4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here [merged 10x]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

cmasspatsfan said:

I dont buy he didnt have any confidence in the D, he thought the odds favored them getting two yards, they make that play 9 out of 10 times, maybe 10 out of 10, I didnt count on the effig refs effing up.

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Disagree. He was overly confident in the offense and not confident at all in the defense. In my angrier moments a couple of hours ago, I called it arrogance. But DaBruinz was right, it wasn't arrogance. However, it wasn't confidence either. When it comes right down to it, you do not go for 4th down at your own 30 if you have confidence in your defense... bottom line.

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

since the 2006 BB has outcoached himself to lose winnable games against the colts.out offense did its share of crap by scoring just 10 pts in the 2nd half..if itwas 4th and inches i would be okay with it and for that they couldve run the ball on 3rd and 2 and decided not to.
Our lack of faith and application in the running having 5 rbs in the roster is downright frustrating...
Oh and in the ATL game when bb went for it...he lined up and ran the ball up the middle. They couldve put big vollmer at RT for that play and have wilffork play FB if they have to.

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

I am in awe..... words cannot express the let down BB provided me with. We dominated and lost.

I never have criticized him before.... this was stupid!!!

The Offense of the PATS was great. Hubris beats the best..... bad coaching call Bill. You punt it deep and make INDY march the field to beat you.

it was on OUR 28..... ******* stupid.

The Colts did not beat us.... we beat ourselves and our coach let us down by not punting the football away.

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

It was a tough call but we saw what happens when you punt in that situation in the AFCCG a few years ago....the D was gassed so BB rolled the dice for the whole ballgame on the one play for the offense to win it, if we don't make it we lose, if we punt there's a good chance we lose anyways. I for one don't 2nd guess the call.

Re: Statistically speaking, going for it on 4th and 2 was the right call

condon84 said:

I don't blame Bill for going for it on 4th down, but te should have run it on 3rd down and then run it again on 4th down if Bill wanted his offense to win. We just needed 2 yards. Brady could have gotten two yards in two downs sneaking the ball.

It just seemed like a reactionary call on Bill's part.

This is now two games in a row at INdy that Bill has made bad decisions. Last year, he made some bad calls too at Indy. Seems like he really wants to win there and is outsmarting himself in the process.

ALso, we can't blame Maroney. Everytime he got a hand-off, there was a defender behind the LOS. Our run blocking for Maroney is atrocious.

Lastly, I blame this on playing not to lose. We lost aggressiveness on both sides of the ball.

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I blame Maroney for not holding onto the ball tight enough. That was the only reason for that fumble considering the fact that the helmet made no contact with the football whatsoever.

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

KontradictioN said:

How can you be so sure that our defense couldn't stop Manning? Because they gave up a touchdown the series before? Before that, he also threw two picks.

Sorry. The decision to go for it was an awful one. Even Rodney Harrison thinks so...

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Rodney Harrison also thinks that Tom Brady needs to take off his skirt. I like the guy, and he offers some great insight, but his opinion isn't exactly infallible

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

This meltdown started on the 2nd to last poseesiion when we just seemed content to play for a FG instead of going for a TD. I looked right at my wife and said that was a mistake, the TD would have really eneded teh game and instead we gave them life. Unfortunately I was right. I mean I think the 4th and 2 was horribel, no other way to look at it. Then another poor call was not letting Addai run into the end zone with over a minute left instead of stopping him at the 1. You knew they were gonna score, at least with a minute you could get in FG range. Instead they do the right thing in milk he clock in 2 plays for a TD, the fact of the matter is Manning is now in BB and TB's head. They have owned us recently anbd I am now beginning to question our ability to win Big Games anymore. Did anyone see BB on the sideline. It is obvious the Colts have his number now.....He didn'y help it by the way he handled teh last 4:30 of this game. I don't like our chances in them in th eplayoffs either only because BB will try to think the game too much. Teh Colts Defense is awful, and to put those points to waste was awful. Thsi game was critical in the Playoff picture and BB blew it!

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

BradyBranch39 said:

I almost screamed as loud when we tackled Addai as I did when the ref spotted that football.

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Yeah we should have pulled a Holmgren and let them score as quickly as possible.

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

Two Eight said:

It was a tough call but we saw what happens when you punt in that situation in the AFCCG a few years ago....the D was gassed so BB rolled the dice for the whole ballgame on the one play for the offense to win it, if we don't make it we lose, if we punt there's a good chance we lose anyways. I for one don't 2nd guess the call.

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Even so you can admit that there were better ways to handle that call than passing in shotgun.

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

I may be a little confused here, but isnt there a booth review with under 2 min? The clock said 1:56 and they rolled it back to 2 minutes? Wouldn't that make it a booth review? What was the roll back to 2 minutes for?

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

BradyFTW! said:

Rodney Harrison also thinks that Tom Brady needs to take off his skirt. I like the guy, and he offers some great insight, but his opinion isn't exactly infallible

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He said that was a joke. Tonight, he was dead serious and I agree with him. You don't gamble like that when you're playing Peyton Manning and you're in the shadow of your own goal post. One of BB's biggest attributes is that he does not leave anything up to chance very often. However, tat's exactly what he did tonight and chance came back to bite us in the ass. Give the Colts the long field and make them earn the TD for the win.

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

Also, having a ton of defensive backs this year we had a pretty good shot at stopping Manning since a field goal wouldn't do it. We could cover all the receivers and allow plays over the middle.

Also Manning threw some awful passes, might have had an injury.

Just astounding.

I know dungy doesn't like Belichick, but usually coaches will say stuff like calculated risk etc.

He just said you have to punt in that situation and he's right. Awful to have to hear the truth from the one coach I probably dislike more than any ever, but that's the way it goes. a gift.

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

Patstopia said:

I may be a little confused here, but isnt there a booth review with under 2 min? The clock said 1:56 and they rolled it back to 2 minutes? Wouldn't that make it a booth review? What was the roll back to 2 minutes for?

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it was just over 2 minutes.

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

KontradictioN said:

Disagree. He was overly confident in the offense and not confident at all in the defense. In my angrier moments a couple of hours ago, I called it arrogance. But DaBruinz was right, it wasn't arrogance. However, it wasn't confidence either. When it comes right down to it, you do not go for 4th down at your own 30 if you have confidence in your defense... bottom line.

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Why should he have confidence in them? The game has changed folks. If you give Manning the ball with 2:20 left, with a TO and the 2 minute warning, at home, I like his odds every time. I like his odds against the Pats, the Steelers, whoever you want. It's not an indictment of our D. Our D line was decimated. We had no pass rush, they had no chance against a hot Manning. On the other hand, we had our offense playing great. They were called on to get 2 yds. They had two plays to do it, and they failed.

It's so funny (and sad, when you think about how it affects the world) how people confuse convention with rationality.

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

Patstopia said:

I may be a little confused here, but isnt there a booth review with under 2 min? The clock said 1:56 and they rolled it back to 2 minutes? Wouldn't that make it a booth review? What was the roll back to 2 minutes for?

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The play occurred before the warning and thus would have been up to BB to challenge it. Sadly, we had wasted our last timeout and could not challenge it.

Re: Statistically speaking, going for it on 4th and 2 was the right call

KontradictioN said:

I blame Maroney for not holding onto the ball tight enough. That was the only reason for that fumble considering the fact that the helmet made no contact with the football whatsoever.

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That fumble in the end did not hurt us. The Colts did not score and we got it right back down for a first and goal and we scored.

Don't get me wrong, Maroney should have held on to the ball, but in the end, there wasn't any swing points because we still got our 7 points.

The point is, we needed to pound them with the rock and everytime Maroney got the call, he was dodging people behind the LOS. It really is ridiculous how consistenlty horrible they run block for him. Maybe it's the play designs that are horrible? I don't know, but Maroney hit the hole pretty hard tonight but he got no help from our OL.

This has to be the worst regular season loss of the Belichick era.

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

Belichick himself didn't have a coherent strategy.

If he wanted to cede the TD he could have and given Brady more time. He didn't do this, he even wasted time stopping Addai at the goal line.

If he wanted to go on 4th down he could have ran it twice. Instead he wasted plays, including a 4th down play out of shot gun, eliminating the threat of run.

He didn't have a coherent strategy on this one.

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

I am in awe..... words cannot express the let down BB provided me with. We dominated and lost.

I never have criticized him before.... this was stupid!!!

The Offense of the PATS was great. Hubris beats the best..... bad coaching call Bill. You punt it deep and make INDY march the field to beat you.

it was on OUR 28..... ******* stupid.

The Colts did not beat us.... we beat ourselves and our coach let us down by not punting the football away.

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But if they make it he's a free thinking genius. This board would be lit up with everyone calling him a genius, but most take the easy way out, this includes ex players and media and say its a bad call, its only bad if you dont make it, it was the right call in this situation, he plays the odds and this was the best odds to win the game, refs blew it and they absolutely cant eff up in that situation. Even though no one will blame the refs they'll blame BB cause it was a bad call, stupid call. IT WAS THE RIGHT FREAKING CALL AND HE MADE IT unbelievable.

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

letekro said:

Why should he have confidence in them? The game has changed folks. If you give Manning the ball with 2:20 left, with a TO and the 2 minute warning, at home, I like his odds every time. I like his odds against the Pats, the Steelers, whoever you want. It's not an indictment of our D. Our D line was decimated. We had no pass rush, they had no chance against a hot Manning. On the other hand, we had our offense playing great. They were called on to get 2 yds. They had two plays to do it, and they failed.

It's so funny (and sad, when you think about how it affects the world) how people confuse convention with rationality.

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How was the situation that we were in tonight any different than the 2003 game (with the exception that we won)?

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

Patstopia said:

I may be a little confused here, but isnt there a booth review with under 2 min? The clock said 1:56 and they rolled it back to 2 minutes? Wouldn't that make it a booth review? What was the roll back to 2 minutes for?

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The play started before the 2 minute warning which means it is inside "challenge" and not subject to official review. But since we had no timeout lefts, we could not challenge the call.