Do we need 6 wide receivers?

I_Bleed_Blue said:

I still do not believe that Edelman is a lock.

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If it came down to Edelman and, say, Holt, why would anyone take Holt instead? I just don't really get it, at this point in their careers. If Holt makes the roster it'll be because we carried 6 receivers and/or someone got hurt, not because Belichick decided to cut Edelman.

AndyJohnson said:

Yes, but the career was extremely productive. You can't not sign guys because they haven't played in your system, because that eliminates almost everyone (Holt too btw)
You have to take an educated guess whether they can pick it up.
I'd have to think BB was shocked that Galloway could have been that good for that long and not be capable of picking it up.
I would question whether it was work ethic (not being the glory WR who gets the deep ball could create that) but it just seemed obvious that he couldn't figure out how to read what he was seeing and adjust correctly.
Certainly a poor decision by BB, but not one that I find shocking that he didn't know better. I try to never criticize decisions that were the right one based on the available information but turn out to be wrong when unknown info comes out. Hell, 50/50 is probably a decent record on personell decisions in the NFL, so its hard for me to rail on the bad ones anyway.

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Hopefully Holt will be the answer where Galloway wasn't. I recall we were all pretty high on G last year at this time. The team is better stacked now so Holt failing would likely not have the same impact as last year.

Maybe they should just cut Moss. The guy was in danger of being cut back in 2007 before the season started.. How much better could he really be from that point, with 3 more years of wear and year on him? Mike Florio needs to investigate this possibility further

Frezo said:

Hopefully Holt will be the answer where Galloway wasn't. I recall we were all pretty high on G last year at this time. The team is better stacked now so Holt failing would likely not have the same impact as last year.

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Yeah, maybe I look at it differently because I didnt expect a whole lot from Galloway.
I also don't know how dramatic the impact of a 3rd WR is when Moss and Welker are catching 200 balls. Its not as if we need some one to take catches away from Moss and Welker. But we need that guy to be competant on the handful of plays he is the guy getting the look.
Thats why I like Holt. If all he does is run the right route and hold onto the ball, we are fine, because there arent that many plays where we have to check down further than Moss or Welker.

I don't expect Edelman to be cut. He is our backup slot receiver, a returner and has significant potential for the future.

That being said, I strongly disagree with most here about Holt. I expect Holt to start opposite Moss, with Welker in the slot. We may have the best set of three receivers int he league, certainly ine of the top 3.

Tate is doing well in camp, and will get lots and lots of reps in TC and in the preseason. This will make him a reasonable change of pace target during the season.

People talk as if Holt is all washed up. There is no evidence of that at all.

BradyFTW! said:

If it came down to Edelman and, say, Holt, why would anyone take Holt instead? I just don't really get it, at this point in their careers. If Holt makes the roster it'll be because we carried 6 receivers and/or someone got hurt, not because Belichick decided to cut Edelman.

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I_Bleed_Blue said:

Edelman did a fine job filling in last season. However with what the Pats have at WR thus far into training camp I believe that Edelman may just be one of those casualties that no one expects to happen. Stranger things have happened before.

I think everyone including me is impressed with him but I think that if Welker can really come back and play, with the additions of Tate and Price and Holt, along with solid tight end receivers for a change that Edelman may just be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I do not know what his eleigibility is for the practice squad. If they do let him go, Kansas City with Cassell would be the perfect fit.

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If we are overloaded at WR, why cut a guy who has proven he can play in our system yet keep the rookie?

I_Bleed_Blue said:

Edelman did a fine job filling in last season. However with what the Pats have at WR thus far into training camp I believe that Edelman may just be one of those casualties that no one expects to happen. Stranger things have happened before.

I think everyone including me is impressed with him but I think that if Welker can really come back and play, with the additions of Tate and Price and Holt, along with solid tight end receivers for a change that Edelman may just be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I do not know what his eleigibility is for the practice squad. If they do let him go, Kansas City with Cassell would be the perfect fit.

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Even if Welker came out of camp at 100% there's always the chance that he gets injured again, God forbid. For that reason alone Edelman won't get cut. The offense, at least the offense we've seen the last few years, needs someone filling that role. The other receivers just don't fill the bill. Barring a complete redesign on offense, Edelman makes it. No question. I feel like he could drop every pass for the next 3 weeks and he'd still make it. The kid is a gamer and we all saw it. If Slater can make it in NE for 2 years on versatility alone Edelman is a shoe in. Anyway, who would take his spot? Aiken? Edelman has ST value too. Holt? He's 34. Seriously? Edelman was the talk of TC all last season, then produced admirably when his number got called. No way he gets cut. No way.

I_Bleed_Blue said:

I completely agree with your opinion of Moss, Welker and Holt as the Pats Holy Trinity. And then, throw Tate in for good measure.

I really do not comprehend why there is so much negativity on Holt and comparing him with the Galloway disaster. The situations are totally different, talent wise, savvy wise and attitude.

With Holt and Moss on the outside, Welker in the slot, or even Holt in the slot with Moss and Tate wide... along with the Tight end threat that this team should have this season, they will be almost impossible to stop.

If the O line does their share, this can be a very scary offense. They might run up point as Arena football teams do.

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Might not go as far as that, but I will say that there is a hell of a lot of talent to sit down and scheme an offense with.
If someone puts together protection schemes and gives enough time for these receivers to do what they do, and Brady to get the ball to them, it could be scary.
Of course we also could waste the talent with bad schemes.

The thing that stands out to me if you look at the roster is in the passing game we truly have guys that can do anything you could ask to be done.
It could be the most diverse group with the widest array of talents I have ever seen, especially when you include the TEs, and RBs, especially Faulk.

If you think about it we have the skill players that we could be effective running anyones system.

By the way, if you dont think that 100s of hours have spent in the film room and in devising a scheme to take apart the defense that happens to be in our division, on our schedule twice, and ranked #1 last year, you havent spent much time getting to know who the guy in charge in Foxboro is.

I trust that Belichick isn't spending a lot of time on the offense. Obviously, he has folks working on offers to Brady and perhaps Mankins, but the coaching of the offense needs to be left to others.
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I agree that a now healthy Brady has lots of new toys. The offense should indeed be scary.

OUT Watson, Baker IN Grankowski, Hernandez, Crumpler

OUT Galloway, Aiken, Stanback IN Holt, Tate, Price
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We have a very solid offense as the final decisions regarding the 4th RB, 8th OL and 9th OL are made.
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AndyJohnson said:

Might not go as far as that, but I will say that there is a hell of a lot of talent to sit down and scheme an offense with.
If someone puts together protection schemes and gives enough time for these receivers to do what they do, and Brady to get the ball to them, it could be scary.
Of course we also could waste the talent with bad schemes.

The thing that stands out to me if you look at the roster is in the passing game we truly have guys that can do anything you could ask to be done.
It could be the most diverse group with the widest array of talents I have ever seen, especially when you include the TEs, and RBs, especially Faulk.

If you think about it we have the skill players that we could be effective running anyones system.

By the way, if you dont think that 100s of hours have spent in the film room and in devising a scheme to take apart the defense that happens to be in our division, on our schedule twice, and ranked #1 last year, you havent spent much time getting to know who the guy in charge in Foxboro is.

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I_Bleed_Blue said:

Holt can be a slot receiver as well as a wideout and I recall in game after game him taking slants and crossing patterns from Warner and then galloping for yards after the catch. He is also a great route runner on the quick out from the slot. I dont think that he has lost much and receivers like him, as Randy Moss did, flourish with a Tom Brady throwing to them.

Yes, Edelman did a find job and if it werent for the other WR's that I see on the field now, he just may be in the wrong place at the wrong time this season.

If he is not retained I am sure it will be avery difficult decision for Belichick to make.

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Well, even if it's like you say, I feel like age will come into play. Why keep Holt who has nowhere to go but down when Edelman has nowhere to go but up? Makes no sense.

I_Bleed_Blue said:

Your comments are taken and I really cant disagree with them other than thefact that I feel that the current group of WR's on the field at TC is far different than in past seasons,even 2007, and Edelman as I said may be the odd man out.

Holt can be a slot receiver as well as a wideout and I recall in game after game him taking slants and crossing patterns from Warner and then galloping for yards after the catch. He is also a great route runner on the quick out from the slot. I dont think that he has lost much and receivers like him, as Randy Moss did, flourish with a Tom Brady throwing to them.

Yes, Edelman did a find job and if it werent for the other WR's that I see on the field now, he just may be in the wrong place at the wrong time this season.

If he is not retained I am sure it will be avery difficult decision for Belichick to make.

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While 31 teams in the NFL would love to see it, the Patriots are not going to cut Edelman just to keep Holt.

mgteich said:

I trust that Belichick isn't spending a lot of time on the offense. Obviously, he has folks working on offers to Brady and perhaps Mankins, but the coaching of the offense needs to be left to others.
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I agree that a now healthy Brady has lots of new toys. The offense should indeed be scary.

OUT Watson, Baker IN Grankowski, Hernandez, Crumpler

OUT Galloway, Aiken, Stanback IN Holt, Tate, Price
==========

We have a very solid offense as the final decisions regarding the 4th RB, 8th OL and 9th OL are made.
==========

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Well, BB coaches the coaches, so you can be sure the schematic decisions on our offense are his.
The 100s of huors devising game plans to attack what Ryan does in NY would have been completed during the off-season. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that BB has had every shred of Jet film pored over, and their is a Jet gameplan in place. Im sure there is a Dolphin and Bills too, but I have feeling the Jet plan got more attention, simply because they were successful on D and this is the first season to look at.

And the patriots are not cutting Holt to keep Edelman.

Deus Irae said:

While 31 teams in the NFL would love to see it, the Patriots are not going to cut Edelman just to keep Holt.

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Suggesting Edelman could get cut is the most ridiculous thing I've read on this board in a while.

I_Bleed_Blue said:

And what a waste that would be with the talent that this team now has at receiver, both WR and TE and of course the "Faulk Factor"

I would also like to see a lot more screens and flat passes to Maroney. If these receivers get hot and make an early season impression then covering them by defenses should leave many different options for draws, and other phases of the passing game to the running backs.

As I said, and as you said, this year's offense can be realy scary to opposing defenses. Hopefully they will live up to it.

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Depends how they defend it. If they play zone the passes to the RB wont be as effective as they would be if you screen against a blitz, or get the RB one on one in the flat.

I think what we lost last year on offense was the certainty of what we wanted to be.
If you complicate things too much and try ot be too smart and varied, you arent doing what you do best.

Marqui said:

Suggesting Edelman could get cut is the most ridiculous thing I've read on this board in a while.

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Even if Edlelman for some bizarre reason ended up 6th on the WR depth chart, he would make the team as a special teams player.
Not that he will have to but he is absolutely in the lock category.

cutting edelmen would be ludicrous.

Yes, they need 6 WRs, not including Aiken or slater.

And we stumble on an idea.
Why wouldn't Edelman take Aikens special teams role too?
He doesnt figure to play any more snaps on offense than Aiken did last year, so its not a workload issue. That gives you the 5th WR active because he is there for special teams anyway.
Granted they arent interchangable, but Edelman plays a lot of special teams and we have the McCourtys and Arringtons and Chungs to play a lot of those roles.

Why not play Edelman at OLB? It makes almost as much sense as taking Aiken's roles on the special teams. Why do you believe that special teams takes such little skill?

Let me be clear. Aiken is competing for his special teams position and could easily be one of the guys being cut. But he will beaten out by Arrington or Slater or Murrell or Lockett.

Let me also agree that Edelman is a lock to make the 53-man roster.

AndyJohnson said:

And we stumble on an idea.
Why wouldn't Edelman take Aikens special teams role too?
He doesnt figure to play any more snaps on offense than Aiken did last year, so its not a workload issue. That gives you the 5th WR active because he is there for special teams anyway.
Granted they arent interchangable, but Edelman plays a lot of special teams and we have the McCourtys and Arringtons and Chungs to play a lot of those roles.

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That's another point. I don't think the team needs 4 guys whose sole role is playing ST. ST important? Sure, but it's not that hard.