Radical Idea - Trade for Gholston

FredFromDartmouth said:

Trades for players rarely work (with notable exceptions such as a certain slot receiver we stole from Miami). Ryan would not trade him to the Patriots if he had an ounce of talent.

No way I would be in favor of this trade.

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Ive never really understood the dont trade in your division thought process
You only make a trade by getting more than you give up. So by definition if you think the trade is worthwhile it would be BETTER to trade within your division because you both strengthen your team and weaken your opponent.
See Bledsoe, Welker, etc.

AndyJohnson said:

Ive never really understood the dont trade in your division thought process
You only make a trade by getting more than you give up. So by definition if you think the trade is worthwhile it would be BETTER to trade within your division because you both strengthen your team and weaken your opponent.
See Bledsoe, Welker, etc.

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The red circle represents offers the JEST would accept. The blue circle represents offers the Patriots would be willing to make.

That works sometimes and sometimes not so much. Look at the Eagles and McNabb. Nobody would argue that the Redskins are weaker with McNabb running Shanahan's offense than they would have been with Campbell. And not all the time you're giving up a player you straight up think is bad. You might not have room on your roster for a WR that's only great at special teams (think Kelley Washington) but a team that's not as deep is just going to get stronger by having him.

Keep saying no to drugs, even if they don’t seem to listen.

I prefer signing Adalius back to team than Ghost.

Some how, I wish the bitternes between team & Adalius is gone and we this guy back to 2007 form.

ctpatsfan77 said:

The red circle represents offers the JEST would accept. The blue circle represents offers the Patriots would be willing to make.

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Oh I cmpeltely agree with that, I was talking about the concept in general.

NewEngFan said:

I prefer signing Adalius back to team than Ghost.

Some how, I wish the bitternes between team & Adalius is gone and we this guy back to 2007 form.

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Ghost = this guy:


Gholston = bust.

BB does not work miracles, contrary to some that think otherwise, otherwise our busts wouldn't have been busts.

Nathan said:

That works sometimes and sometimes not so much. Look at the Eagles and McNabb. Nobody would argue that the Redskins are weaker with McNabb running Shanahan's offense than they would have been with Campbell. And not all the time you're giving up a player you straight up think is bad. You might not have room on your roster for a WR that's only great at special teams (think Kelley Washington) but a team that's not as deep is just going to get stronger by having him.

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I dont know that.
Why couldnt it be that the Eagles think McNab is done? He is beaten, battered and oft-injured.
This is the point I am making.
If the Eagles looked at the situation and said that at this point in his career McNab is no longer worth the contract he will expect, that they havent won with him yet, so at this point in his career will they ever, and that they would be better with a draft pick than keeping thier franchise in his hands, breaking the bank, and not getting a pick for him.
Clearly they thought something like that.
If they figure they are better off without him then who ever they trade him to will therefore be worse off with him.
Sure, he may be better than the guy they are puttng in at QB, but the Eagles made the decision that he would be worse for their franchise than a 2nd rounder (or whatever they got) whether they are right or wroing, they are operating from that belief, so they just weakened an opponent.
If the trade lets the Redskins improve to 8-8 then watch McNabs skills deteriorate and his injuries mount and they never win a championship, much less a division, or a playoff berth, the trade did not help them even if with Campbell they would have been 5-11 this year.
In this case, its long term pain you are inflicting on the rival.

By the way, the thought process I attached to the Eagles is pretty much the way I see this one playing out, and in the long run, the Redskins would have been better using a 2nd on Jimmy Claussen. At least if he fails they wont have the next 3-5 years bound to him.

NewEngFan said:

I prefer signing Adalius back to team than Ghost.

Some how, I wish the bitternes between team & Adalius is gone and we this guy back to 2007 form.

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Its got nothing to do with bitterness and everything to do with him not being a shadow of his 2007 form.
The strife started when BB had to deal with Thomas' diminished skills. The only reason there is bitterness between them is that Thomas is shooting the messenger, otherwise known as the employer who suffered from the fact that he isnt any good any more.

well, if we did sign Goatston, at least he'd be happy with all the lonely paths leading to the many ponds in the surrounding Foxboro area...

If the Eagles looked at the situation and said that at this point in his career McNab is no longer worth the contract he will expect, that they havent won with him yet, so at this point in his career will they ever, and that they would be better with a draft pick than keeping thier franchise in his hands, breaking the bank, and not getting a pick for him.

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Totally agree.

If they figure they are better off without him then who ever they trade him to will therefore be worse off with him.

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Do not agree.

Sure, he may be better than the guy they are puttng in at QB

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How can this and your previous statement co-exist?

I watch a ton of Eagles games and the Eagles and the Redskins are in two totally different places. The Eagles are built to contend NOW (they are a few pieces on defense away from a SB run and are ridiculously young on offense). They want these players to grow with Kolb, who has very different strengths than McNabb.

McNabb is inconsistant. He's great on the deep stuff but is hot and cold on everything intermediate (he's good on screens). He will go through spurts on offense where they'll stall out and get 4 3 and outs in a row because he's off and is throwing low and behind on crossing stuff. The other team gets up and enjoys great field position. That's why the Eagles have been so good against lousy teams. They can't capitalize, eventually McNabb gets hot and hits some deep stuff.

He used to be able to convert a few 3rd and longs a game by scrambling around and buying time or taking off and running but he can't do that as well anymore. The Eagles were always going to lose to good teams in the playoffs with McNabb with his current skillset, he's just too inconsistant. He can't beat elite defenses, and you usually have to beat one in the playoffs. Look at his completion percentage. For an QB that's considered right on the cusp of being elite he's always hovering around 60% which is not that great.

Kolb, from all accounts, is a very accurate, prototypical WCO QB. He's better for the Eagles because he'll be able to lead sustained drives. You won't see as many bomb TDs from the 40 to the 40, but he'll make up by putting it right on the numbers on slants and stuff that can lead to big plays.

The Redskins are just trying to compete and win a few games so Shanahan buys enough time to implement his system. They have to shift to a zone blocking scheme on Offense. Their QB was horribly suited for the WCO. McNabb will keep them in games against decent teams and beat enough bad teams so that their fanbase / Dan Snyder will keep Shanahan around long enough to turn the team around. He's the kind of QB that the Skins need. Yeah, he probably won't lead them to a SB title, but he definately makes the team better in the short term. He buys Shanahan enough time to find a QB that he likes in the draft.

Just cause a QB is a - for one team in it's run doesn't mean he can't be a + for another team in a vastly different place. Washington doesn't exactly have a future franchise QB that's sitting on the bench starving for playing time that McNabb will be taking snaps from. I have my doubts about Clausen in any system, and I definitely would have doubts about him in the WCO.

All that being said, I still say no effing way on Gholston. I mean... really?

why trade for a guy that will be cut by the jets at the end of camp anyway?

Nathan said:

Totally agree.



Do not agree.




How can this and your previous statement co-exist?

I watch a ton of Eagles games and the Eagles and the Redskins are in two totally different places. The Eagles are built to contend NOW (they are a few pieces on defense away from a SB run and are ridiculously young on offense). They want these players to grow with Kolb, who has very different strengths than McNabb.

McNabb is inconsistant. He's great on the deep stuff but is hot and cold on everything intermediate (he's good on screens). He will go through spurts on offense where they'll stall out and get 4 3 and outs in a row because he's off and is throwing low and behind on crossing stuff. The other team gets up and enjoys great field position. That's why the Eagles have been so good against lousy teams. They can't capitalize, eventually McNabb gets hot and hits some deep stuff.

He used to be able to convert a few 3rd and longs a game by scrambling around and buying time or taking off and running but he can't do that as well anymore. The Eagles were always going to lose to good teams in the playoffs with McNabb with his current skillset, he's just too inconsistant. He can't beat elite defenses, and you usually have to beat one in the playoffs. Look at his completion percentage. For an QB that's considered right on the cusp of being elite he's always hovering around 60% which is not that great.

Kolb, from all accounts, is a very accurate, prototypical WCO QB. He's better for the Eagles because he'll be able to lead sustained drives. You won't see as many bomb TDs from the 40 to the 40, but he'll make up by putting it right on the numbers on slants and stuff that can lead to big plays.

The Redskins are just trying to compete and win a few games so Shanahan buys enough time to implement his system. They have to shift to a zone blocking scheme on Offense. Their QB was horribly suited for the WCO. McNabb will keep them in games against decent teams and beat enough bad teams so that their fanbase / Dan Snyder will keep Shanahan around long enough to turn the team around. He's the kind of QB that the Skins need. Yeah, he probably won't lead them to a SB title, but he definately makes the team better in the short term. He buys Shanahan enough time to find a QB that he likes in the draft.

Just cause a QB is a - for one team in it's run doesn't mean he can't be a + for another team in a vastly different place. Washington doesn't exactly have a future franchise QB that's sitting on the bench starving for playing time that McNabb will be taking snaps from. I have my doubts about Clausen in any system, and I definitely would have doubts about him in the WCO.

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What I am saying is if the Skins improve to a 7-8 win team, in the big picture you hurt them as opposed to if they tried to build a winner wth the money, pick, and develop a QB.
Claussen was just an example becuase he was picked in the 2nd round.
The point was that IMO, the Skins will not be a threat with McNab, and they would have been more likely to be a threat if instead of making this trade they built the team the right way.
Better record in 2010 does not mean the team is better off having made the trade. If it sets them back 4 years from doing things the right way, you weaken franchise, regardless of whether they are poor or medicore in the short term.

Nathan said:

I watch a ton of Eagles games and the Eagles and the Redskins are in two totally different places. The Eagles are built to contend NOW (they are a few pieces on defense away from a SB run and are ridiculously young on offense). They want these players to grow with Kolb, who has very different strengths than McNabb.

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The Eagles are built to win now? Their offensive line is in shambles, they have no proven running backs, their QB is unproven, no one in their secondary can tackle, and the only legit player in that secondary is Samuel, and their kicking game has questions, Akers isn't who he once was.

That's a team a few pieces away from a SB run? They'll be lucky to come third in that division.

Dont you guys remember?

BB had Vrable workout with Gholston in the off season prior to that draft.They are both Buckeyes. The report from Vrable on Gholston must have been pretty sad.

Gholston looks completely out of his depth when on the field. Why would that magically change because he came to the Patriots?

The Eagles are built to win now? Their offensive line is in shambles, they have no proven running backs, their QB is unproven, no one in their secondary can tackle, and the only legit player in that secondary is Samuel, and their kicking game has questions, Akers isn't who he once was.

That's a team a few pieces away from a SB run? They'll be lucky to come third in that division.

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If not now than in the next few years. Samuel is a good corner, they just need another good safety across from Quintin Mikell (who is quite good) to help clean up the messes Samuel makes when he jumps routes. Letting Sheldon Brown go was a mistake IMO but Hobbs is a good nickleback. Obviously he's not up to playing CB2. They're getting Stewart Bradley back at MLB this year, which should shore up their run D significantly. They drafted some pass rushers to generate pressure aside from Trent Cole, we'll see if they pan out.

Their Offensive line needs cohesion but it just has to hold up better in pass protection, especially with Kolb at QB working off 3 step drops instead of McNabb.

Their running game is a question mark but I believe at this point in time all you have to be is average. Look at the Saints' backs. They put up very good numbers, but I think it was pretty clear it was due to scheme rather than players. And the Eagles went and pilfered Mike Bell to help in short yardage situations behind Weaver.

So that's the negative.

On the positive side they have a 25 year old QB that by all accounts the team believes in. DeSean Jackson is 23 and ridiculously explosive. Maclin was very good last year and is just going to get better. He's 22. Avant is a great possession receiver and is pretty young at 27. They have a breakout tight end in Celek who's 25 and has been on my radar for a couple years already. In the trenches they have Jason Peters I'm not totally sold on but is only 28. He could still live up to his enormous potential. On the other side Justice is a mere 25 at RT and seems to have put the terrible game vs the Giants a few years ago behind him.

None of those guys are over 30. If Kolb is 3/4 of the QB the Eagles think he is and they can get their D squared away they will be contending for SBs for the next 5-10 years.

And they won't be lucky to finish 3rd in their division, that should be expected. The NFC East is tough. Dallas is stacked and the Giants had an off year.