Road woes are overblown

I know this is probably not deserving of its own thread, but Burschi has been hitting hard on this road woes thing.

I'm not concerned about the Patriots performance on the road.

Why? They lost to the Jets early before Brady had his sea legs.

They lost at Mile High where the Patriots always suck air even when the Broncos suck and the Patriots are about to win the Super Bowl.

They lost to two teams that are currently 11-0, two teams with fantastic QBs, and in one of those games, the Patriots did not show road fear at all.

You expect the Patriots to drop a road game in the division. Losing at the Broncos is a biannual event.

Then they lost to the two best teams in the league. Guess what? They would have lost to the Saints at home as well.

Something else that Bruschi said is much more concerning. The Patriots are lousy in the second half, on both offense and defense. I'm 100x more concerned about that than I am about their road woes.

In addition to being pathetic in the 2nd half, and can't win a road game, this team's offense and defense are in the bottom 15% in red zone offense and red zone defense.

Does this look like a contender to you?

Also, why are people so afraid to say that the 2nd half, road, and red zone issues are coordinator related???

upstater1 said:

Something else that Bruschi said is much more concerning. The Patriots are lousy in the second half, on both offense and defense. I'm 100x more concerned about that than I am about their road woes.

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that's why they can't win on the road i think they had the half time lead in all but the saints game

if they would play just a lil better in the second half they would be 10 and 1.

and we would not be talking about this

You make good some good points that are all valid and I agree with but you are what your record says you are. We've **** the bed vs Indy, been shutout in the 2nd half by the Jets and Broncos, and laid an egg vs N.O. The defense was carved up in 3 out of 4 of those losses except for the Jets game vs a rookie QB in his second game. Yes the excuses are valid, but at the end of the day, they are just excuses. Time to look ahead and go get a big win on the road vs Miami to pretty much lock up the division.

The more obvious explanation is that we cannot yet beat good teams. We will see Sun if we can beat a mediocre team on the road.

Mack Herron said:

The more obvious explanation is that we cannot yet beat good teams. We will see Sun if we can beat a mediocre team on the road.

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Well the Dolphins seem to be the remedy.

Im a little concerned about Miami, because of how we play down there, but we should win... But no one is talking how the Stillers are 1-4 on the road...

Keep drinking that KoolAid, OP.

It's not so much the losing as the way they're doing it that's the genuine concern.
The defense is collapsing in the 2nd half and can't come up with a stop when the game is in the balance.
The offense has scored 0, 0, 10 and 7 points in the 2nd half of games against the Jets, Broncos, Colts and Saints.
More disturbing with the O is that while they're not scoring in the 2nd half of road games they're also not chewing up the clock to help out the D (Peyton Manning had 14 possessions to work with against the Pats - 14 - that's 3+ a quarter - suicidal!!) and they're turning the ball over on a regular basis.
The good news is they can fix their offensive woes by using all their weapons and using different looks. Would love to see Welker and little Welker on the on the field at the same time. (now that would be a ball control/clock management set up - BADLY needed on this team) )How about Ben Watson out wide on occasion?? Here's a novel concept - Tom Brady over center for a passing play. That happens like....never....and defenses know it.
The offense can be fixed.
The defense can't be fixed.
You can't teach experience and the cool under fire that comes with it. However, the D can improve significantly with smarter coaching and better utilization of the personnel. Not playing a nickel corner as a cover corner would be one such example.

The road woes are legit but can be overcome. All I know is with this QB and this HC I would not want to face this bunch in the playoffs regardless of how lousy and inconsistent they've played at times.

Ever since we collapsed against Colts in AFC championship in 2006, our "D" can never stop a good team. 2007 Offense masked our problem. Whether it is losing quality players and never replacing or poor drafting (always draft down to acquire more pick is the charm for Bill) or poor coordinators, our defense failed us every time against tough competition. Now offense can't sustain drives any more in second half. That is exposing our "D".

I am glad Saints beat the crap out of us in one way. Hopefully Bill and Kraft realize that they need to bring in some good players on "D". If not, we will be back to pre-2001 level.

Before you throw the defense under the bus for losses, are there ANY games you would attribute to losses due to the offense? Just curious. The defense since 2006 has ranked top 8 every season.

I agree the road losses are overblown. The Pats would have lost to the Saints if they played in the Super Dome, Foxboro, or the moon. The Jets at the time the Pats were playing them probably would have won in Foxboro since the Pats were without Welker and Mayo and Brady was still shakey while the Jets were flying high and trying to make a statement. You can argue that the Pats could have lost either of the other two games at home too.

As for the other concerns, yes the second half is a concern and so are other issues. But other than the Saints, the Pats have lost to teams by a TD or less (7 to the Jets, 3 in overtime to Broncos, and 1 to the Colts). That means that the Pats even with their problems can still play with anyone (other than the Saints). If they can correct these problems (and most of the problems are correctable), they can do damage in the playoffs.

The second half woes are an indication is they're not making any half time adjustments and are being way too predictable. The Pats need to change things up at the half to keep teams guessing.

maverick4 said:

Before you throw the defense under the bus for losses, are there ANY games you would attribute to losses due to the offense? Just curious. The defense since 2006 has ranked top 8 every season.

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I'd blame the Jets loss squarely on the offense and the Broncos, Colts, and Saints losses I've blamed on both units. Anybody that can't blame those three losses on both units should go back and look at the game because we weren't that good on both sides of the ball.

Rob0729 said:

If they can correct these problems (and most of the problems are correctable), they can do damage in the playoffs.

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I think most people agree to this.

A few posters here, at least, think the redzone/2ndhalf/road issues are related to scheme and play calling, so correcting these problems means changing the play calling.

maverick4 said:

Before you throw the defense under the bus for losses, are there ANY games you would attribute to losses due to the offense? Just curious. The defense since 2006 has ranked top 8 every season.

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I am throwing them under the bus Drew Brees threw them under the tank...

No lead is safe for us. The offense is unable to sustain drives too. But it is the "D" that wins championships. We don't have that.

The road woes are not overblown.

Look at the other teams that haven't had a road win at a non-neutral site yet this year... it's the Pats and then a half dozen teams with a combined record of 4-million

maverick4 said:

Before you throw the defense under the bus for losses, are there ANY games you would attribute to losses due to the offense? Just curious. The defense since 2006 has ranked top 8 every season.

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First, the poster said since the defense collapsing the the AFCCG in 2006 season, not the entire 2006 season. The Pats gave up 38 points (32 of them in the second half). You can't argue the defense didn't collapse in that game.

Second, you keep on throwing out the defense's ranking in points allowed to excuse them, but you constantly attack the offense for being the reason the Pats have lost every major games since the last Super Bowl win eventhough the offense has been ranked 10th in 2005, 7th in 2006, 1st in 2007 (and first for all time), 8th in 2008, and 4th this year in points scored. Until this year, you have pretty much blamed McDaniels for every loss.

Third, most of the losses for this team is because of problems on both sides of the ball. The defense gave up 32 points in the second half of the AFCCG in 2006 season, but the offense couldn't stay on the field long enough either in the second half. The Giants' Super Bowl, the offense couldn't handle the pressure of the Giants' front line for a large portion of the game, but the defense couldn't step up and stop the Giants on their last drive even when Eli Manning was gift wrapped interceptions that were dropped. This past Monday, the offense crapped the bed completely , but defense weren't even much of a speed bump for Brees to get to the end zone.

Fourth, until recently, the defense has gotten pretty much a free pass for years with this team with everyone blaming the offense and specifically guys like McDaniels and Reche Caldwell. Caldwell was initially totally blamed for the loss to the Colts eventhough he wasn't the one who gave up 38 points to the Colts. Even loss there is a blame pie and the entire pie never goes to one person or one side of the ball. Same with every win.

maverick4 said:

The road woes are not overblown.

Look at the other teams that haven't had a road win at a non-neutral site yet this year... it's the Pats and then a half dozen teams with a combined record of 4-million

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Look at the records of the teams the Pats lost to on the road and the ones who have beaten at home. The record for the teams they have lost on the road is 35-10 (I took out Tampa because they beat them) and only the Jets have less than 7 wins and two of the teams are undefeated. The record of the teams they have beaten at home is 37-42. They are 0-3 against teams with 7 or more wins and all of those teams were road games. It seems pretty clear that the fact that the Pats' road schedule is much harder than their home schedule could be the reason for the road woes.

maverick4 said:

I think most people agree to this.

A few posters here, at least, think the redzone/2ndhalf/road issues are related to scheme and play calling, so correcting these problems means changing the play calling.

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I don't disagree that the play calling has been a problem at times, but the play calling was excellent for the most part with McDaniels who relied heavily on the shotgun. It is a rookie signal caller getting used to situational football. Even Weis struggled in his early years and even so bad in several years that he had his in game play calling duties stripped from him.