James Sanders is the Weak Link

satz · Oct 5, 2009

Funny how Sanders backs up the CB with Mason and Guyton on coverage with the RB lets rice run 50 yds ,Yet the image of the Safety trying to catch
Mason sticks out and immediately it is his fault.

Sanders has been the clean up duty when the front 7 blow their responsibilty.Yet if you read this thread it will sound like the pats give 50 yd plays 5-6 times a game as the cleanup guy is bad.

mgteich · Oct 5, 2009

I missed the fact that Delta O'Neal was given a $9M 3-year contract. O'Neal was of three one-year veteran patches while Wheatley and Wilhite developed.

1) Sanders does has done his job for years and is indeed a ROLE player. For a Belichick team, that is something to be proud of.

2) I agre that Sanders shouldn't be starting. McGowan should be. Did Sanders really get more reps that McGowan?

3) We NEED to have a #3 safety. Chung is expected to be fighting Sanders for that role in 2010. Chung is not close to able to having lots of reps now.

4) The sandwich blitz should be in the season highlights.

5) If you want a team with players that are all pros and make no mistakes, I suggest the Harlem Globetrotters or some team like that. Real NFL teams do not have players who don't make mistakes, certainly not their #3 safety.

BOTTOM LINE
We have two FINE starters in Meriweather and McGowan.
We have a fine backup in Sanders.
We have a fine prospect for 2010 nd beyond in Chung. He's getting some 2009 reps.

mcsully · Oct 5, 2009

mgteich said:
I missed the fact that Delta O'Neal was given a $9M 3-year contract. O'Neal was of three one-year veteran patches while Wheatley and Wilhite developed.

1) Sanders does has done his job for years and is indeed a ROLE player. For a Belichick team, that is something to be proud of.

2) I agre that Sanders shouldn't be starting. McGowan should be. Did Sanders really get more reps that McGowan?

3) We NEED to have a #3 safety. Chung is expected to be fighting Sanders for that role in 2010. Chung is not close to able to having lots of reps now.

4) The sandwich blitz should be in the season highlights.

5) If you want a team with players that are all pros and make no mistakes, I suggest the Harlem Globetrotters or some team like that. Real NFL teams do not have players who don't make mistakes, certainly not their #3 safety.

BOTTOM LINE
We have two FINE starters in Meriweather and McGowan.
We have a fine backup in Sanders.
We have a fine prospect for 2010 nd beyond in Chung. He's getting some 2009 reps.

Please stop using facts and intelligence to back up your point! There's no place for that here!

DW Toys · Oct 5, 2009

JackBauer said:
You do realize being the third safety doesn't mean he'll be sitting, right?

Dear JB,
?
DW Toys

cstjohn17 · Oct 5, 2009

QB12 said:
Consistently getting beaten, slow, out of position. He's a liability on the field. If it weren't for Meriweather, Mason would have scored on the long pass Meriweather broke up at the last minute.

Sit James Sanders. Now.

QB12

High class problem to have, Sanders is a middle of the road player who will never be great but is generally in the right spot and adds some value of special teams. For now I have him 3rd, ahead of Chung but that may change by the end of the year.

DW Toys · Oct 5, 2009

VJCPatriot said:
I was met with the same skepticism when I questioned whether Vrabel was worth 5M on the books. We all know how that turned out. So don't be so sure about Sanders being a lock at 3M.

You sounded reasonable up until the point you compared Sanders to Ronnie Lott. That's gotta be a joke, right?

Jarvis Green gets $5m as a backup until this year. Is $3m starters money? Wasn't he lowballed by the Pats and still came back? They did not even offer him what two other teams did. I would not say they went out of there way to sign him. He knew the system which is important to BB and no other safeties were on the roster that made sense at that time. At $3m a backup role might be o.k.
If you look at playing time isn't Chung doing the BM deal of two years ago?
DW Toys

Synovia · Oct 5, 2009

HEY BRO! WHAT UP? said:
Despite people saying "Maualuga wouldn't fit in with this defense" is bullsh*t because we don't know that! He's a starting LB with the Bengals and he's looking pretty damn good. Although the Pats passed on him, I was hoping the Pats would've taken Oher who fell right into their laps with their 1st round pick. I'd rather have Oher than Brace and Tate.

He's looked good? The bengals defense is f'ing terrible. He's had lots of tackles because offenses keep getting to run plays.

Did you ever think the reason that he didn't draft Ray is not because he didn't think Ray would be good, but because the team had bigger needs? That Guyton and Mayo are fine?

emoney_33 · Oct 5, 2009

The_Riddler said:
Give me a break with Koolaid please:

Just because BB inked him to a 3 year deal means that justifies his spot as a starter in this defense, are you kidding me ?

3 year EXTENSION after being in the system for a few years. And yes that means infinitely more than your fanatical judgement based on an extremely tiny percentage of plays you have seen the last few years via the incredibly limited TV feed.

BB also signed Deltha O'Neal
BB also traded a 3rd and a 4th for all world Derrick Burgess
BB also signed Fernando Bryant as a projected starting CB
BB also passed on Rey Maualuga, not once but twice
etc, etc......

I didn't realize he extended any of those players for 3 years after being in the system for a few years. Yea I'm pretty sure neither O'Neal or Bryant lasted even half a season as a starter. Great comparisons!

Who cares that he signed Sanders to a 3-year deal, who really cares, what does that mean to how James Sanders plays football in this defense. He's a non-play maker who tends to take bad angles. It needs an upgrade. Enough of the excuses.........

I CARE, plain and simple. I will trust BB's talent evaluation abilities over yours any day of the week and twice on Sunday. You think you can evaluate a player by watching TV better than BB can? Especially a player that BB has seen in his system for a few years and felt worthy of an extension? Oh the foolish narcissism!

No one ever said Sanders was pro-bowl caliber or impossible to upgrade. The fact is that some of you go WAY overboard in calling for his head. He's not nearly as bad as you ATTEMPT to make him out to be.

mgteich · Oct 5, 2009

After all these years, are you satisfied with our safety situation for 2009 and 2010?
STARTERS: Meriweather, McGowan
BACKUP: Sanders
HIGHLY RATED PROSPECT: Chung

DW Toys said:
Jarvis Green gets $5m as a backup until this year. Is $3m starters money? Wasn't he lowballed by the Pats and still came back? They did not even offer him what two other teams did. I would not say they went out of there way to sign him. He knew the system which is important to BB and no other safeties were on the roster that made sense at that time. At $3m a backup role might be o.k.
If you look at playing time isn't Chung doing the BM deal of two years ago?
DW Toys

captain stone · Oct 5, 2009

QB12 said:
Consistently getting beaten, slow, out of position. He's a liability on the field. If it weren't for Meriweather, Mason would have scored on the long pass Meriweather broke up at the last minute.

Sit James Sanders. Now.

QB12

So what else is new?

The sucky thing is, Bill just signed this lil' JAG to a new 3-year deal.

He should've signed Sean Jones instead.

Adam Seward · Oct 5, 2009

Not everyone can be a playmaker; especially not in a bend-dont-break defense. Sanders provides what his position entails, saftey. Is he perfect? No. Lets not fool ourselves here, he is more than sufficient at bottling up mistakes by the front 7 most of the time. He doesnt give bone jarring hits but he is a fairly certain open field tackler.

HEY BRO! WHAT UP? · Oct 5, 2009

Synovia said:
He's looked good? The bengals defense is f'ing terrible. He's had lots of tackles because offenses keep getting to run plays.

Did you ever think the reason that he didn't draft Ray is not because he didn't think Ray would be good, but because the team had bigger needs? That Guyton and Mayo are fine?

You obviously didn't read my last sentence even though it is copied in your quote. I said I'd rather have had Oher than a LB or trading out of the first round.

tedylb · Oct 6, 2009

A few points I think were omitted here:

JS is only 25 years old. The coaches feel he has an upside.

His job is playing centerfield and he rarely gets beaten deep. How many thirty-plus yard completions has he been responsible for in the last few years?

He came on a safety blitz a few times in the Ravens game-no sacks, but he caused some hurries. I believe we'll see Sanders do this more in the future.

He is an excellent special teamer who plays with intensity.

All Pro? Hell no. But if he's as bad as some claim here, our D would be giving up a lot more points than they have. He's a role player who does his job, or BB would have benched or cut him long ago.

billdog3484 · Oct 6, 2009

i would love for patrick chung to come in and start....but, from what i saw from him in the pre-season, im not that optimistic that he will be better than sanders at this point.

Kasmir · Oct 6, 2009

tedylb said:
A few points I think were omitted here:

JS is only 25 years old. The coaches feel he has an upside.

His job is playing centerfield and he rarely gets beaten deep. How many thirty-plus yard completions has he been responsible for in the last few years?

He came on a safety blitz a few times in the Ravens game-no sacks, but he caused some hurries. I believe we'll see Sanders do this more in the future.

He is an excellent special teamer who plays with intensity.

All Pro? Hell no. But if he's as bad as some claim here, our D would be giving up a lot more points than they have. He's a role player who does his job, or BB would have benched or cut him long ago.

He *has* been benched for Magowan, who's no pro-bowler himself. IMO part of the reason Magowan has looked so good is because he's replacing Sanders, who has accustomed us to weak safety play. Our 3rd and long defense with Sanders in there last year was horrible. Hobbs and O'Neal get some blame for that, but Sanders does too. He's not a playmaker and has problems in space. Sanders is a smart, aggressive overachiever but a marginal NFL starter at FS. I think he is a more than adequate backup and a good special teamer.

JoeShmoe · Oct 6, 2009

If you look at the play counts this week

Merriweather - 70 out of 70
McGowan - 60 out of 70
Sanders - 39 out of 70

So it looks to me as if McGowan is beating him out at S and he's becoming more of a 3rd down player

I see that as being a reflection on how good McGowan has been rather than how poor Sanders is

BennyBledsoe · Oct 6, 2009

If Sanders is the weak link...the defense should be alright.

He's not bad, he's not amazing. He does his job and rarely makes mistakes...or plays, but that's who he is at this point.

BradyFTW! · Oct 6, 2009

JoeShmoe said:
If you look at the play counts this week

Merriweather - 70 out of 70
McGowan - 60 out of 70
Sanders - 39 out of 70

So it looks to me as if McGowan is beating him out at S and he's becoming more of a 3rd down player

I see that as being a reflection on how good McGowan has been rather than how poor Sanders is

It could say that, definitely (and probably does to an extent), but it might also be more a reflection of the huge run/pass disparity in Baltimore's playcalling. Sanders plays the run better than he does the pass, and Baltimore wasn't running.

tedylb · Oct 6, 2009

2008:

James Sanders, 25, was originally drafted by the Patriots in the fourth round (133rd overall) of the 2005 NFL Draft out of Fresno State. The 5-foot-10-inch, 210-pound safety has played in 55 games with 36 starts over four seasons in New England (2005-08). Sanders has totaled 198 tackles (144 solo), one sack, five interceptions for 112 yards and a touchdown, 10 passes defensed, one forced fumble and 21 special teams tackles. In 2008, Sanders started all 14 games in which he played and recorded 66 tackles, a total that ranked second among Patriots defensive backs and ranked sixth on the team. Additionally, Sanders recorded an interception, three passes defensed and four special teams tackles last season.

Not too lame.. This year he's 6th in tackles in less than full time snaps

bagwell368 · Oct 6, 2009

Sanders on his best day is average. I'm confident that the Pats are expecting Chung to overtake Sanders in playing time by week 11-12, and make up a 3 man rotation with McGowan and Merri. At that point Sanders might be getting 12 snaps a game which is plenty to help the others stay fresh.

According to Reiss on 4/5/09 (at Miguel's site) Sanders gets:

2010: $2.3M salary
2011: $2.8M salary

plus pro rated slices of a $1.8M signing bonus
plus work out bonuses of $80-100k

so if he is cut before his next workout bonus it will cost $2.482M against the cap if I am reading this right.

I expect BB to be bringing in safties as usual, and if he finds one he likes better for the right price, Sanders might just be toast.

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