Mason re-signs with the Ravens

BradyFTW! said:

The past is plenty relevant. That's how we know what works and what doesn't. That said, in 2006 we had Asante, Seymour, Colvin, Bruschi and Vrabel, all of whom are better than the guys currently playing their positions (Bodden, Wright, TBC, Guyton, and whoever else we line up at OLB).

I'm not about to panic or anything, since we still have plenty of FA, the draft, and june cuts in front of us. Trying to evaluate the 2010 team right now is just pointless. But that 2006 defense definitely had strong points that the 2009 one, at least, didn't.

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Drumming up the receiving corps of 2006 as evidence that this team can win with a bunch of scrubs catching the ball is why 2006 is irrelevant.

1.) The wide receiver corps wasn't good enough last year, even when Welker was healthy.

2.) The rest of the team is far different than it was in 2006, as you note in your post.


I agree that panicking at this point is silly. I fully expect BB to address most of the concerns I have for the team, because I assume he's able to see them just as we are. Nonetheless, the team needs a lot of players to be replaced and upgraded, in a bizarre NFL offseason without a cap and with different free agency rules, and Homers blowing smoke up everyone's legs is just as silly as the Chicken Littles scanning the skies.

Rob0729 said:

I just used #1 and #2 to signify best and second best. We don't know how much Butler will progress in year 2 nor how Bodden will progress in year 2 of the system. No one expected Samuel to have 10 INTs in 2006. The Pats have several defensive players who have the potential to step up to elite levels this year. None may. Two or three might. It is just too early to know for sure. Maybe with Pees gone, it allows several younger players to take off the training wheels and be more agressive. Who knows.

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Definitely could happen, but Butler going from where he was last year to being better than Bodden was last year would be totally unprecedented in the Pats system. Sure, he might pull an Antonio Cromartie, but based on the likelihood of that, we can pretty reasonably assume that it won't happen. Projecting him as a capable starter is already pretty optimistic.

As far as Bodden, he is what he is. He's 28, and he played in a very similar system in Cleveland. If you're expecting a leap from him, then you're going to be disappointed. Which is a shame, because he's just fine as he is; he's a very good CB.

Deus Irae said:

Drumming up the receiving corps of 2006 as evidence that this team can win with a bunch of scrubs catching the ball is why 2006 is irrelevant.

1.) The wide receiver corps wasn't good enough last year, even when Welker was healthy.

2.) The rest of the team is far different than it was in 2006, as you note in your post.


I agree that panicking at this point is silly. I fully expect BB to address most of the concerns I have for the team, because I assume he's able to see them just as we are. Nonetheless, the team needs a lot of players to be replaced and upgraded, in a bizarre NFL offseason without a cap and with different free agency rules, and Homers blowing smoke up everyone's legs is just as silly as the Chicken Littles scanning the skies.

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FWIW, I think people are looking at this bizarre/unique offseason all wrong. Teams spending through the roof hasn't happened, which means that it's probably not going to. It was never realistic to expect that that would happen. The one really strange part has been the lack of UFAs, but that's exactly why I don't hold it against the Pats that they haven't aggressively sought the few UFAs that are on the market yet. Less player movement now means more player movement later, probably in june, and hopefully the Pats make their move then.

paradox said:

draft one early.

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(see Charlie Rodgers, Michael Westbrook, Rashaun Woods)

I still think it is premature to talk about the 2010 roster right now. The Pats will sign free agents. There is a very good chance there will be a wave of post-draft cuts this year with no cap. Look at the Pats, the Pats have Thomas, Springs, and others who still have some value who might be cut at some point in this offseason. The Pats are likely to make a trade since they do it almost every year. The Pats still have a lot of high draft picks.

This team could be considerably different in September than it is now. Obviously the Pats aren't going to add Bryant or Mason, but there are still a lot of free agents out there that could fill holes and I am sure there are many players on team's current rosters that could be traded for as the offseason goes along. I think it is a little premature to be complaining about the 2010 roster at least until camp. Or at least after the draft.

BradyFTW! said:

FWIW, I think people are looking at this bizarre/unique offseason all wrong. Teams spending through the roof hasn't happened, which means that it's probably not going to. It was never realistic to expect that that would happen. The one really strange part has been the lack of UFAs, but that's exactly why I don't hold it against the Pats that they haven't aggressively sought the few UFAs that are on the market yet. Less player movement now means more player movement later, probably in june, and hopefully the Pats make their move then.

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Taking a look at the contracts of Peppers, Bodden, Boldin, Green, Wilfork, Dansby, Rolle, etc... I see that the teams that are spending are spending a lot on a per player basis. However, because there have been so few signings, it's been mostly meaningless.

I agree with the general thrust of your post, though, in that I expect that more cuts will occur post draft than usual, and that fewer will occur before the draft then usual. Heck, given the uncapped year, we could see players that would normally get cut before the draft ending up staying with their teams into training camp. With no cap number to be under, teams don't have to worry about the timing of the cuts, so keeping an older veteran for camp fodder instead of bringing in some kid off the streets will probably be more appealing than usual.

I don't expect this dynamic to assuage the Chicken Littles very much, though.

Rob0729 said:

I still think it is premature to talk about the 2010 roster right now. The Pats will sign free agents. There is a very good chance there will be a wave of post-draft cuts this year with no cap. Look at the Pats, the Pats have Thomas, Springs, and others who still have some value who might be cut at some point in this offseason. The Pats are likely to make a trade since they do it almost every year. The Pats still have a lot of high draft picks.

This team could be considerably different in September than it is now. Obviously the Pats aren't going to add Bryant or Mason, but there are still a lot of free agents out there that could fill holes and I am sure there are many players on team's current rosters that could be traded for as the offseason goes along. I think it is a little premature to be complaining about the 2010 roster at least until camp. Or at least after the draft.

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It's really funny that some people are panicking because now Bryant and Mason are gone. Like you said, it is a long ass time til TC starts and there will be more roster cuts and more than adequate receivers becoming available. We don't need guys like Marshall or Boldin as our #2, we need a solid route runner with decent speed who can get separation when he needs to. A Branch type who's not named Branch--that's all. Josh Reed is still out there and could be the ticket. There will be more.

We do not need a "name" or superstar on the other side of Moss. We were totally formidable with Gaffney and/or Stallworth. We don't need try to be greedy--see Galloway, Joey. Former superstar who still had blazing speed and supposedly would have defenses shaking in there shoes having to defend he and Moss at the same time as downfield threats. We know how it turned out.

To those out there appartently suffering from delusions or playing too much Madden, Terrell Owens will never be a Patriot. Never.in.a.million.years. Ain't happenin--let it go.

JMarr said:

It's really funny that some people are panicking because now Bryant and Mason are gone. Like you said, it is a long ass time til TC starts and there will be more roster cuts and more than adequate receivers becoming available. We don't need guys like Marshall or Boldin as our #2, we need a solid route runner with decent speed who can get separation when he needs to. A Branch type who's not named Branch--that's all. Josh Reed is still out there and could be the ticket. There will be more.

We do not need a "name" or superstar on the other side of Moss. We were totally formidable with Gaffney and/or Stallworth. We don't need try to be greedy--see Galloway, Joey. Former superstar who still had blazing speed and supposedly would have defenses shaking in there shoes having to defend he and Moss at the same time as downfield threats. We know how it turned out.

To those out there appartently suffering from delusions or playing too much Madden, Terrell Owens will never be a Patriot. Never.in.a.million.years. Ain't happenin--let it go.

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This all depends on the health of Welker but if they are rolling out Moss/Reed/Edelman next season my expectations end with 10 wins maximum.

JMarr said:

We do not need a "name" or superstar on the other side of Moss. We were totally formidable with Gaffney and/or Stallworth. We don't need try to be greedy--see Galloway, Joey. Former superstar who still had blazing speed and supposedly would have defenses shaking in there shoes having to defend he and Moss at the same time as downfield threats. We know how it turned out.

To those out there appartently suffering from delusions or playing too much Madden, Terrell Owens will never be a Patriot. Never.in.a.million.years. Ain't happenin--let it go.

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Good point with the Gaffney/Stallworth point. Although given that Moss is two years older and Welker's status is unknown, it would be nice to have a 3rd WR that is better than either of those two, to "pick up the slack".

I'm not counting out TO showing up here though. A lot of people were upset with the Moss trade and that turned out alright. Arguably the Pats could sign TO to a one year deal and cut him even he ever proves a problem. Being an uncapped year, there would be no financial issues with such a cut.

Holt, Branch

Still out there.

paradox said:

draft one early.

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Way too risky. BB's weak spot in the draft is picking WRs. PK Sam, Bethel Johnson, Chad Jackson. I'm probably missing one or two. Branch and Givens are the last 2 quality WRs the team has developed from draft pick to starter and that's been nearly 10 years ago.

The book is out on Tate. Way out. Edelman shows more promise but a year does not a career make.

No, FA was the best option to upgrade. Now we're down to.....Josh Reed. Not that anyone should have been too excited about Antonio Bryant or Derek Mason.

On the flip side, BB may be signaling a desire to emphasize the run more next year. The draft provides a chance to find an immediate different maker at RB. Receivers...not so much. Unless you're talking someone like Percy Harvin and even he had issues with migraines.

AndyJohnson said:

Shhhhh. We are trying to prove that the Patriots have no one to play WR and Bill Belichick doesnt even know it.
Welker is coming back from an injury so he doesnt count.
Edelman looked good as a rookie so there has to be a reason to eliminate him. Bam, he will get injured because one team will be out to injure him more than any team will be out to injure any player. Makes sense.
Tate. Well he got hurt so there is a 100% chance he will contribute nothing next year.....
Catching on?

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There's a chance Welker might not be back until week 9. That matters.

Unless there is a trade in the works, Get used to 06 again... Baltimore has the stacked recievers now... Very Disapointing, they did not step up for 2 of these guys... The list is not great out there, I dont have faith in draft picks... The track record is not good.. Who knows, but I hope Josh Reed signs, for a name that we know ..

Bummer! Mason was my ace in the hole..... He would have been great here.... Oh well, Ravens have a nice pair of recievers. They just got better. Gotta draft one reletively high now. Olsen would really help now, if they would take a 2nd I'd be all over it.

BelichickFan said:

If Tate can be a decent (relative to his inexperience, of course), player then I have little concern. If we go back to Aiken and Stanback - concern.

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I think you just need to look at the first word in your sentence here that explains the worry at the WR position on this team.......IF....... other than moss...we have no concrete big time vet WR.....patten is old and will be good role player....well out for alot of next year...rest are question marks....would have been good to bring in one more good vet...maybe this sets the stage for Marshall?

Free_Pacman said:

I still don't see the downside of signing TO.


-Cheap
-Most likely a one year deal and there's no cap this year
-one of the greatest wr's of all-time

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And he's been such a positive influence in every clubhouse he's been in. He's just what the Pats need, a talented clubhouse leader who won't sulk or pout or act up like a five-year-old. Sign the beast. Right.

BTW,my #1 free agent receiver target has become Laveranues Coles (who had a bad year in part because Palmer sucked so bad) now. Coles is a type of WR who would fit in perfect with the Pats (quick, great route running, able to shed blocks off the line of scrimmage). I think in the Pats' system, he can be an 800-1000 yard receiver.

Sleeping King said:

This all depends on the health of Welker but if they are rolling out Moss/Reed/Edelman next season my expectations end with 10 wins maximum.

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Why? You don't think Reed or another vet would be a huge upgrade from Aiken?

It wouldn't be such a bad thing if the Pats are forced to develop other means of moving the chains than relying on WW to be so clutch--See: better running game, more use of the TE, RBs and other WRs in the passing game, more creative play calling, and.....Edelman in the slot. Nobody is WW, but it looks like Brady and Edelman already have something similar going that will only be better by the time the season starts.

I'm seriously bummed about Welker, but with us drafting Vollmer and Edelman last year and then seeing Light and Welker go down, I'm starting to think that some things happen for a reason, :halo:

The Baltimore offense is looking alot better now, they have a good offensive line, a good young running back, a nice young quarterback and now recievers that can do a job.

SladeRider said:

The Baltimore offense is looking alot better now, they have a good offensive line, a good young running back, a nice young quarterback and now recievers that can do a job.

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Agreed. They should definitely threaten for the AFC next year, barring injuries.