Who is the first Patriot with a Patriots SB ring to get inducted into the HOF

efin98 · Aug 8, 2010

Re: Who is the first Patriot with a Patriot SB ring to get inducted into the HOF

signbabybrady said:
And the great Derek Thomas.

Not the same as he wasn't elected by the veterans committee like those others were, he was elected outright by the normal selection committee in his fifth year of eligibility. It's the same case as Reggie White's election in 2006 when he was elected posthumously.

PatsFanSince74 · Aug 8, 2010

Re: Who is the first Patriot with a Patriot SB ring to get inducted into the HOF

fillylabinga said:
Good question since only Brady and BB are locks for the HOF and are still active...also those SB teams had a mix of players who had good stats and played for multiple teams (one route to the HOF) and players who were one-team guys and leaders who symbolized a great team (another route).

My thoughts...

Ted Washington didn't quite have the press or leadership rep to make it in a position that is not stat-friendly.

Willie McGinest has NE support and leadership but won't make it simlply because OLBs need tons of sacks.

Ty Law doesn't have the stats or a group like NE fans ready to go to bat for him (his last few years hurt his chances, IMO)

Corey Dillon has the stats so is close, but he played on a lot of bad teams and wasn't in NE long enough. If he had spent, say, 4 years in NE and won 2 SBs here I think he would make it. RB is also just too competitive a position (just ask poor Curtis Martin).

Centers is an interesting one, but RBs need to run not catch passes.

AV has a shot. If any kicker is going to the HOF it should be him. The snow game kick was the best I ever saw and I'm guessing a lot of voters feel that way. If kickers can't make the HOF then why have them anyway? I say he makes it. But as someone pointed out AV is still playing...

So I'm going with Rodney. He was a leader of 2 great defenses. He has the rings. NE loves him. By the time he is eligible the HGH thing and dirty player stigmas will have worn off. He's now a prominent media member which always helps (see: Jim Rice). And ultimately *someone* from those great NE defenses has to make the HOF.

So I say it's Rodney that makes it first. Great question.

Great analysis. I don't like it, but I have to agree with you on Washington, Willie, Ty and Centers. If I were forced to make a bet on which of the four makes it, it would be Law.

I think Dillon's case might just prove to be the luck of the draw, depending on who is up against him over a three or four year period. If I had to bet, I say he gets in as the memories of his bad teams fade.

I disagree on AV. He has more than "a shot." I think he goes in and fairly quickly. The Hall has only admitted one pure Placekicker (Stenerud) and none since 1991. The bar is high at that position and Adam's kicks in the Snow Bowl and SB XXXVI are iconic images not only for the Patriots but the NFL; the 45 yard line drive into the wind to tie the Snow Bowl is begrudgingly regarded by fans everywhere as the greatest kick under pressure in the history of the NFL. Number Four is a lock, IMO.

I agree on Rodney probably going in first. By working for ESPN he is coming in personal contact with a lot of the people who will either have a vote or who are close to those who do. I can't help but think his professionalism, smarts and presence in his new role will give enough doubters a chance to reevaluate their more "personal" assessments of him.

Ring 6 · Aug 8, 2010

Re: Who is the first Patriot with a Patriot SB ring to get inducted into the HOF

McGinest has 3 rings, a long successful career, a solid reputation and the post season sack record. That will help his cause signifiantly

PatsFanSince74 · Aug 8, 2010

Re: Who is the first Patriot with a Patriot SB ring to get inducted into the HOF

goheels22002 said:
,,,

Drew Bledsoe looks real competitive with guys like Jim Kelly and Phil Simms. Drew also gets bonus points for being a man when replaced by Brady and for winning the AFC Championship game with that drive in 2001-02. If Drew's not the back up, the Dynasty never gets started. What if BB had to go to Rohan Davie in that game? Yikes! Drew deserves lots of love from these parts for the leadership and his stats. 1996 SB never happens without Drew and Curtis and Tuna and BB and Vinatieri and McGinest and all of 'em.

I disagree. I've always been a big supporter of Drew out here, but the fact that Phil Simms isn't in the HOF actually works against him. Jim Kelly, for better or worse, did take a team to the SB four times (one of only six QB's ever to do so; the others, except for sure shot TB, are also all in Canton). Drew's stats and professionalism will get him serious discussion, but I don't see him being admitted.

ahmed · Aug 8, 2010

Re: Who is the first Patriot with a Patriot SB ring to get inducted into the HOF

Rodney Harrison was the first name that came to my mind... when you think about it not many from 2001-2004 years will make it to the Hall.

RayClay · Aug 8, 2010

Re: Who is the first Patriot with a Patriot SB ring to get inducted into the HOF

Obviously one of Andruzzi, Compton or Hochstein who kept Brady protected for three Super Bowls a feat that is no longer possible by anyone making less than 8 million dollars a year.

PatsFanSince74 · Aug 8, 2010

Re: Who is the first Patriot with a Patriot SB ring to get inducted into the HOF

goheels22002 said:
Drew Bledsoe is 6th all-time in completed passes and attempts, 7th all-time in passing yards and 13th in touchdowns. He holds the single season Patriots record in completions at 400 - 6th all time and 2 completions ahead of 2007 for Brady. Awesome enough?

Oh man, we've had threads on this that have gone on for hundreds of comments and I don't want to be part of hijacking this into another "Drew" thread. But, to answer your question, Awesome? Yes. Awesome enough to get him into Canton without a ring of his own (XXXVI was Tommy's) when guys like P. Simms, Theismann and Testaverde aren't there? No.

PatsFanSince74 · Aug 8, 2010

Re: Who is the first Patriot with a Patriot SB ring to get inducted into the HOF

goheels22002 said:
Curtis Martin will get in. ...

No argument on Curtis, but he doesn't fit the criterion of the thread, i.e., he doesn't have "a Patriot SB ring."

fgssand · Aug 8, 2010

Re: Who is the first Patriot with a Patriot SB ring to get inducted into the HOF

PatsFanSince74 said:
Great analysis. I don't like it, but I have to agree with you on Washington, Willie, Ty and Centers. If I were forced to make a bet on which of the four makes it, it would be Law.

I think Dillon's case might just prove to be the luck of the draw, depending on who is up against him over a three or four year period. If I had to bet, I say he gets in as the memories of his bad teams fade.

I disagree on AV. He has more than "a shot." I think he goes in and fairly quickly. The Hall has only admitted one pure Placekicker (Stenerud) and none since 1991. The bar is high at that position and Adam's kicks in the Snow Bowl and SB XXXVI are iconic images not only for the Patriots but the NFL; the 45 yard line drive into the wind to tie the Snow Bowl is begrudgingly regarded by fans everywhere as the greatest kick under pressure in the history of the NFL. Number Four is a lock, IMO.

I agree on Rodney probably going in first. By working for ESPN he is coming in personal contact with a lot of the people who will either have a vote or who are close to those who do. I can't help but think his professionalism, smarts and presence in his new role will give enough doubters a chance to reevaluate their more "personal" assessments of him.

Good point - it really becomes a popularity contest and while many hated Rodney (they respected his play, but hated on him) and now he sure he is winning friends in the media that will put him in. By the same token - while he deserves it - nobody will be carrying Coreys water and recent events wont help him at all. As for Drew - no HOF in my opinion. Close, but no cigar. Those young Drew years were HOF worthy, he had it going and then he just got seemingly pig headed, throwing the ball into coverage and ignoring his reads. I think Tedy B, makes it in...............long career, multiple superbowls 5 in total, team leader, overcomes adversity, plays for same team for entire career, intense, quotable, notable, loyal to teamates, fans and fellow players.

Ring 6 · Aug 8, 2010

Re: Who is the first Patriot with a Patriot SB ring to get inducted into the HOF

PatsFanSince74 said:
Oh man, we've had threads on this that have gone on for hundreds of comments and I don't want to be part of hijacking this into another "Drew" thread. But, to answer your question, Awesome? Yes. Awesome enough to get him into Canton without a ring of his own (XXXVI was Tommy's) when guys like P. Simms, Theismann and Testaverde aren't there? No.

Testaverde in a discussion about the HOF

PatsFanSince74 · Aug 8, 2010

Re: Who is the first Patriot with a Patriot SB ring to get inducted into the HOF

AndyJohnson said:
Testaverde in a discussion about the HOF

The point was about stats. Vinny's no more get him in than do Drew's.

BradyFTW! · Aug 8, 2010

Re: Who is the first Patriot with a Patriot SB ring to get inducted into the HOF

signbabybrady said:
Ted W was my first guess but then I was suprised to find out CD (2007) actually retired before him. Any candidate retire before 2007?

Good call, I definitely didn't realize that. I still think it's a little up in the air, since I'd peg Washington as a first-or-second balloter, and Dillon might conceivably have to wait a little longer, but I still think Dillon is more likely.

And as much as I like him and as much as it sucks to say it, Bledsoe isn't a HOFer. It looked like he was on that path for the early years of his career, but he didn't maintain that level of play for long enough.

Of the Pats SB teams, I look at the HOF cases somewhat along the lines of:

Definites: Brady, Belichick
Probables: Washington, Law, Dillon, Harrison
Possibles: Vinatieri, Seymour
Unlikely, but they deserve to be in there d%#*!@t: McGinest, Bruschi

FCB02062 · Aug 8, 2010

Without a doubt, it's gotta be JR Redmond, Greg Robinson-Randall, or Freddy Boom Boom Coleman...

AQPE · Aug 9, 2010

Re: Who is the first Patriot with a Patriot SB ring to get inducted into the HOF

PatsFanSince74 said:
Great analysis. I don't like it, but I have to agree with you on Washington, Willie, Ty and Centers. If I were forced to make a bet on which of the four makes it, it would be Law.

I think Dillon's case might just prove to be the luck of the draw, depending on who is up against him over a three or four year period. If I had to bet, I say he gets in as the memories of his bad teams fade.

I disagree on AV. He has more than "a shot." I think he goes in and fairly quickly. The Hall has only admitted one pure Placekicker (Stenerud) and none since 1991. The bar is high at that position and Adam's kicks in the Snow Bowl and SB XXXVI are iconic images not only for the Patriots but the NFL; the 45 yard line drive into the wind to tie the Snow Bowl is begrudgingly regarded by fans everywhere as the greatest kick under pressure in the history of the NFL. Number Four is a lock, IMO.

I agree on Rodney probably going in first. By working for ESPN he is coming in personal contact with a lot of the people who will either have a vote or who are close to those who do. I can't help but think his professionalism, smarts and presence in his new role will give enough doubters a chance to reevaluate their more "personal" assessments of him.

Great post, I could hardly agree with you more (and PatsFanSince74, as well as MoLewisRocks previously), except I may think Ty Law has a better shot than others seem to think, and I'm not quite as convinced about Vinitieri.

I realize the premise of the original post was which of the Pat's Super Bowl championship team members gets into the HOF first, but since the thread has somewhat evolved into a discussion of who gets in at all, I'll throw another name that I haven't seen so far but which I think has a great chance at induction eventually: Bob Kraft. I think he has been at the heart of much of what has made the league thrive these past 15 or so years. I don't know what criteria the HOF voters consider regarding owners (I for one don't understand what put Ralph Wilson over the top, no disrespect to the man intended), but when you consider how much Kraft has accomplished for both his own franchise and for the league's bottom line, you'd have to think that he compares favorably to just about any other owner at this point.

fillylabinga · Aug 9, 2010

Re: Who is the first Patriot with a Patriot SB ring to get inducted into the HOF

PatsFanSince74 said:
No argument on Curtis, but he doesn't fit the criterion of the thread, i.e., he doesn't have "a Patriot SB ring."

I took another look at Curtis Martin's stats and it changed my mind--he'll get in. I knew he had great career numbers, but he never won a SB and never felt to me like he had a season where he was the best running back in the league. I felt the same way about Jerome Bettis. Both good, but not great runners.

Now I think both will get in. It turns out that both made All-Pro teams. I think for a player that doesn't have a ring having at least 1 year where he was considered the best at his position is a key HOF metric. Moreover, the current 'running back by committee' NFL means that it will be hard for a single back to reach the kind of career rushing totals (4th and 5th in total rushing yards) those guys have.

However, after looking at these numbers I feel even more strongly that Dillon won't make it. Besides Dillon and Martin you still have Marshall Faulk, Edge James, LDT who are locks and maybe Tiki Barber at that same level.

I put Dillon with guys like Eddie George, Priest Holmes, and Shaun Alexander. All great players just not HOF-worthy. Heck, there are guys like Portis, Jamal Lewis, and even Fred Taylor who have similar numbers and are still active...

He's right on the cusp though. If Dillon had stayed healthy and the Pats had one in 2005 or if he had come a year earlier and gotten another ring in 2003 I think he'd be in.

Patriot_in_NY · Aug 9, 2010

Re: Who is the first Patriot with a Patriot SB ring to get inducted into the HOF

fillylabinga said:
I took another look at Curtis Martin's stats and it changed my mind--he'll get in. I knew he had great career numbers, but he never won a SB and never felt to me like he had a season where he was the best running back in the league. I felt the same way about Jerome Bettis. Both good, but not great runners.

Now I think both will get in. It turns out that both made All-Pro teams. I think for a player that doesn't have a ring having at least 1 year where he was considered the best at his position is a key HOF metric. Moreover, the current 'running back by committee' NFL means that it will be hard for a single back to reach the kind of career rushing totals (4th and 5th in total rushing yards) those guys have.

However, after looking at these numbers I feel even more strongly that Dillon won't make it. Besides Dillon and Martin you still have Marshall Faulk, Edge James, LDT who are locks and maybe Tiki Barber at that same level.

I put Dillon with guys like Eddie George, Priest Holmes, and Shaun Alexander. All great players just not HOF-worthy. Heck, there are guys like Portis, Jamal Lewis, and even Fred Taylor who have similar numbers and are still active...

He's right on the cusp though. If Dillon had stayed healthy and the Pats had one in 2005 or if he had come a year earlier and gotten another ring in 2003 I think he'd be in.

I disagree.... Curtis Martin is not a lock by any stretch. He's up this year with Bettis and Faulk (a Media butt boy), both of who will go before him (IMO). Possibly he gets in on 2012 (a weaker year), but it depends who else is there. His numbers are okay, but he also had ALOT of carries (4.0 ypa career), but he suffers from a bottleneck of good players in the next year or two AND has no ring.

Dillon has WAY Better numbers then ANY of your comparisons (George, Holmes, Alexander). Of those three, only George even has 10,000 rushing yards (and George barely). Corey is at 11,250 (way above them). All played about the same amount of time but Dillon was by far more consistent then those other three with 7/10 1000 yd seasons, and 4/10 probowls. AND ONE RING. Thanks just my opinion though

They may be the same in your mind, but on paper, they aren't that close. Dillon's numbers are somewhat suppressed too in that he was only a 10 year guy and has significantly less carries then the top guys at 2618. If you look at it from a Statistical POV, he is more similar to THESE PLAYERS (quite a few of whom already are in the HoF).

zeke mowatt · Aug 9, 2010

I agree with those who think that Bledsoe will not get in. He'll get some consideration (rightly so), but in the end I just dont think his carreer measures up.

But, since I am a PATRIOTS FAN, I'll openly hope and root for him to get in. I can't understand how someone can claim to be a fan and then side against one one their best former players.................I hope he gets in. He's close and frankly there are worse QBs in the HOF right now.

TruthSeeker · Aug 9, 2010

zeke mowatt said:
I agree with those who think that Bledsoe will not get in. He'll get some consideration (rightly so), but in the end I just dont think his carreer measures up.

But, since I am a PATRIOTS FAN, I'll openly hope and root for him to get in. I can't understand how someone can claim to be a fan and then side against one one their best former players.................I hope he gets in. He's close and frankly there are worse QBs in the HOF right now.

I am a Patriots fan and I have no desire to see Drew Bledsoe in the HoF - because I'm a football fan as well and he just isn't HoF worthy. Let's not drag the Hall down by putting in people whose main claim to fame is accumulating statistics rather than being the best. Drew was very good at times, but was never (IMO) consistently in the top 3 QBs in the NFL. That's the type of dominance you should have in order to justify a space in the HoF.

jmt57 · Aug 9, 2010

Regarding Bledsoe I a gree, I think he does not get into the NFL Hall of Fame. His numbers look great right now but that's because of the way the game has changed. Look at most all-time passing and receiving stats, and those lists are dominated by not only guys who played in the 1990's and/or 2000's, but by currently active players. Five or ten years from now his ranking will be much lower.

I will say however that Bledsoe will, or should be, the first player with a Super Bowl ring as a Patriot (have to exclude guys who got rings elsewhere such as Buoniconti and Haynes) to go into the Patriots' team Hall of Fame.

MoLewisrocks · Aug 9, 2010

jmt57 said:
Regarding Bledsoe I a gree, I think he does not get into the NFL Hall of Fame. His numbers look great right now but that's because of the way the game has changed. Look at most all-time passing and receiving stats, and those lists are dominated by not only guys who played in the 1990's and/or 2000's, but by currently active players. Five or ten years from now his ranking will be much lower.

I will say however that Bledsoe will, or should be, the first player with a Super Bowl ring as a Patriot (have to exclude guys who got rings elsewhere such as Buoniconti and Haynes) to go into the Patriots' team Hall of Fame.

He could be but to not be will likely be his decision. I think he won't want to be too involved here until Bill is gone, and hopefully that isn't for another several seasons or more. In the interim guys like Troy and Rodney and Tedy and Willie who played significant roles in winning multiple rings here will all have been inducted into this teams HOF.

Who is the first Patriot with a Patriots SB ring to get inducted into the HOF

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