Pats sign G Darnell Stapleton and CB Willingham, cut Farnham and Grady

Some considered a better NFL prospect at OG than LT. When we drafted him, I thought it was as a prospect at OG.

National Football League: NFL Draft 2009 - George Bussey

I suspect that Bussey has a shot to win the fourth OT position, especially given his ability to be an emergency LT.

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With regard to our "depth" at OT. We usually carry four OT's. We have four OT's on the roster, not counting Kaczur or Bussey.

KontradictioN said:

Didn't Bussey play a little guard in college? Box was always high on him (for whatever reason). With the depth at LT, I have to wonder if he's gotten any reps at guard.

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patsfan-1982 said:

what happen to box ? have not seen him on here since the draft

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His last posts came in mid-May but he popped in a couple of weeks ago without posting...can't see anything that would have angered him beyond forum politics and infighting that would drive him away so hopefully he simply took the summer off to enjoy the lull in the offseason talk.

Deus Irae said:

They've added 2 veteran guards to the team in about a week. You are welcome to believe that those actions are independent of the situation at the guard position. Others may not view it that way.

That's why I noted that it's a natural tie-in to the other thread.

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Two guards signed when it is revealed that they have a major INJURY to their SIGNED and IN CAMP guard when they have GAME on THURSDAY.

The signings have nothing to do with Mankins, but you are welcome to try to use this as a way of linking the two when they aren't related. I am not going to stroke your ego DI, find someone else to argue with.

nevermind........

mgteich said:

Some considered a better NFL prospect at OG than LT. When we drafted him, I thought it was as a prospect at OG.

National Football League: NFL Draft 2009 - George Bussey

I suspect that Bussey has a shot to win the fourth OT position, especially given his ability to be an emergency LT.

===============

With regard to our "depth" at OT. We usually carry four OT's. We have four OT's on the roster, not counting Kaczur or Bussey.

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He is a natural OG and there is a need at OG and he is the 5th OT when they need four OTs- why wouldn't he get a shot to be the backup at OG if it is known that he is able to play OG especially with the O-Line in a pinch at the moment? What is the downside to trying him out at OG during the preseason to gauge his effectiveness and ability to play there?

Bussey definitely has a chance at any of the three open OL roster spots.

efin98 said:

He is a natural OG and there is a need at OG and he is the 5th OT when they need four OTs- why wouldn't he get a shot to be the backup at OG if it is known that he is able to play OG especially with the O-Line in a pinch at the moment? What is the downside to trying him out at OG during the preseason to gauge his effectiveness and ability to play there?

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efin98 said:

Two guards signed when it is revealed that they have a major INJURY to their SIGNED and IN CAMP guard when they have GAME on THURSDAY.

The signings have nothing to do with Mankins, but you are welcome to try to use this as a way of linking the two when they aren't related. I am not going to stroke your ego DI, find someone else to argue with.

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Deus Irae said:

Adding yet another guard would seem to lead to a natural tie-in with this other thread:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/361133-how-worried-you-about-not-having-mankins.html

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Again, you apparently find no tie-in to the team bringing in veteran guards and the question as to how worried people are that Mankins is not in camp. You are more than welcome to think that way.

Others might think that the fact that Mankins is not in camp, the player replacing him is hurt, and the team has gone outside to get 2 veteran guards rather than staying pat with what they had is cause for concern. Hence the tie-in to that thread.

Deus Irae said:

Leftwich was sacked 3 times and had only 36 attempts in 2008. That Steelers line was terrible. It was giving up just better than a 10/1 ratio.

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Not the one and only Leftwich....... Holy S*%&, he got sacked behind that line too. Well, now you've sold me.

Leftwich straight up SUCKS... Let's leave him out of the discussion and focus on their #1 guy behind that line.

Roethlisberger had 46 sacks in 2008. Hmmmm, seems like alot. Lets check the 4 years around that one.

2006 - 46
2007 - 47
2008 - 46
2009 - 50

Also, his sack % in 2008 was 8.7%, which was was the second lowest in his entire 6 yr. career.

Oh Geez, your right...... the 2008 line was particularly bad.


What's your point in all this. Should we throw 8M a year at Mankins?

Patriot_in_NY said:

Not the one and only Leftwich....... Holy S*%&, he got sacked behind that line too. Well, now you've sold me.

Leftwich straight up SUCKS... Let's leave him out of the discussion and focus on their #1 guy behind that line.

Roethlisberger had 46 sacks in 2008. Hmmmm, seems like alot. Lets check the 4 years around that one.

2006 - 46
2007 - 47
2008 - 46
2009 - 50

Also, his sack % in 2008 8.7% was the second lowest in his entire 6 yr. career.

Oh Geez, your right...... the 2008 line was particularly bad.


What's your point in all this. Should we throw 8M a year at Mankins?

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Someone was pinning the sacks on Roethlisberger. I was pointing out that the line was giving up the sacks when Leftwich was in there as well. It was pretty straightforward.


P.S. pro-football-reference.com has a sack% stat which is sack percentage: (times sacked)/(passing attempts + times sacked)

That has 2008 as the 3rd worst season (out of 6) for Sack% for Roethlisberger, along with 2009 and 2007.

Deus Irae said:

That has 2008 as the 3rd worst season (out of 6) for Sack% for Roethlisberger, along with 2009 and 2007.

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Check the SITE FOR YOURSELF. Here's his 6 year Sack%

2004 - 9.2%
2005 - 7.9% (his best year) - He also only played 12 games that year due to injury and had barely half the attempts from (2006-2009).
2006 - 8.9%
2007 - 10.4%
2008 - 8.9%
2009 - 9.0%

That's tied for second best (or, if you prefer 4th worst)

Now don't get me wrong, I ain't saying Stapleton is gonna be the next John Hannah or anything, but if he's healthy, he could certainly could be an adequate replacement at G, and possibly an upgrade over the "Kazur Experiment".

You're overall argument is terrible though....... Face it. Leftwich is a JAG and you really can't use his 38 attempts as reference as to "how bad" the line was. He had 58 attempts the year earlier in Atlanta and had 6 sacks. Granted, Atlanta Sucked in 2007, But his sack numbers on the 2005 Jags (who were 12-4) were't any better.

Bottom Line, Worthlessberger was the man in 2008 and it's hard to judge the "quality" of a guard based on how many times he got sacked in one year, because he has a 6 years of demonstration that shows that the dude get's sacked a lot. Anyone that watches him know. The guy holds the ball forever. Sometimes it works out great, sometimes he ends on his aZZ.

Bottom line, I'll judge Stapleton on what he does HERE, not on what he did 1 year in Pittsburgh protecting Big Ben.

sbpatfan said:

Could Stapleton be the first black guy on the Patriots offensive line?

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Bruce Armstrong and Brian Holloway were pretty good.

Patriot_in_NY said:

Check the SITE FOR YOURSELF. Here's his 6 year Sack%

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I did check the site myself. Go to the link and check sack %under advanced passing:

Ben Roethlisberger NFL & AFL Football Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

That notes 2008 as 3rd worst, not 2nd best.

As for the rest, you do what you will. As I noted, I was just responding to a poster who was blaming the sack numbers on Roethlisberger, and pointing out the Leftwich numbers.

mgteich said:

Some considered a better NFL prospect at OG than LT. When we drafted him, I thought it was as a prospect at OG.

National Football League: NFL Draft 2009 - George Bussey

I suspect that Bussey has a shot to win the fourth OT position, especially given his ability to be an emergency LT.

===============

With regard to our "depth" at OT. We usually carry four OT's. We have four OT's on the roster, not counting Kaczur or Bussey.

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Bussey ( along with Connelly ) were both offseason award winners for hardest work in the offseason program.

Deus Irae said:

I did check the site myself. Go to the link and check sack %under advanced passing:

Ben Roethlisberger NFL & AFL Football Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

That notes 2008 as 3rd worst, not 2nd best.

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Dude, that is a BS stat..... Use the more accurate one (as it relates to Oline performance) that's Sack% per drop back to pass (on the passing line), not some mumbo-jumbo mish-mosh of stats (which Advance Passing stats are).

Here are the numbers from that line.

2004 - 9.2%
2005 - 7.9%
2006 - 8.9%
2007 - 10.4%
2008 - 8.9%
2009 - 9.0%

Find the raw value (i.e. as in % of drop backs) and you get the number. In 2008, he was sacked 8.9% of the times he dropped back, which was (as I said) tied for the 2nd best in his career.

All your "Advanced Passing" Sack number shows is that his career Sack% number in that column is 80 (where 100 is "average"). It proves my point. The dude get sacked way more then normal.

SammyBlueCat said:

Bruce Armstrong and Brian Holloway were pretty good.

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I think Bruce Armstrong had some absurd streak of not being called for a penalty or something.

All I read about Stapleton says that he took over as starter in 08 due to injury to Kendall Simmons. He played mostly center before that in college. Then he got hurt and was out for a year. I can't really get excited about that, but hopefully he pushes other guys to play better at least.

I don't have a clue if this guy can play but to use sacks stats on Byron Leftwich (aka the slowest moving QB in NFL history) to judge him is beyond stupid.

BelichickFan said:

I don't have a clue if this guy can play but to use sacks stats on Byron Leftwich (aka the slowest moving QB in NFL history) to judge him is beyond stupid.

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Nobody was using sack stats on Leftwich to judge Stapleton.

Deus Irae said:

Nobody was using sack stats on Leftwich to judge Stapleton.

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You're right but the whole concept of trying to get an opinion on this guy based on Steeler sack numbers is crazy. If someone's seen him play, great, numbers won't tell you anything here.

BelichickFan said:

You're right but the whole concept of trying to get an opinion on this guy based on Steeler sack numbers is crazy. If someone's seen him play, great, numbers won't tell you anything here.

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You feel sacks allowed is an unimportant stat? Others don't agree with that take. For some, a guard allowing 5 sacks in 12 games, even if he did that as a member of the Super Bowl champion Steelers, would be a concern. Being non-tendered by the Steelers after a season spent on IR might increase that level of concern.