Randy Moss... WTF?

As the saying goes, he is what he is... An extremely talented player that when things are going well is a devastating offensive weapon, but also a player that can lose focus and drive when the situation is challenging (see 2 years in Oakland where he was pretty much in his prime but did squat).

I think its clear that he's hit a little bump in the road here, and the key question is can he snap out of it here, or will it spiral downward like in Oakland. I'm betting on the former.

Florio will have a field day with this.

emoney_33 said:

bad day for Moss for sure, but most pathetic performance by a Patriot all season I think is going overboard. It all starts with expectations though, I wonder how bad Moss is hurting right now. It seemed Brady was trying to give him words of encouragement on the sideline a couple of times today.

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He's not on the injury report. The only practice he missed this week was due to lack of effort. Brady is fond of saying everyone is hurting this time of the season. He would know. I bet Welker could tell you a little something about hurting, too.

Zolak is predicting Randy will take the post game podium and accept responsibility for his lousy game and credit his teamtes for winning in spite of him. But he's basically hoping he's right... Randy hasn't said a wrong thing all season. Trouble is he hasn't played well down the stretch again. For whatever reason.

Bill just got asked directly about Moss' performance and the fear of disengaging, and he said there were too many drops and turnovers and that's focus and this is the time every season you need everyone to make plays. I think he's had it and he finally realizes there is a pattern emerging here and it's on that player to figure it out or not. Talked about Welker being a football player and playing hurt and how much he reminds him of another slot receiver we used to have...

There are messages being sent. If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem. Talk is cheap. Earn your keep. Find a way. Brady and Welker and Faulk and even Glass did...The OL did...A TE did. A defense without it supposedly most talented players on the field because one is in Oakland and another's in KC and some retired and one watched the game with his feet up and another got knocked out of the game twice...

Brady talking about Wes now says heart is what he's got and it's what you need in these situations. Brady says Randy is frustrated with his situation and what he was talking to him about today was fighting through it...Don't go from bad to worse because you're down in the dumps. :ugh:

Tom says we're a grind it out team again, that's apparently what we need to be now so you just do it.

jagkho said:

As the saying goes, he is what he is... An extremely talented player that when things are going well is a devastating offensive weapon, but also a player that can lose focus and drive when the situation is challenging (see 2 years in Oakland where he was pretty much in his prime but did squat).

I think its clear that he's hit a little bump in the road here, and the key question is can he snap out of it here, or will it spiral downward like in Oakland. I'm betting on the former.

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There's also another saying "Don't judge a book by its cover". You can pretend to know Moss as a person, or his feelings or how hard he is trying etc... But the fact of the matter is the media has GIVEN you your opinion on Moss, you haven't created your own. They have fed you what they wanted you to eat, and you ate it. Over the entire course of his career. There was definitely something up with Moss today, whether it be family matters, injury related, being upset with himself and letting it get to his head, etc.... Twice on the sideline Brady was giving Moss friendly words and a pat.

emoney_33 said:

it's terrible, and the boos by the fans. It's incredible how much influence the media has in how the public views a player.

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I agree that it's a lousy thing for some to give up on him, but there's also a major pattern forming here with Tom's INT's. The only INT's I can think of off the top of my head not intended for Moss were the deep EZ pass to Tate, and last week's game ender. There may have been another somewhere that I am not remembering, I'd be interested to hear other posters' takes on it. Regardless, all but 2 or maybe 3 of Brady's INT's have been attempts to Moss, some he surely could've done a better job defending. Moss, bad luck or not, is leading the other teams to many of our turnovers. I'll admit that I am questioning our attack at times, as sometimes I long for more dink and dunk short passes down the field. When we used a short passing game +/- the running game in yrs past, we were successful still. Hell, look at 06 for a great example of not having a deep passing attack, yet still seeing good production.

When we had our longest drive of the season today of 96 yds, Moss got zero looks--coincidence or not??? I realize that he takes on and moves coverage accordingly, many times drawing doubles. That obviously helps our offense, and would help it a lot more if we had a viable #3, but since we don't, I don't know if his moving coverage is being maximized to potential this year.

When teams are doubling Welker, Moss simply does not get open enough as we've seen in some of our losses. I really think doubling Welker is how you go about defeating New England, but that's just my opinion, etc. I appreciate everything Moss does/has done for the Pats, but it does seem like there are some other viable options around the league that could do just as well, if not better. Now how we'd obtain those guys is a whole other matter, so I'd guess Moss gets coupled with another viable option or 2 in his last yr coming up in 2010. I don't think our offensive drop off will be as bad as some are envisioning with Moss leaving after next yr, but I am not throwing him under the bus either, just saying teams have adjusted to dealing with him.

I think he is hurting
I think BB knows that
I think the OC is so stupid that he he keeps using him as a 1st option.
IMHO

emoney_33 said:

There's also another saying "Don't judge a book by its cover". You can pretend to know Moss as a person, or his feelings or how hard he is trying etc... But the fact of the matter is the media has GIVEN you your opinion on Moss, you haven't created your own. They have fed you what they wanted you to eat, and you ate it. Over the entire course of his career. There was definitely something up with Moss today, whether it be family matters, injury related, being upset with himself and letting it get to his head, etc.... Twice on the sideline Brady was giving Moss friendly words and a pat.

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You're right, of course I dont know Moss as a person and I've never met him. But I saw him play for 2 years in Oakland (I live in the Bay Area) and I've heard many interviews, etc. with him, and then of course I've seen him play for the Pats the past 3 years --- so that's what my comments are based on. Is that judgmental? Well yeah, sort of, but as fans thats what we do.

And I definately agree with you that something was upsetting him today and it got to his head.

its one thing to drop a pass or fumble the ball but he flat out quit and sulked like a little boy thru that game today. absolutely pathetic performance. he should write bob kraft a check and pay him back for today.

I'm always amazed when I come on the board after a win to find the things that are posted here.

supafly said:

I agree that it's a lousy thing for some to give up on him, but there's also a major pattern forming here with Tom's INT's. The only INT's I can think of off the top of my head not intended for Moss were the deep EZ pass to Tate, and last week's game ender. There may have been another somewhere that I am not remembering, I'd be interested to hear other posters' takes on it. Regardless, all but 2 or maybe 3 of Brady's INT's have been attempts to Moss, some he surely could've done a better job defending. Moss, bad luck or not, is leading the other teams to many of our turnovers. I'll admit that I am questioning our attack at times, as sometimes I long for more dink and dunk short passes down the field. When we used a short passing game +/- the running game in yrs past, we were successful still. Hell, look at 06 for a great example of not having a deep passing attack, yet still seeing good production.

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Well aside from Moss and Welker we really dont' have any more reliable receivers, so these two are targeted on the vast majority of throws. Welker isn't of the talent that Moss is in the sense of being able to catch funky throws while covered etc... So it goes to follow that most risky throws would go Moss' way. Also Brady has seemed to try to force it in to Moss at times, but when you really need a play and all of your receivers are covered, who would YOU try to force it to?

When we had our longest drive of the season today of 96 yds, Moss got zero looks--coincidence or not??? I realize that he takes on and moves coverage accordingly, many times drawing doubles. That obviously helps our offense, and would help it a lot more if we had a viable #3, but since we don't, I don't know if his moving coverage is being maximized to potential this year.

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And last week when we had a long TD it was to Moss, one isolated incident doesn't say anything one way or the other. Also without viewing the tape how can we determine how much coverage Moss was taking so as to make it easier for others to get open? The Panthers didn't seem like they gameplanned to stop Welker that much, which surprised me. I think the big thing was getting that 3rd threat out there in Ben Watson. I do agree with you that Moss taking coverages hasn't been maximized this year. We don't really have anyone aside from Welker. Watson could be that guy but he's frequently been kept in to block.

When teams are doubling Welker, Moss simply does not get open enough as we've seen in some of our losses. I really think doubling Welker is how you go about defeating New England, but that's just my opinion, etc. I appreciate everything Moss does/has done for the Pats, but it does seem like there are some other viable options around the league that could do just as well, if not better. Now how we'd obtain those guys is a whole other matter, so I'd guess Moss gets coupled with another viable option or 2 in his last yr coming up in 2010. I don't think our offensive drop off will be as bad as some are envisioning with Moss leaving after next yr, but I am not throwing him under the bus either, just saying teams have adjusted to dealing with him.

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I don't think teams have single covered Moss while doubling Welker. Although another key thing is the pressure that teams have been able to generate while doubling Welker. Moss generally runs routes that take longer to develop, so the pressure along with doubling Welker really gives this team fits. That 3rd receiver is something we are really missing IMO.

PATSNUTme said:

I'm always amazed when I come on the board after a win to find the things that are posted here.

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It's almost like there's no real safe time to be here unless we're running the table. How many pages do I have to go back for that? lol

PATSNUTme said:

I'm always amazed when I come on the board after a win to find the things that are posted here.

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Can we change the name to PatsPessimists.com?

"I'm always amazed when I come on the board after a win to find the things that are posted here."


So we have to be stupidly positive when we win, and stupidly negative when we lose?

How about balance?

MoLewisrocks said:

He's not on the injury report. The only practice he missed this week was due to lack of effort. Brady is fond of saying everyone is hurting this time of the season. He would know. I bet Welker could tell you a little something about hurting, too.

Zolak is predicting Randy will take the post game podium and accept responsibility for his lousy game and credit his teamtes for winning in spite of him. But he's basically hoping he's right... Randy hasn't said a wrong thing all season. Trouble is he hasn't played well down the stretch again. For whatever reason.

Bill just got asked directly about Moss' performance and the fear of disengaging, and he said there were too many drops and turnovers and that's focus and this is the time every season you need everyone to make plays. I think he's had it and he finally realizes there is a pattern emerging here and it's on that player to figure it out or not. Talked about Welker being a football player and playing hurt and how much he reminds him of another slot receiver we used to have...

There are messages being sent. If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem. Talk is cheap. Earn your keep. Find a way. Brady and Welker and Faulk and even Glass did...The OL did...A TE did. A defense without it supposedly most talented players on the field because one is in Oakland and another's in KC and some retired and one watched the game with his feet up and another got knocked out of the game twice...

Brady talking about Wes now says heart is what he's got and it's what you need in these situations. Brady says Randy is frustrated with his situation and what he was talking to him about today was fighting through it...Don't go from bad to worse because you're down in the dumps. :ugh:

Tom says we're a grind it out team again, that's apparently what we need to be now so you just do it.

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Great post, Mo, as usual. The fact that he's not listed on the injury report, and hasn't been in quite some time is a good point. I wonder if he's possibly hiding something a bit, although we don't really have any evidence one way or another so it's all speculation. It could be some of his old problems, or it could be some measure of injury--but there's probably not enough evidence to make a good conclusion.

I do think it's interesting that there are many other great WR's in this league that seem to get open against the elite DB's a little better than Moss does, specifically this yr. Whether or not he was purposely being used as a decoy to shift and move coverage I wouldn't know. I do know that many of our turnovers have been thrown looking to him, so I would think that other teams are doing a sufficient job of adjusting in the coverages of Moss. If we had a viable #3 I'd be happy using him as a decoy, but we don't, and that makes the situation even worse.

Snarf said:

"I'm always amazed when I come on the board after a win to find the things that are posted here."


So we have to be stupidly positive when we win, and stupidly negative when we lose?

How about balance?

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I agree, balance would be good.

But when I come here after a win I see 95% "I'm not happy unless I'm unhappy about something" threads.

How about the defense stepping up for this game? How about Maroney running the ball well? How about the team coming back from adversity for the first time this year?

But why talk about that when we can put down Moss without knowing if there is a back injury still bothering him.

PATSNUTme said:

I agree, balance would be good.

But when I come here after a win I see 95% "I'm not happy unless I'm unhappy about something" threads.

How about the defense stepping up for this game? How about Maroney running the ball well? How about the team coming back from adversity for the first time this year?

But why talk about that when we can put down Moss without knowing if there is a back injury still bothering him.

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NUT, I totally agree with you.....BUT I think some of the curiousity surrounding this has a lot to do with Moss being one of the players sent home for being late. It just doesn't seem like all's well.

Bella*chick said:

NUT, I totally agree with you.....BUT I think some of the curiousity surrounding this has a lot to do with Moss being one of the players sent home for being late. It just doesn't seem like all's well.

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They showed Tom talking to him a couple of times and he did not seem to cop and attitude. I saw him nodding his head.

Randy can have a game with no catches and still open things up for others. If I thought he was being a malcontent or a loafer I'd say so. I was one who doubted him when he first joined the team.

But I try not to be knee jerk and base my opinions on what color commentators during games say. I think that if he was being a malcontent BB wouldn't play him. he 's not afraid to sit AD down and I don't think he would be afraid of sitting Moss down either.

I'm not going to pile on Randy Moss. I assume he's hurt.

Having said that, nobody in the New England Patriots organization has any room complain about the fans booing that performance today. This team stinks, plain and simple.

All the other no 1 recivers in the league get double teamed (Larry Fitz, Wayne etc) yet they all still make their catches week in, week out

Moss either has a 200 yard game or nothing. I think a few things come into play

1 - The OC and Brady need to find ways to get Moss into the game as a reciever

2- Brady needs to stop looking Welker, Welker, Welker

3- We deseperately need a 3rd WR option (i,e, Stallworth, Gaffney). Aiken could maybe do it but hes banged up

Losing Gaffney was a dumb move IMHO

PATSNUTme said:

I agree, balance would be good.

But when I come here after a win I see 95% "I'm not happy unless I'm unhappy about something" threads.

How about the defense stepping up for this game? How about Maroney running the ball well? How about the team coming back from adversity for the first time this year?

But why talk about that when we can put down Moss without knowing if there is a back injury still bothering him.

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Given that the team won because Carolina was forced to start a QB that couldn't have beaten a Pop Warner team today and, given that it was abundantly clear that even a mediocre QB would have carved up that defense, perhaps it's understandable that people aren't all cheery about the game.