4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here [merged 10x]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

BelichickFan said:

Dude, I KNOW. I'm saying you can use the foot as a MARKER to see where the rest of the body is because without that, the angle can't show for sure as it's not a straight on view.

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and we couldnt challenge it because we burnt all our timeouts ....having said that , the 3rd and 2 call shouldve been power run or at least QB sneak if you already know u are going for it on 4h down. even last yr BB's indecision cost a timeout which burnt us in the end.

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

i dont mind bill going for it on 4th down....

what i do mind is going shotgun, and passing it

we should have ran it twice w/ lomo...even a power set, even not i dont care

but we should have ran it twice, w/ lomo, and i bet we convert both times


really? 2 yards to go, game on the line, and u pass? we arnt going anywhere like that....we should have ran it down their throats

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

aurakilla said:

he went for it bc it was pretty obv the D couldn`t stop ****.....

was the smartest thing he actaully could have done

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If that's the case then he was conceeding the TD to Indy when he went for it on 4th......... He still f'd up then by telling his defense to play defense at all then. They shoulda sat down let them score on the first play and left Brady with 2:00 about and just needing a field goal.

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

I would have punted, but they don't pay me the big bucks to make those decisions. I certainly don't second guess Belichick in this situation. Few here would have had the ref given Faulk forward progress.

==================
QUESTION ONE
How much worse would Manning's chances be if he had 75 yards to go instead of 30?

QUESTION TWO
Were our chances of winning better with 4th down play or were we better off punting.
======================
There is NO ONE in the league who understands this particular situation better than Belichick and understands the odds of winning better than he does. The only other people who MIGHT understand these odds as well as Belichick are Manning, Brandy and the OC of the colts.
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We had this discussion earlier this year. If Manning had the ball on his own 20 or 30, most would have expected Manning to succeed. I believe the exact question was would you rather have the ball on the 20 down 4 points or would you rather defend. Most here wanted the ball because with a QB like Manning or Brady who is doing well at that time in the game, the offense would be favored.

Belichick understood the odds. He also had his expected odds of getting two yards with a throw to Faulk. He made a choice. Would we really have felt better if Manning went down 75 yards to score instead of 30 yards?

Belichick trusted the offense to execute the play and HOPED the defense could stop Manning with 30 yards to go.

OPTION ONE - GO FOR IT
Belichick tried a play that had two outcomes
1) Get the two yards and almost asuuredly win the game.
2) Not get the two yards and have to stop Manning from scoring a TD with 2 minutes on the clock from the 30.

OPTION TWO - PUT THE BALL IN MANNING's HANDS
1) Punt and give the punt return team and Manning 2 minutes to go and have to keep Manning from scoring a TD in 2 minutes.

Re: Statistically speaking, going for it on 4th and 2 was the right call

Absolute garbage officiating, Butler's phantom PI and an absolute piss poor spot, it wasn't even close, that was a 1st down 9 times out of 10. I do agree with everyone that if BB decided to go for it, on that drive no matter what, he should have run on 3rd down and burned up some clock. It's real hard to beat the refs and the Colts at home, but this isn't 2006 AFCCG or the SB 42, we play next week, hopefully they move on and finish the season strong.

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

The decision to go for it on 4th down was a good one in my opinion. What I really didn't like were the decisions surrounding the 4th down decision. If Belichick was considering going for it on 4th down, the Pats should have rand the ball on 3rd and 2. At the very least the Pats needed to be in a formation that atleast suggested run on on 3rd and 2. I believe the Pats were in the shotgun for all 4 play on that series, I am not a fan of that against the undersized Colts. It was obvious to everyone in the world we were running a draw on first down to Faulk. I also have a huge issue with not going to Randy Moss on any of the 4 downs.

The biggest head scratcher to me was stopping Joseph Addai with about 40 seconds on the clock from the 2 yard line on first and goal. Belichick already established "no confidence" in his defense by going for it on 4th and 2. WHY NOT GIVE THE OFFENSE 40 SECONDS TO GET A FIELD GOAL? When the Patriots tackled Addai short of the goal line on that play, it ended the game. There was zero chance the defense would stop 3 more plays from the 1.

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

you cant put this one on the refs or the spot of the ball when you give up 35 on the road your not going to win

but the D did play better then i though they would but that was just a plan bad call by BB

you have to punt the ball and hope your D can stop them from going 70 yerd's

but you give them the ball on the 29 ?

but im not going to get that down cause that went toe to toe with a 8 and 0 team and out played them for 59 and a 1/2 min's

when you look at the team's that the pats beat and lost to this year befor the colts they are all bad team's

the jets are 4 and 5

denver has lost 3 in a row and most likey will tank like they did last year

the ravens are a 500 team

and the birds are falling fast at 5 and 4



the colts are first real team they played all year and i knew they would have to play perfact to win

so they are one bad call away from beating the best team in the NFL in there house

the way i see it this team is better then i though they was

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

Even if we had gotten the call, I would have been happy but I would still call it a ******ed decision. The defense had forced two picks of Manning in the second half and the reward did not outweigh the risk. If you get it, good. Four more downs and the game is sealed. If you do not, you give the ball to one of the greatest quarterbacks ever to play the game at your own 30. In this case, it did not work out for us and we lost. In this situation, you ALWAYS punt the ball and make Indy drive a long field for the score. ALWAYS.

Another thing, blaming the loss on the referees is not the way to go. Did we get screwed? Yes. Yet another iffy pass interference call settles the game for the Colts. And, as it looks, Faulk did get the first down there. However, the Pats did plenty to lose the game on their own. See this call, Maroney's fumble at the goal line, and Nick Kaczur doing his best impression of a turnstile. Whomever said to move Vollmer to RT when Light comes back most likely has the right idea. Vollmer did GREAT on Freeney tonight while Kaczur couldn't hold up against Mathis.

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

I don't have a problem with Belichick's call. It takes balls to go for the win rather than playing not to lose which so many coaches do. I do have a problem with the bs pass interference call on the previous series and the bs spot by the refs on Faulk's catch. I've seen this crap too many times when the Colts are at home.

BB decision was right because they got the first down. He was f'ed by the refs once again.

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

VJCPatriot said:

Why did we revamp this secondary if NOT for them to weather a 70 yard drive in the 4th quarter?? At least make the Colts beat you going the whole field, instead of giving em the shortest field possible to score on you. Driving 70 yards and having to score a TD and not a FG in less than 2 minutes is not as easy as it sounds!

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Thank you. I believe those two interceptions "stopped Peyton Manning". There's an Egyptian river running through this thread for sure.

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

cmasspatsfan said:

It was a good call any way you look at it, if they make it (and they did, pis poor spot) how many of you castigating him would call him a genius, you cant have it both ways.

He had already stopped bobbling at this point, effing refs were awful on this and the PI call.
Both teams made mistakes but to lose the game on a bad spot sucks.

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The PI call I'm okay with. Don't get me wrong, it was a bad call, but those happen. The spot, though? That was criminal, at the very least that needed to be reviewed. It happens though

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

Nikolai said:

I disagreed with the decision immensely even before the play, but now I'm seeing the other point of view. I just knew that since our defense couldn't stop Manning, I'd rather make him go 70 instead of 30 yards, just in case something bad were to happen.

The spot was pretty awful, no doubt.

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How can you be so sure that our defense couldn't stop Manning? Because they gave up a touchdown the series before? Before that, he also threw two picks.

Sorry. The decision to go for it was an awful one. Even Rodney Harrison thinks so...

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

The biggest head scratcher to me was stopping Joseph Addai with about 40 seconds on the clock from the 2 yard line on first and goal. Belichick already established "no confidence" in his defense by going for it on 4th and 2. WHY NOT GIVE THE OFFENSE 40 SECONDS TO GET A FIELD GOAL? When the Patriots tackled Addai short of the goal line on that play, it ended the game. There was zero chance the defense would stop 3 more plays from the 1.

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I dont buy he didnt have any confidence in the D, he thought the odds favored them getting two yards, they make that play 9 out of 10 times, maybe 10 out of 10, I didnt count on the effig refs effing up.

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

The biggest head scratcher to me was stopping Joseph Addai with about 40 seconds on the clock from the 2 yard line on first and goal. Belichick already established "no confidence" in his defense by going for it on 4th and 2. WHY NOT GIVE THE OFFENSE 40 SECONDS TO GET A FIELD GOAL? When the Patriots tackled Addai short of the goal line on that play, it ended the game. There was zero chance the defense would stop 3 more plays from the 1.

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I almost screamed as loud when we tackled Addai as I did when the ref spotted that football.

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

I'm in the minority, but I did like the call. Something like that is rarely seen, as most all coaches don't have BB's job security. The Pats had already given up two 2 minute 80 yard TD drives in the 4th quarter. Not to mention the 2006 AFC title game where they punted to the Colts in a similar situation and they went 80 yards in 90 seconds or so seconds to win. The play calling was the issue. I do agree with a prior poster that they should have run on 3rd and 2 if they considering going for it on fourth. And on fourth, it should have been a deeper rout.

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

Patriots Colts
PENALTIES 4 3
Penalty Yards 72 20

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

It was the right call.

It was a GENIUS call.

It's not always going to work out, but it was the correct call.

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

mgteich said:

I would have punted, but they don't pay me the big bucks to make those decisions. I certainly don't second guess Belichick in this situation. Few here would have had the ref given Faulk forward progress.

==================
QUESTION ONE
How much worse would Manning's chances be if he had 75 yards to go instead of 30?

QUESTION TWO
Were our chances of winning better with 4th down play or were we better off punting.
======================
There is NO ONE in the league who understands this particular situation better than Belichick and understands the odds of winning better than he does. The only other people who MIGHT understand these odds as well as Belichick are Manning, Brandy and the OC of the colts.
===================
We had this discussion earlier this year. If Manning had the ball on his own 20 or 30, most would have expected Manning to succeed. I believe the exact question was would you rather have the ball on the 20 down 4 points or would you rather defend.

Click to expand...

Dude please stop trying to rationally justify why going for it on 4th on your own 30 was a good call. It really cheapens and lessens your entire history of posts here.

We could argue percentages all we want, but forcing Manning to score a TD from his own 30 as opposed to our own 30, is a much superior choice to the percentage of converting that 4thd own.

One could make the same rational justification for punting against a much lesser QB. Going against Peyton makes even less sense to give him a short field when leading by less than a TD.

If Belichick wanted the ball last he could have let the Colts score much earlier and given Brady more time. If Belichick really wanted to go for it no matter what, he should have ran the ball on 3rd and 4th down. Instead, he simply screwed up and didn't follow any coherent strategy.

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

The 2 picks Manning threw were terrble passes, nothing our defense forced. They had no answer for Manning in the 2nd half, particularly the 4th quarter.

Re: Statistically speaking, going for it on 4th and 2 was the right call

I don't blame Bill for going for it on 4th down, but te should have run it on 3rd down and then run it again on 4th down if Bill wanted his offense to win. We just needed 2 yards. Brady could have gotten two yards in two downs sneaking the ball.

It just seemed like a reactionary call on Bill's part.

This is now two games in a row at INdy that Bill has made bad decisions. Last year, he made some bad calls too at Indy. Seems like he really wants to win there and is outsmarting himself in the process.

ALso, we can't blame Maroney. Everytime he got a hand-off, there was a defender behind the LOS. Our run blocking for Maroney is atrocious.

Lastly, I blame this on playing not to lose. We lost aggressiveness on both sides of the ball.