So what do you think of Hoyer?

PatsWickedPissah said:

Hoyer.
Did not make obviously bad decisions.
Good athleticism.
Strong enough arm.
Ran the standard Pats offense. A big deal. Not having to drasticly change the O for the backup is key.
I think he needs work experience recognizing blitz and other schemes, but that's only to be expected.

Personally I'm somewhat astounded that a rook could look this poised. Obviously BB did something right this season. (Although as BB would say, if we knew he'd be that good we woulda drafted him)

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Agree Pissah. It's easy to nitpick some faulty plays with any QB. But for a rook coming in cold against a fired-up defense, I thought he was outstanding. I wondered why BB didn't find a veteran backup, but the kid justified the team's confidence in him. And as has been said here, he's a terrific bargain. Its too early to compare him with Cassel, but I like what I've seen so far.

Hoyer looked almost identical to Brady to me. The way he moves, steps back, delivers. His throw is a little different, but he has the poise of Brady.

Looks like he has learned a lot from #12.

We don't need to hear again about the wasted 3rd rounder on O'Connell, not when Hoyer is playing well.

My totally subjective fan opinion is that he looked like a starting QB, reminiscent of #12, but with wheels, with very few if any significant issues. Is it heresy to want to see Hoyer in more regular season games?

Well, it's encouraging to read the positive reports about Hoyer's performance. The combination of Wes Stress followed by perhaps a tish too much alkyhol induced a bit of a fugue state, leaving me unable to clearly recall the particulars. Had it been on local TV, this probably would have been the one game they lost that I wouldn't have deleted from my DVR just to review the portions with Hoyer in it. I'm pretty sure I recall him running several yards for a 1st down though, and enjoying that quite a bit!

MoLewisrocks said:

Then you're not remembering in context of 2005 vs. being elevated to starter in 2008. It would be interesting to make note of how many of you turn on this kid if he looks like crap in the next couple of preseasons...

He exhibits a very similar skillset to Cassel, poise even in the face of pressure and some mistakes, some nice athletic ability that he will have to guard against leaning on too heavily as his development progresses but it's nice to have in Tom's backup in a pinch, seems to read defenses well and is fairly accurate (which will improve with time if he in fact continues to develop within the system). Measurables wise he's a little short compared to Cassel and Brady, but if he has the intangibles that can be compensated for.

Apparently Bill has had his eye on this kid since his HS days. He made a very different choice than Brady and Cassel, who opted to compete for starting jobs at elite schools, in going with the college that would allow him to start - although apparently he was recruited by some of the big guns. Not sure what if anything that says about his competitive fire. He definitely gives off more of a Brady-Cassel vibe than Gutierrez or KOC ever did. Both of them exhibited a little of the gunslinger mentality which made them, and particularly KOC, puzzling choices here. Neither seemed to outgrow it either and I think that would always represent an achilles heal in this system.

I only saw a snipet of his presser but he seemed to be relaxed and poised/adept at handling the media. KOC always looked too excitable kinda like Sanchize.

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Even in his early years, Cassel hung on to the ball too long, thought too much, and had a bad habit of either telegraphing or throwing with his eyes first. Hoyer does not have those traits. He is very decisive.

Patspsycho said:

Even in his early years, Cassel hung on to the ball too long, thought too much, and had a bad habit of either telegraphing or throwing with his eyes first. Hoyer does not have those traits. He is very decisive.

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Not so much, and any apparent difference could easily be linked to the difference between 0 starts and 27 starts in college - but mostly you're looking at the past with dark glasses. :itsok:

Patspsycho said:

Even in his early years, Cassel hung on to the ball too long, thought too much, and had a bad habit of either telegraphing or throwing with his eyes first. Hoyer does not have those traits. He is very decisive.

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Cassel fan here. Remember Cassie hadn't played much in prior years college or pro. Hoyer had. Once Cassel got real game experience, he played very well.

Box_O_Rocks said:

Not so much, and any apparent difference could easily be linked to the difference between 0 starts and 27 starts in college - but mostly you're looking at the past with dark glasses. :itsok:

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I understand one has 0 starts in college, the other has 27 starts, but it is what it is. Hoyer has a lot of good traits.

Patspsycho said:

I understand one has 0 starts in college, the other has 27 starts, but it is what it is. Hoyer has a lot of good traits.

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Well yeh, he won #2 going away. :confused2: I'm as happy to have him as I was to have Cassel. :rocker:

Patspsycho said:

Even in his early years, Cassel hung on to the ball too long, thought too much, and had a bad habit of either telegraphing or throwing with his eyes first. Hoyer does not have those traits. He is very decisive.

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:blahblah:

If that were the case and not just rehash of message board and mediot pre season blather he would not have been the lone backup to Brady whom Flutie pointed to as ready when he opted to retire rather than become a strictly #3 veteran mentor after Cassel's rookie season. As Bill said one of Cassel's hallmarks was while he made mistakes he learned from them and didn't repeat them. Much like Brady in 2000 and 2001, if they don't show the coaches they have that self motivated capacity to improve with every teaching or learning opportunity they don't climb the depth chart (unless there is no viable option as was the case with Rohan and KOC) regardless of how much physical talent or leadership skills or effort they have shown here or in other settings.

Hoyer looks as good as Cassel did in his rookie season to those who know what they're looking for. His next public test will come in pre season but again unless you know what to look for relative to a QB succeeding in this system (running it as coached to even if those around him aren't executing) you won't be inclined to judge his progress in proper context. If he runs around and makes plays plus a few maddening but forgivable if they win mistakes with second stringers next preseason...he's history.

And if they take another QB in the draft or thereafter it won't be a sign of anything related to Hoyer unless that guy starts getting a chunk of his backup reps in camp. Bill isn't inclined to rest on his laurels. He will continue to look for developmental players at the position because of the potential value they represent both as viable insurance on your roster and as potential trading chips in a functional QB starved league.

i like em alright. i think he's gonna be great

Box_O_Rocks said:

Not so much, and any apparent difference could easily be linked to the difference between 0 starts and 27 starts in college - but mostly you're looking at the past with dark glasses. :itsok:

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There tends to be a lot more of that than use of rose colored ones here lately... It's like an I was right even if I was wrong because I was right argument...which we also feature a lot of here lately.

MoLewisrocks said:

There tends to be a lot more of that than use of rose colored ones here lately... It's like an I was right even if I was wrong because I was right argument...which we also feature a lot of here lately.

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First Base.

MoLewisrocks said:

:blahblah:

If that were the case and not just rehash of message board and mediot pre season blather he would not have been the lone backup to Brady whom Flutie pointed to as ready when he opted to retire rather than become a strictly #3 veteran mentor after Cassel's rookie season. As Bill said one of Cassel's hallmarks was while he made mistakes he learned from them and didn't repeat them. Much like Brady in 2000 and 2001, if they don't show the coaches they have that self motivated capacity to improve with every teaching or learning opportunity they don't climb the depth chart (unless there is no viable option as was the case with Rohan and KOC) regardless of how much physical talent or leadership skills or effort they have shown here or in other settings.

Hoyer looks as good as Cassel did in his rookie season to those who know what they're looking for. His next public test will come in pre season but again unless you know what to look for relative to a QB succeeding in this system (running it as coached to even if those around him aren't executing) you won't be inclined to judge his progress in proper context. If he runs around and makes plays plus a few maddening but forgivable if they win mistakes with second stringers next preseason...he's history.

And if they take another QB in the draft or thereafter it won't be a sign of anything related to Hoyer unless that guy starts getting a chunk of his backup reps in camp. Bill isn't inclined to rest on his laurels. He will continue to look for developmental players at the position because of the potential value they represent both as viable insurance on your roster and as potential trading chips in a functional QB starved league.

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Whatever floats your boat.

You aren't using specific football examples to argue your cause, just generalities.

To me that makes this a moot argument.

IcyPatriot said:

So ... to the students and teachers of the game here.

What do you think of Hoyer?

Would have been nice to see more of him ... seems like he has a lively arm.

Did he show anything in the having some touch and awareness departments?

Did you see anything in that small sample that intrigues you?

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I thought that Hoyer should have played the entire...damn...game.

And when he did play, I thought he played pretty well, prob. a bit better at similar stages in their careers than the pre-2008 Matt Cassel.

MoLewisrocks said:

Apparently Bill has had his eye on this kid since his HS days. He made a very different choice than Brady and Cassel, who opted to compete for starting jobs at elite schools, in going with the college that would allow him to start - although apparently he was recruited by some of the big guns.

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No surprise there. Belichick, Pioli, Pees, McDaniels, etc... all have huge ties to the area he's from.