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Realistic UFAs that Pats should consider


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Re: Realistic UFA PATS should consider

Does anyone here have a detailed understanding of the Pats' debt structure? Comments like the one above always fail to take this into account, and I don't know enough about it to speak to it with authority. What I do know is that Gillette cost north of $300M to build, was privately funded, and that the Pats have hundreds of millions in debt (I think I remember seeing $280 million as the number). Teams like the Colts, OTOH, had the bill footed by the Indiana taxpayers, so they don't have to account for this kind of debt service. It's pretty stupid to disparage the Pats' willingness to spend without taking any of this into account.

I read somewhere last year that the Kraft's had essentially paid off their debt from Gillette prior to the construction of Patriots Place.

Let's stop acting as if the billionaire who owns several large multi national companies and one of the most valuable franchises in sports history is penniless and destitute.

They can compete if they want to. They may not want to. I personally don't care one way or another, but the whole "but they have debt and blah blah blah" rap is as absurd as it is annoying and stupid. You make it sound like they're barely hanging on financially.

They're loaded. Period.
 
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Re: Realistic UFA PATS should consider

How dare you post facts!

Of that list, I'd like to see Josh Reed and Willie Parker brought in. Parker still has a lot left in the tank and is a home run threat. I guess it just depends on how much he wants.

Parker will be 30 in Nov. He also has been banged up these past two years. I don't think he can carry the mail anymore but maybe he'd be a good 10 carrya game guy...

Reed wasn't very good last year, but I think he could help this offense.
 
I thought Aaron Kampman, assuming the Pats do their due diligence on his health, would be the most logical unrestricted free agent. Someone who has great pass rushing skills and just made the switch to outside linebacker with old friend Dom Capers. He's a veteran who may want to come in on a shorter deal to become top free agent the next year (ala Leigh Bodden). Short of going after Peppers I think Kampman may be the best pass rushing option.
 
I thought Aaron Kampman, assuming the Pats do their due diligence on his health, would be the most logical unrestricted free agent. Someone who has great pass rushing skills and just made the switch to outside linebacker with old friend Dom Capers. He's a veteran who may want to come in on a shorter deal to become top free agent the next year (ala Leigh Bodden). Short of going after Peppers I think Kampman may be the best pass rushing option.

I think I remember reading somewhere that he didn't like playing in the 3-4 last year, and if that's the case I doubt he'd want to come here. I definitely might be misremembering that though, and if I am then I'd totally be on board with that.
 
I think I remember reading somewhere that he didn't like playing in the 3-4 last year, and if that's the case I doubt he'd want to come here. I definitely might be misremembering that though, and if I am then I'd totally be on board with that.

He said it was a really tough conversion, but I'm not sure if he hated it or not. I just hope the Patriots realize he may be the best option for a veteran OLB that is an established pass rusher. I can't come up with a better option that is unrestricted.
 
Re: Realistic UFA PATS should consider

I read somewhere last year that the Kraft's had essentially paid off their debt from Gillette prior to the construction of Patriots Place.

Let's stop acting as if the billionaire who owns several large multi national companies and one of the most valuable franchises in sports history is penniless and destitute.

They can compete if they want to. They may not want to. I personally don't care one way or another, but the whole "but they have debt and blah blah blah" rap is as absurd as it is annoying and stupid. You make it sound like they're barely hanging on financially.

They're loaded. Period.

So, by arguing that someone isn't cheap, I'm now calling him "penniless and destitute"? Nice straw man. If you think that he's going to take his $1.4 billion franchise and run it at a loss just for the thrill of it, then you need a reality check. He won't, for the same reason that he's a good owner: because he's a good businessman.

Not sure where you heard that Gillette is paid off, but you might want to check your sources, because you're wrong. According to Forbes, the Pats' debt/value, which is a measure of stadium debt against total franchise value, is 21%. The Krafts have a $20 million annual bill for debt servicing, I believe. If you think that that's chump change, then good for you- you must be pretty loaded yourself.

By the way, Patriots had an EBITDA of $71 million in 2008. That's earnings before interest, tax, depreciation, and amortization, so the net profit is much lower. Considering that that number is almost certain to drop significantly in this economic climate, 1-2 of the huge contracts that people on this board are clamoring for, above and beyond the traditional payroll, could very well turn the team into a break-even entity at best. In case you need clarification, that's not a good thing, and it's no way to run a business. Especially with the likelihood that they're going to lose a ton of money if there's a lockout in 2011. The fact that fans still manage to have a problem with the guy who put up hundreds of millions to singlehandedly keep the Pats in New England will never stop bugging me. Anyone who thinks that Kraft is cheap is ignorant, plain and simple. Money doesn't grow on trees, for Kraft anymore than for the rest of us.

He didn't become a billionaire by bloating his costs and running at a loss, and he's not going to start now. If you have a problem with that, then by all means go and make $1.5 billion of your own and buy the Patriots from him, then feel free to run the franchise into the ground at your leisure. If you want to simplify it to "he's loaded, period" because you can't understand anything more complicated than that, then that's your business, but don't pretend that you know what you're talking about.
 
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Re: Realistic UFA PATS should consider

By the way, Patriots had an EBITDA of $71 million in 2008. That's earnings before interest, tax, depreciation, and amortization, so the net profit is much lower. Considering that that number is almost certain to drop significantly in this economic climate, 1-2 of the huge contracts that people on this board are clamoring for, above and beyond the traditional payroll, could very well turn the team into a break-even entity at best. In case you need clarification, that's not a good thing, and it's no way to run a business. Especially with the likelihood that they're going to lose a ton of money if there's a lockout in 2011.

The fact that fans still manage to have a problem with the guy who put up hundreds of millions to singlehandedly keep the Pats in New England will never stop bugging me. Anyone who thinks that Kraft is cheap is ignorant (and probably an idiot), plain and simple. If you want to simplify it to "he's loaded, period" because you can't understand anything more complicated than that, then that's your business, but don't pretend that you know what you're talking about.

Sorry to interject in the convo, but the with an uncapped year the Pats should sign those 1-2 huge contracts because the Patriots franchise is making LOTS of money. I'll be interested to know if that 71 million is from current revenues that do not include revenue sharing. I'm wondering if revenue sharing is classified as non-operating revenue (I've never been able to find any financial information on any football franchise other than from Forbes, which was wrong). Either way the franchise is making huge sums of money.

Spare me that Kraft kept the franchise in Massachusetts for every Patriots fan, he kept here for himself. He grew up a fan himself and did what he wanted. He saw that fans would come if he could make the team good and he can basically charge whatever he wants.

On a side note, I'm not claiming he's cheap. I just believe if he was really hell bent on winning championships instead of making money then he would sign some of the best/high paid players available in an uncapped year.
 
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Why isn't TO being discussed. He can still play, would be a monster threat opposite Randy, and can handle the medium middle of the field routes.

He has experience playing AFC East opponents and I imagine would not be terribly expensive.

The dude was also quiet last year. Give him a two year deal and let Brady sling that **** like never before.
 
Re: Realistic UFA PATS should consider

Spare me that Kraft kept the franchise in Massachusetts for every Patriots fan, he kept here for himself. He grew up a fan himself and did what he wanted. He saw that fans would come if he could make the team good and he can basically charge whatever he wants.

I didn't give any reason for why he kept the Pats in New England, and frankly I don't care. He could have done it as part of a convoluted long-term plan to torment us, for all I care: the fact remains that the Patriots would be in St. Louis right now if not for Kraft.

Also, by your definition, Dan Snyder and Jerry Jones are hellbent on winning. Would you want either of them as the owner of the Patriots over Kraft?
 
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Why isn't TO being discussed. He can still play, would be a monster threat opposite Randy, and can handle the medium middle of the field routes.

He has experience playing AFC East opponents and I imagine would not be terribly expensive.

The dude was also quiet last year. Give him a two year deal and let Brady sling that **** like never before.

Can he really play anymore though? He has really been trending downwards and hasn't played great since 2007. So we would be getting a 36 year old headcase WR who hasn't been very effective in a few year and we want to lock him up til he's 38?
 
Re: Realistic UFA PATS should consider

I didn't give any reason for why he kept the Pats in New England, and frankly I don't care. He could have done it as part of a convoluted long-term plan to torment us, for all I care: the fact remains that the Patriots would be in St. Louis right now if not for Kraft.

Also, by your definition, Dan Snyder and Jerry Jones are hellbent on winning. Would you want either of them as the owner of the Patriots over Kraft?

I'd want anyone who would be willing to spend anything to win. Lucky for us Kraft is smart enough to realize he shouldn't be picking the players like Snyder and Jones.

It was a pretty clear insinuation that you thought Kraft kept the team here for the fans.
 
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Re: Realistic UFA PATS should consider

I'd want anyone who would be willing to spend anything to win. Lucky for us Kraft is smart enough to realize he shouldn't be picking the players like Snyder and Jones.

It was a pretty clear insinuation that you thought Kraft kept the team here for the fans.

Feel free to point out where I insinuated that. Or keep backtracking... either works.
 
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Re: Realistic UFA PATS should consider

Feel free to point out where I insinuated that. Or keep backtracking... either works.

It's really not the point. The point is the Patriots have the money to spend and there should never ever be a monetary reason the Pats don't sign a free agent that will help them win.
 
Season Team
G Rec Yds Avg Lng TD
2009 Buffalo Bills 16 55 829 15.1 98T 5
2008 Dallas Cowboys 16 69 1,052 15.2 75T 10
2007 Dallas Cowboys 15 81 1,355 16.7 52T 15

His 2009 campaign I think was more of a result of crap quarterback and crap offense.

I would bet he could easily grab 60-70 balls get a thousand yards and 8-11 tds with Brady.

The dude is a physical specimen and is in no way breaking down with his "advanced" age.
 
Re: Realistic UFA PATS should consider

It's really not the point. The point is the Patriots have the money to spend and there should never ever be a monetary reason the Pats don't sign a free agent that will help them win.

If it's not the point, then why did you bring it up and then reiterate it when I called you out on it in the first place? It's suddenly not the point once you realize that you can't back it up, since you were talking out of your ass all along?

And really? There should never be a reason? Like, not even in the event that profits are shrinking, with a looming work stoppage only one year on the horizon? Yeah, it's easy to shrug off the prospect of operating at a loss of millions of dollars when it's not your money, isn't it? Rational people, OTOH, with even a basic understanding of the principles involved, recognize that the organization does have a budget to work with. It's tied to its revenues and operating costs. This is a function of reality and basic business. If you think that it's Kraft's civic duty to subsidize the Patriots with his other business entities, then you're just being dumb. He won't do that, and he shouldn't.
 
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Re: Realistic UFA PATS should consider

He got that from the game ESPN Extreme Games for the original Playstation. Suzy Kolber taunts you by saying it if you come in last place.


Yeah that's right mcmurtry86. I'm calling you out for ripping off that 15 year old joke from Suzy. :biggrin2:

"I wanna kiss you. I couldn't care less about the team strugg-a-ling..."

What was great about that night was not only the Broadway Joe-Sweet Suzy scene, but also the ass-kicking we gave the jesters - again.
 
Re: Realistic UFA that Pats should consider

I'd pick up Reed if he's cheap. doesn't stop us from picking up a speed receiver too, or developing Tate.

People forget the problem was we were zeroing in on two receivers. Adding a smart guy that can move the chains would be a plus. We weren't missing a speed guy as much as a smart 3rd receiver last year IMO.

I agree.

Heck, I would've signed Matt Coke Zero Jones & Dante Stallworth, too; throw enough stuff at the wall, and some of it is bound to stick.
 
Re: Realistic UFA that Pats should consider

Vanden Bosch and Bullock would be interesting. Bring in Burleson and Cha,bers to push Tate/Draft pick in camp, ultimately keeping one of them? That may actually work out prettey well. Go D front 7/OL/WR with the first 4 picks, snag RB/TE in the 4th/5th, and the later rounds are gravy. That could work out pretty well. In theory it would leave $ to sign Wilfork/Bodden and should keep VW happy in the sense that we would not be bringing a Peppers type for huge money (which would probably result in us slapping the tag on him).
 
Re: Realistic UFA PATS should consider

Parker will be 30 in Nov. He also has been banged up these past two years. I don't think he can carry the mail anymore but maybe he'd be a good 10 carrya game guy...

Reed wasn't very good last year, but I think he could help this offense.

Well, considering that we operate in a system that is purely RBBC, Parker would just be another part of that attack. Personally, I would sign him, cut Taylor, re-sign Faulk, and (of course) keep Maroney and Morris. That would be a pretty good rotation at RB.

As for T.O., no thanks. I would have thought that Pats fans have seen enough locker room dissention in 2009. I guess not. His talent isn't worth it.
 
Re: Realistic UFA that Pats should consider

I agree.

Heck, I would've signed Matt Coke Zero Jones & Dante Stallworth, too; throw enough stuff at the wall, and some of it is bound to stick.

Don't really have an opinion on Jones, but Stallworth showed the ability to get some YAC and he has speed,.

Our disciplined passing offense has been shot since we lost Gaffney anyway, probably since we decided to pass to a triple covered Moss constantly in 2007. Break some guys in for 2011, right now we need guys that can make plays.

Whatever the plan was in 2009, it didn't work. Aiken should be no more than an afterthought on a professional football WR corps.
 
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