a generic "unition". Does that make it a little clearer?

FloridaPatsFan · Sep 14, 2006

Oswlek said:
You're preaching to the choir, my friend. on more broad-NFL

NE's run is far from over. In reality it is going to peak over the next few years. And fans from other teams are just going to get even more pissed off. Oh well, I think I can handle the abuse.[/QUOTE

Agree completely.

I think BB frustrates the hell out of anyone who is not a Pats fan because he almost never shows emotion. He is very difficult to read. Even us die-hards can agree that we really don't know how that guy thinks most of the time.

The simple truth is BB is a chess master on the football field. He is at the peak of his career and his decline is still several years away. He is building a monster football RIGHT IN FRONT OF OUR EYES as we speak. Everything mentioned above is absolutely true.

BB is a genius. He is the undisputed king of head coaches. He may not have the parts to win every game, but he is NEVER going to be outcoached.

And most everybody will reluctantly agree on that simple fact even if they don't like it.

Box_O_Rocks · Sep 14, 2006

Oswlek said:
Why do you have to make me get into such detail?

It was meant as a generic "unition". Does that make it a little clearer?

Only to the extent that I'm not going to let you light the candles on my cake with your jellied gasoline generic lighter. :scared:

RAWKY · Sep 14, 2006

qbert said:
what is your favorite kool-aid flavor?

My fav is:

BB BERRY:

zippo59 · Sep 14, 2006

Maybe or maybe not.

But what I don't understand is how pundits compare big names leaving with the Cowboys dynasty when they started losing their players. The dynasties are apples to oranges. People said that there would never be a dynasty in the salary cap era, which is half true. There will be a dynasty (see Pats) but it will not be the traditional one. The older dynasties was the result of accumulation of talent and holdiong on to that talent. That is how they won, so obviously they would decline when they lose those players. The Pats dynasty does have the key players, Brady and Seymour, which the Pats have paid the big money to keep. But what is so different is that if you compare the three SB winning teams they are so different. This team has built a dynasty off of turnover, so I don't see how continuing that would mean its end. I would be worried if this team was paying big to hang on to the same players. That would mean the end of this dynasty.

AzPatsFan · Sep 14, 2006

Today's starting LB corps is actually younger then the LB corps fielded in 2001 2003, or 2004. Bet you didn't remember or know that.:bricks:

2006 vs 2001
Bruschi 33 vs Cox 33
Vrabel 31 vs Bruschi 30
Colvin 29 vs Phifer 33
TBC 26 vs McGinnest 34

The only difference in 2003 was Colvin 28 replaced Cox 34 and then Chatham 27 replaced Colvin 28 after the hip fracture. TJ 31 played sometimes but he was injured most of the time.

Ii agree the depth is older but that doesn't mean much as reserves can pace themselves in a rotation. Then experience versus raw youth decidedly comes down in favor of experience.:singing:

The ST nominal LBs are older, but those guys are not really LBs.

Wishful Thinking

PonyExpress

In the Starting Line-Up

Oswlek

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

QB12

In the Starting Line-Up

patsox23

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

Box_O_Rocks

PatsFans.com Supporter

Oswlek

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

Box_O_Rocks

PatsFans.com Supporter

qbert

On the Roster

Franchise12

On the Game Day Roster

Oswlek

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

FloridaPatsFan

Third String But Playing on Special Teams

Box_O_Rocks

PatsFans.com Supporter

RAWKY

On the Roster

zippo59

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

AzPatsFan

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal