The Blame Thread - Offense/Defense/Coaching/Brady

Re: The Blame Thread - Offense/Defense/Coaching

Ian said:

You can also elaborate on what you feel is wrong, and I'd even love to hear a few people talk about what they would do to correct the issues. Let's make this a really good thread with constructive breakdowns of each area.

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The coaching, especially Bill. I think it's time to hire a good OC and DC. Bill has done nothing since he lost Charlie and Romeo. Bill should stick to just coaching and not personnel decision. The past 5 years of the draft have been less than mediocre with Bill in charge. Why stockpile draft picks when you make bad selections. Why say there are no DE/OLB's who meet the Pats profile of 6'4" 4.60 40, then waste 2 draft picks on Derrick Burgess. Why waste a draft pick and trade to get a WR and sign another old WR who are useless. Why draft a WR who is injured. Why draft run stopping D-Lineman when you have no pass rusher. Why on earth do you keep signing an old LB so he can sit on the bench and take up a roster spot.

Re: The Blame Thread - Offense/Defense/Coaching

Ian said:

You can also elaborate on what you feel is wrong, and I'd even love to hear a few people talk about what they would do to correct the issues. Let's make this a really good thread with constructive breakdowns of each area.

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Ian, I wasn't criticizing the poll or that you are simplifying the problem. I think people just like to blame one side of the ball for losing even when it is clear that both sides played their part in the loss. It isn't just for fans on this site, but fans for most teams.

I see the problems as follows:

- The lack of pressure from the pass rush. Even when they seems to penetrate the line, they don't seem to get anywhere near the QB
- The secondary is getting picked apart in large part that the opposing QB has time to throw.
- Moss is getting too easily taken out of games. It is one thing to get shut down by Darrelle Revis twice, but Mike McKenzie and Vontae Davis?
- Brady is making poor decisions and throws
- The o-line lately has struggled to protect Brady and have been inconsistent all year opening holes for the run
- O'Brien is a rookie signal caller and is definitely showing it
- Pees' defense is too passive and when they go into a prevent defense, comatose most of the time
- Belichick is making stupid decisions like not kicking the field goal today which probably would have won the game.

Fixing the problems will be tougher though, but here is what I will do:
- I think the Pats need to play with a little desperation on defense. This season is slipping away fast and they need to get a little more aggressive
- The offense needs more patience. O'Brien needs to call a better game, but Brady needs to stop thinking he needs to make every play. The INT in the red zone should have had Brady just throw it away.
- Ultimately, there needs to be an upgrade in talent at least on the defensive side of the ball. The only players currently starting in the front seven who should be starting next year are Wilfork, Warren, and Mayo. They need to upgrade the other positions and move guys like TBC, Wright, Green (if he is here), Woods, and Guyton to supporting roles while letting Thomas and Burgess go.

Re: The Blame Thread - Offense/Defense/Coaching

People want to blame O'Brien and they say we are playing out of the shotgun too often. The main reason we play out of the shotgun so much is that our line is not able to defend very well. Brady is in the shotgun so that he can see pressure coming and get rid of the ball.

Our D has problems too, the pass rush is almost non-existent. We have an inexperienced secondary, the players have the talent and will get better. Its been a huge change this year for the D with Seymour, Bruschi, Vrabel and Hobbs all gone. A lot of leaders there and guys that younger players would look up to.

Its easy to blame the co-ordinators but personally I think inexperience and in the case of the offensive line some players that are just not good enough which has been the problem with this team in our bad performances.

Re: The Blame Thread - Offense/Defense/Coaching

eagle eye said:

People want to blame O'Brien and they say we are playing out of the shotgun too often. The main reason we play out of the shotgun so much is that our line is not able to defend very well. Brady is in the shotgun so that he can see pressure coming and get rid of the ball.

Our D has problems too, the pass rush is almost non-existent. We have an inexperienced secondary, the players have the talent and will get better. Its been a huge change this year for the D with Seymour, Bruschi, Vrabel and Hobbs all gone. A lot of leaders there and guys that younger players would look up to.

Its easy to blame the co-ordinators but personally I think inexperience and in the case of the offensive line some players that are just not good enough which has been the problem with this team in our bad performances.

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I think O'Brien's play calling is a problem (but as I stated not the only problem). I still don't see the shotgun itself being the problem though. Indy uses it about as much as the Patriots (after today, it may be more) and they are 12-0. This offense didn't have problems with McDaniels using it so much.

Re: The Blame Thread - Offense/Defense/Coaching

eagle eye said:

People want to blame O'Brien and they say we are playing out of the shotgun too often. The main reason we play out of the shotgun so much is that our line is not able to defend very well. Brady is in the shotgun so that he can see pressure coming and get rid of the ball.
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I think this is backwards. I don't think any O-line can protect that well against a pretty much constant pass rush. The only guy who makes his O-line look good against repeated passing is Peyton, who is probably the greatest QB ever.

One thing that is hurting this team right now is. They seem to be stuck between fronts on defense. They used to have the personnel to be a good 34 team, but still play 43 when necessary. TBC is not the elephant or the Joker or whomever in the 34. This team is closer to a 43 team trying to run 34. With the loss of a true 34 DE we are stuck with undersized guys at two critical positions. So now teams can just scoop Vince up on the inside and they are off to the races. My fix would be to play Vince as a 43 under tackle inside and rotate Pryor or Wright as the over tackle. Leave Green and Warren on the outside. Just push the pocket all day long. Burgess and TBC are worthless edge rushers.

Re: The Blame Thread - Offense/Defense/Coaching

Rob0729 said:

Ian, I wasn't criticizing the poll or that you are simplifying the problem. I think people just like to blame one side of the ball for losing even when it is clear that both sides played their part in the loss. It isn't just for fans on this site, but fans for most teams.

I see the problems as follows:

- The lack of pressure from the pass rush. Even when they seems to penetrate the line, they don't seem to get anywhere near the QB
- The secondary is getting picked apart in large part that the opposing QB has time to throw.
- Moss is getting too easily taken out of games. It is one thing to get shut down by Darrelle Revis twice, but Mike McKenzie and Vontae Davis?
- Brady is making poor decisions and throws
- The o-line lately has struggled to protect Brady and have been inconsistent all year opening holes for the run
- O'Brien is a rookie signal caller and is definitely showing it
- Pees' defense is too passive and when they go into a prevent defense, comatose most of the time
- Belichick is making stupid decisions like not kicking the field goal today which probably would have won the game.

Fixing the problems will be tougher though, but here is what I will do:
- I think the Pats need to play with a little desperation on defense. This season is slipping away fast and they need to get a little more aggressive
- The offense needs more patience. O'Brien needs to call a better game, but Brady needs to stop thinking he needs to make every play. The INT in the red zone should have had Brady just throw it away.
- Ultimately, there needs to be an upgrade in talent at least on the defensive side of the ball. The only players currently starting in the front seven who should be starting next year are Wilfork, Warren, and Mayo. They need to upgrade the other positions and move guys like TBC, Wright, Green (if he is here), Woods, and Guyton to supporting roles while letting Thomas and Burgess go.

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You could take what Ian said and square it. We get no pressure unless we all out blitz and we pay for that and then go into a shell. We allow pressure from 3 and 4 so 5 or more is plant Brady day. He didn't make a bad throw all day. Bad decision maybe to go to the $9M man in tight coverage on a fade. I believe some were calling for more of those not that long ago... He had no options on the last snap as he was about to be sacked. The sad reality is Moss catches balls when he is wide open due to blown coverage or going across the middle where he is down on contact with no YAC or occasionally he flashes the one handed thing. But I think he mostly does that consistently in practice, when he practices...

They play him like he's the player they apparently see in practice. It doesn't translate on the field in game situations except against lesser competition. And sometimes not even then. Been this was since December of 2007 but it's like the elephant in the livingroom around here. I hope that actually is what Wes was elluding to. Unfortunately unless Moss starts playing like the guy who arrived here in Setember 2007, there isn't much else they can do at this juncture in this season. If he doesn't I hope Bill finally has the sense to move on in another direction. 'Cause this is like tapping out Corey Dillon redux only he stays on the field. Focus on the impeoving the OL thereby improving the TE's and RB's and try finding a couple of hard nosed 6' kids with Welkeresque makeup and line 'em up outside and let Brady develop them like he did Branch and Givens.

Re: The Blame Thread - Offense/Defense/Coaching

IcyPatriot said:

I'm blaming you Ian ... you are to blame.

Pees and O'Brien are trying to keep up with all the suggestions here and now they are lost.

If this site did not exist then they could just listen to Bill ... instead of learning on the job here.

Seriously ... there must be a JAG OUT THERE WHO CAN REPLACE KACZUR.

He could go 50 yards backwards if the play lasted longer ... he is the ultimate wimp.

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Agreed...Kazur is this team's Max Lane. Where is the foot speed?

We would have won had BB not gone for 4th down in the 2nd quarter.

I am OK with the secondary. A couple of blown coverages but more often than not we see great accuracy by opposing QB's ie Manning, Brees & now Henne. This is because of NO Pressure, on many completions the DB has good coverage the QB is making a perfect throw. IF we were able to apply and make the QB uncomfortable not nearly as many great throws.

We need 1 or 2 DL and a couple of LB that can apply pressure. TBC has done well but is not a stud PR, Pryor shows promise as a DL who can apply pressure. Burgess and THomas are a waste of cap space at this point. The DB have done a good job IMO given the lack of any pressure on opposing QB's

I think the fault is with the coaching. Brady is not playing well, but he certainly played well enough to win. I think the loss of Josh McDaniels is a bigger loss than we realized, and I think BB is not only overworked, but he has not introduced new elements into his system. He's been around long enough that our opponents know his tendencies; he's become too predictable. He needs to bring in some new coaching blood so that he starts thinking outside the box again.

Is it me or are we doing a lousy job at making halftime adjustments. It seems in the past we would adjust to what the other team was doing and have a counter this year the situation seems to be the reverse. We come out dominate and then after halftime we are lost and the other team stops what we have been doing.

How about kicking a field goal once and a while instead of going for every 4th down this season. Would have been the difference......

This offense only scored 7 points in the last 3 quarters. Zero points in the last 25 minutes. The offense has averaged 3.5pts in the 2nd half of our 5 losses.



By the way...

Why are all the threads about criticizing the offense being closed? There are at least four on the current page closed now, most that were 5-star threads with 30+ comments.

It's pretty ridiculous that this site isn't even allowing free discussion as it pertains to the offense.

Pass Rush, offensive play-calling, Brady.

Fixing these things this year might be like finding an extra flux-capacitor in 1956, but if we can, we have a chance. The Tits seem to have found something mid-season.

JSn said:

Pass Rush, offensive play-calling, Brady.

Fixing these things this year might be like finding an extra flux-capacitor in 1956, but if we can, we have a chance. The Tits seem to have found something mid-season.

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Each of those things is worse now than it was a month ago. There is no sign that BB has any idea yet how to fix them. There is something about "chemistry" that enables a team to play greater than the sum of its parts. The Patriots are not playing to their capabilities, and that is my standard for measuring a coach.

Mack Herron said:

Each of those things is worse now than it was a month ago. There is no sign that BB has any idea yet how to fix them. There is something about "chemistry" that enables a team to play greater than the sum of its parts. The Patriots are not playing to their capabilities, and that is my standard for measuring a coach.

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I thought the ass-kicking in New Orleans might unify this crew, but it ain't happening. I think there's something wrong in the locker room/coaching staff and it's not going to get fixed without rough surgery.

JSn said:

I thought the ass-kicking in New Orleans might unify this crew, but it ain't happening. I think there's something wrong in the locker room/coaching staff and it's not going to get fixed without rough surgery.

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It does look that way. But I do not think BB will implement any major changes any time soon. Buckle up because this is hte ride we are going to get.

after careful review...I'm blaming Canada

Joker said:

after careful review...I'm blaming Canada

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We can take it. We've got HUGE shoulders.