Two players - one plays, one doesn't - and what it does or doesn't say...

letekro said:

No, he weighed about 300, and if you believe he only weighs 325 now like the media guide says, I've got some swampland to sell you.

And, the Ravens were always 4-3 when Ray Lewis was in his prime (i.e., the Marvin Lewis years).

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JackBauer said:

We don't even know yet what we have in Brace.

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letekro said:

We know that he's 6-4, 330 lbs. We know he was highly productive on one of the best defenses in college football. We know that he has held his own when he has played. We know that BB has a tremendous track record with high DL picks. We know that he will receive tremendous coaching. We know a little bit.

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JackBauer said:

I'd venture to say he weighed more than 300, but I can't find anything to confirm it so it's neither here nor there.

Regardless, I think you can see from Lewis' performance that it's not much affected by playing in the 4-3 or the 3-4. I think they're going for the 4-3 because they don't have the depth to play the 3-4.

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Wheatley has been hobbled by a knee injury and Wilhite was beaten on the passes to Cotchery and Keller.

Trailing 13-9 with 1:59 left in the third quarter, the Patriots had the Jets backed up at their 12-yard line, facing third-and-13. Stop them and New England might have good field position after a punt. But Sanchez dropped back and hit Leon Washington over the middle for a 14-yard gain and a first down.

“We had what we had thought would be a decent call against it, but it turned out not to be,” Pees said. “We got out of our zones a little bit, getting a little antsy, and (Sanchez), give him credit, he stuck one in there on us. That was certainly a third down that we should have got off the field and we didn’t.”

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With the offseason retirement of Rodney Harrison, safety James Sanders has emerged as the leader of the secondary.

Belichick said communication on defense has improved this season — “that wouldn’t take much” — but Sanders saw some problems against the Jets after an opening 25-24 win over the Buffalo Bills.

“It was pretty bad,” Sanders said. “We just have to do a better job of it all around, guys communicating and getting on the same page. For the most part during camp and early in the Buffalo game we did pretty well communication-wise. But last game we had some plays where we didn’t do a great job as a team.”

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patsox23 said:

MYRON PRYOR played, in my opinion, a whale of a game, given the nature of how he got in there. Not a week when he can prep and study AS THE STARTER ('though, of course, he'd need to prep as if he would be), but - as with Cassel-for-Brady or Guyton-for-Mayo - as a guy thrust into a BIG spot early in the game. (Why does it always have to happen EARLY?!) It'll be interesting to see what happens if Wilfork's out for a bit. If Pryor continues to do a solid job, it's more evidence for the Patriots to base their decision on whether or not to sign VW at the end of the year. I say this as someone who would REALLY like them to sign him long-term, but I was pleased to see such a creditable showing by the rookie.

JONATHAN WILHITE was, if I understand correctly, a healthy scratch today. Granted he had poor coverage last week (and poor tackling), but I was surprised to see such a big demotion, if that is indeed what it was, especially considering DARIUS BUTLER was out, as well.

What do we make of this performance/healthy scratch? What do we read into it, if anything?

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letekro said:

Ok, look I don't know what your agenda is and why you're arguing about such minutiae, but if you're really a UM fan, I hope that you can see the difference in size and quickness between UM Vince and Pats Vince, whether it's 30 lbs, 50 lbs, or 100 lbs.

And you're missing the point in your second paragraph. When Lewis could run, they weren't going to hide him inside in a 3-4. He's still good, but he would not be effective in a 3-4 anymore because he's lost a lot of speed.

Bottom line, everything BB has done with respect to the defense and everything that has been said about Mayo by Bruschi and others indicates that Mayo is the building block of the defense, and all personnel decisions will be made with that background. That being the case, IMO, they will mostly feature the 4-3.

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JackBauer said:

So we know that he is a big guy, who played next to the best DT in college football.

We also know that a 6th round pick has been playing over him so far.

In other words, we don't have a clue whether he's an adequate replacement for Wilfork.

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letekro said:

But, the point is......ok.....slowly....they will be predominantly 4/3 as long as Mayo is in his prime.

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letekro said:

But, the point is......ok.....slowly....they will be predominantly 4/3 as long as Mayo is in his prime. When they go 3-4, however, they will not have Steve Martin in there, they will have a guy that is huge, with a ton of potential. We never know anything for sure until these guys build up a track record....but to say we don't have any clue I think is wrong. The guy looked strong and explosive in college and in the preseason. And i don't understand your reasoning about Raji. So we don't know Wilfork is any good because he always played next to Seymour and Warren??? or vice versa?

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patsox23 said:

Um...says who? You? I mean, that may end up happening, but your tone seems to suggest it's a foregone conclusion. It ain't.

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Keegs said:

hey chief, not sure what you are talking about... Wilhite was solid last week.

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JackBauer said:

Spare me the condescension, will you?

You haven't a clue whether Brace will be any better than Steve Martin. Neither do I. I'm sure the coaching staff has a better read, but that's irrelevant when we're talking about resigning Wilfork.

And of course playing next to disgusting players, especially on a line, will make you look better. I figured that was pretty much common sense.

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letekro said:

So, how do we know Vince is any good, following that logic?

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JackBauer said:

Um, because he's played at a borderline Pro Bowl level in the NFL.

QUOTE]

So you're illogic only applies at the college level? Look, Bauer, your boy VW is on the way out unless he drastically reduces his demands. I went to UM and I own a VW jersey, so I'll be sorry to see him go, but throwing logic out the window to make your points is not going to change that.

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letekro said:

JackBauer said:

Um, because he's played at a borderline Pro Bowl level in the NFL.

QUOTE]

So you're illogic only applies at the college level? Look, Bauer, your boy VW is on the way out unless he drastically reduces his demands. I went to UM and I own a VW jersey, so I'll be sorry to see him go, but throwing logic out the window to make your points is not going to change that.

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Seriously?

Do you not see the distinction between playing in college versus the NFL when it comes to evaluating one's ability to play at an NFL level?

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JackBauer said:

letekro said:

Seriously?

Do you not see the distinction between playing in college versus the NFL when it comes to evaluating one's ability to play at an NFL level?

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You're changing the subject because you know you made a stupid argument. You said, we can't evaluate Brace because he played next to Raji. I said we can't evaluate Wilfork because he played next to Seymour and Warren. It's the same argument. I don't see how the level of competition somehow makes the argument valid in the one case, and invalid in the other.

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letekro said:

No, he weighed about 300, and if you believe he only weighs 325 now like the media guide says, I've got some swampland to sell you.

And, the Ravens were always 4-3 when Ray Lewis was in his prime (i.e., the Marvin Lewis years).

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letekro said:

JackBauer said:

You're changing the subject because you know you made a stupid argument. You said, we can't evaluate Brace because he played next to Raji. I said we can't evaluate Wilfork because he played next to Seymour and Warren. It's the same argument. I don't see how the level of competition somehow makes the argument valid in the one case, and invalid in the other.

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I'm going to pray you're not really this dense.

We've already seen Vince Wilfork play at an NFL level without the presence of Warren and/or Seymour.

We've yet to see Ron Brace play in the NFL, and in college he had the benefit of playing next to Raji. This does not imply that Wilfork hasn't had the same benefit, however we have seem him perform without said teammates.

In summation, there is nothing to suggest that at this point in time, Brace can be deemed Wilfork's successor.

Hopefully this clears things up for you.

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patsox23 said:

MYRON PRYOR played, in my opinion, a whale of a game, given the nature of how he got in there. Not a week when he can prep and study AS THE STARTER ('though, of course, he'd need to prep as if he would be), but - as with Cassel-for-Brady or Guyton-for-Mayo - as a guy thrust into a BIG spot early in the game. (Why does it always have to happen EARLY?!) It'll be interesting to see what happens if Wilfork's out for a bit. If Pryor continues to do a solid job, it's more evidence for the Patriots to base their decision on whether or not to sign VW at the end of the year.

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