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Bills will let T.O. walk


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Hogwash. He is a fool - which is why he landed in Buffalo last season - and he's never been second or third fiddle anywhere and accepted it. He and Randy aren't "friends", they are thin-skinned peers and in fact they are direct competitors for a lot of post career laurels... Whichever one found himself on the short end of the receptions or TD's or $$ stick here would be liable to develop malcontentment disorder. And while Randy isn't terribly media savvy, at least he tends to avoid them in season. TO can't not comment because public venting and hogging the spotlight is in his DNA. TO has never been asked to perform in a sight adjusted offense like this one. He struggles whenever he isn't targeted. I don't want Brady wasting another entire off season trying to motivate or placate a fading star. I want him building towards continuity that has an opportunity to pay dividends over the next 4-5 seasons...

Isn't this your boy Bill's speciality? Or are you saying that not even he would be able to control T.O.? Personally, I have more faith in BB and the Pats front office than you do on this one, should they persue T.O.
 
With the exception of Buffalo, everywhere TO has gone, the residual effect of his presence has been a fractured locker room.

No question he plays hard but the baggage just isn't worth it IMO.

This is the essential part of my argument. For a one year deal on a team with a quarterback like Tom Brady, a head coach like Belichick, and the pieces that we already have in place, I don't think there is going to be a lot of baggage. T.O. has a history of playing hard in his first season and, with the litany of options we have available, will play hard here as well. If those old emotions start to fire up, we can deactivate him just as easily as we signed him.
 
The team is already a lightning rod for criticism from the media...the last thing they need is a confirmed locker room prima donna.

No thank you, there are more veterans out there for them to try.

The last thing we need to do is make moves or not make moves based on what the media thinks of us. The day we start catering to the media is the day we finish in last place in the AFCE.
 
Kontra, I understand some of your points, but I think TO can have the effect that you think he can. I exaggerated a little by calling him another Joey Galloway b/c he's obviously more refined as a WR than Galloway. Yes Romo was hurt, but even when Romo returned, TO was still having issues separating and complaining about not getting the ball (like the explosion on the sideline during the Steelers loss). Romo only missed 3 or 4 games too, so it's not like he was out for like 8 weeks.

What VJC said is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Doesn't that sound very similar to what happened with Galloway? That's more of where I was bringing in the Galloway comparison. Galloway dropped some catchable balls, couldn't get on the same page as Brady, and Brady got pretty pissed at him, which all resulted in him being de-activated and released during the season. This one-year fill the gap deal left us with a noose around our neck in terms of WR depth. Sam Aiken? Isiah Stanback? Rookie off knee surgery Brandon Tate? QB-conversion project Edelman? We were extremely lucky to have Edelman contribute the way he did. We thought Galloway could be a one year stop gap, and once he busted, we were in some trouble. When Welker went down, we were basically doomed.

That's why I'm opposed to a TO who is not only pretty damn old at 36, but has had a litany of problems in the locker room everywhere he's gone, and is a one year stop gap option at best. David Patten is obviously not the answer. I'm more interested in a longer-term investment. A guy in the 2nd round of the draft, an UFA/RFA who is still pretty young. I'd even rather have Deion Branch who has experience in our system and is still a good amount younger than TO. If you sign TO as that stop gap and address the other needs you are talking about in the draft, you're just putting a band-aid on the problem instead of trying to fix it. What happens if TO's attitude or inability to separate or inability to get the Pats offense down results in him being shown the door? Now you have Moss who is a year older, no Welker for the first half of the season with no guarantees he will ever be the same player, Edelman a very solid slot guy, and Tate who has had two knee injuries in consecutive years and hasn't proven much. It's too much of a risk that I'm not willing to take.

We'll have to agree to disagree on T.O.'s ability to get separation. I saw plenty of it last year, while he was playing with a crappy QB. As for receiver depth, there is nothing wrong with signing Owens and STILL drafting a receiver in the later rounds. This is also a very deep draft for that position as well.

The bottom line is to improve, right? Well, WR is one of the biggest positions in need for improvement. And, if you're going to improve, you're going to do so with the best available. Well, T.O. is the best available as of right now (unless you want to try to make an argument about why Bryant or Branch are better than T.O. right now).
 
Isn't this your boy Bill's speciality? Or are you saying that not even he would be able to control T.O.? Personally, I have more faith in BB and the Pats front office than you do on this one, should they persue T.O.

No, it's not and it's never been. You must be confusing him with the other Bill...the one who liked to play sideline psycho-analyst...and even he didn't want this guy and couldn't find a way to win with him. Belichick has taken a chance on guys who were football matters guys frustrated by circumstances beyond their control (Dillon stuck in Cincy) or (Moss traded to a team hurtling towards mediocrity). And he did it only because he had a core leadership group in place at the time who signed off to self police those players. That leadership group is essentially history now beyond Brady who has his hands full already and doesn't need another responsibility added to his plate unless it's going to ultimately pay him long term dividends...
 
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No, it's not and it's never been. You must be confusing him with the other Bill...the one who liked to play sideline psycho-analyst...and even he didn't want this guy and couldn't find a way to win with him. Belichick has taken a chance on guys who were football matters guys frustrated by circumstances beyond their control (Dillon stuck in Cincy) or (Moss traded to a team hurtling towards mediocrity). And he did it only because he had a core leadership group in place at the time who signed off to self police those players. That leadership group is essentially history now beyond Brady who has his hands full already and doesn't need another responsibility added to his plate unless it's going to ultimately pay him long term dividends...

And what would you say if Brady wanted the team to make a play for T.O.?
 
We'll have to agree to disagree on T.O.'s ability to get separation. I saw plenty of it last year, while he was playing with a crappy QB. As for receiver depth, there is nothing wrong with signing Owens and STILL drafting a receiver in the later rounds. This is also a very deep draft for that position as well.

The bottom line is to improve, right? Well, WR is one of the biggest positions in need for improvement. And, if you're going to improve, you're going to do so with the best available. Well, T.O. is the best available as of right now (unless you want to try to make an argument about why Bryant or Branch are better than T.O. right now).

Branch would arguably be far better now because he's younger and he's thoroughly familiar with the QB and the scheme and the system, and Brady could focus a lot more attention on building rapore with guys like Edleman and Tate and getting any draftees up to speed as opposed to focusing on re-training another aged veteran who has never played in a system remotely like this.

PS There is a world of difference between being the best available and the most gifted or talented. I'll take the player with a little less talent and a lot more drive anyday.
 
I know this will never happen, but T.O. LOOKS these days like a tight end considering his physical size and diminished speed. Problem is you'd never get the guy to block like one. :bricks:
 
And what would you say if Brady wanted the team to make a play for T.O.?

I'd remind him about the time he wanted them to sign his misunderstood college WR... I can't imagine Tommy would be so foolish as to want this guy based on what he ended up preaching all season, committment to each other and the team, pushing through adversity, stepping up and being accountable, no excuses... Randy struggles with criticism, TO can't tolerate it.
 
Branch would arguably be far better now because he's younger and he's thoroughly familiar with the QB and the scheme and the system

Branch has also been playing on one leg for the better part of the last four years now. He's also completed a 16 game season once since 2005. Owens has not had the sort of injury issues that Branch has had. Not even close. Also, Branch is six years younger than T.O., putting him at 30. According to your stance on Seymour (not trying to throw a red herring in here, but I think it should be pointed out), that would also put Branch past his "prime".

and Brady could focus a lot more attention on building rapore with guys like Edleman and Tate and getting any draftees up to speed as opposed to focusing on re-training another aged veteran who has never played in a system remotely like this.

Brady is a GOAT and, as such, he should be able to focus on both throwing to Owens AND developing younger talent like Edelperson and Tate. See, the beauty about signing a guy like Owens is the fact that you already know what he can do. You would, essentially, be able to throw to him AND the draftees and Moss and Welker whenever they are open. Considering what this receiving corps would look like WITH Owens, people should be able to get open all the time.

PS There is a world of difference between being the best available and the most gifted or talented. I'll take the player with a little less talent and a lot more drive anyday.

Who is to say that after a year in Buffalo, Owens won't have drive? Especially if he is to come into the right locker room. Remember, now, that you're comparing him with Branch, a guy that had so much drive that he left New England for a better pay day.

I'd remind him about the time he wanted them to sign his misunderstood college WR... I can't imagine Tommy would be so foolish as to want this guy based on what he ended up preaching all season, committment to each other and the team, pushing through adversity, stepping up and being accountable, no excuses... Randy struggles with criticism, TO can't tolerate it.

I'd say Owens is a little bit better than David Terrell.
 
Everyone thought Moss was an a-hole too.

I trust BB to determine if he is Patriots' material. If so, imagine Moss/TO on the same team, it would be amazing. Moss the finesse WR, TO someone who can actually get some yards after contact, a more physical style.

It would wreak havoc with secondaries.

I'm not saying it is a good idea, but if BB decides it is, boy that would be exciting!!! I think TO is still really good for at least one more season.

OTOH, I wouldn't want much money spent on him. Maybe BB could have Moss go talk to TO.
 
Everyone thought Moss was an a-hole too.

I trust BB to determine if he is Patriots' material. If so, imagine Moss/TO on the same team, it would be amazing. Moss the finesse WR, TO someone who can actually get some yards after contact, a more physical style.

It would wreak havoc with secondaries.

I'm not saying it is a good idea, but if BB decides it is, boy that would be exciting!!! I think TO is still really good for at least one more season.

OTOH, I wouldn't want much money spent on him. Maybe BB could have Moss go talk to TO.

With the lack of interest in him, I doubt we'd need Moss to talk to him. All we would need to do is extend an offer.
 
"PS There is a world of difference between being the best available and the most gifted or talented. I'll take the player with a little less talent and a lot more drive anyday".

No-one has ever questioned T.O's drive, he works as hard as any player in the league. People have questioned Randy Moss's drive. Randy gave up. Randy didn't try. T.O has never given up.

T.O's problems are maturity, being selfish and generally being a bad team mate, but not being a driven player.
 
T.O. has a history of playing hard in his first season and, with the litany of options we have available, will play hard here as well. If those old emotions start to fire up, we can deactivate him just as easily as we signed him.

Not only deactivate, but jettisoned entirely (see Sherry Glenn 2001) w/ zero financial penalty on the Pats.
 
The character knocks on TO are less about his drive... in fact he may have too much drive, to the point where he's a bad teammate and comes off as selfish. He's an individualist and strives for individual glory, not necessarily team glory. Then again, he was more or less a good soldier in Buffalo this year.

I wouldn't be unhappy with the Patriots giving him a shot.
 
Release him? He's going to be a free agent anyway. They're just not offering him a new contract before free agency starts. Read the story.
Excuse me Pats1. Sorry we're not all perfect like you. That must be difficult for you.
 
Look at 1:33 in the video.

He catches a 17 yard strike right up the gut.

Moss does not do that consistently (not built for it).

Welker does not do that (not built for it).

Owens makes his living there.

He would threaten the middle of the field in such a way that there is NO way defenses could cover Moss deep and a returning Welker/Edelman underneath.

Owens is what this team was missing in even 2007, a true wide reciever that can stick the dagger right into the center of the defense.
 
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