Mod Merge: Everything You Ever Wanted To Know Re: Vick and the Pats

PATRIOT64 said:

For those of you who said you would not support the Patriots if they signed Vick then get the hell off the bandwagon and go buy some Jets season tickets,they need to sell some

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No way. If the Patriots sign Vick, the whole NFL is dead to me.

PATRIOT64 said:

For those of you who said you would not support the Patriots if they signed Vick then get the hell off the bandwagon and go buy some Jets season tickets,they need to sell some

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I could handle the Patriots signing Vick. But if it means that sancromounus douche Dungy is gonna be in the Patriots locker room I might have to switch to the Jets.

Sick of all the talk, first off. Wish this was over.

My take:

I voted "okay by me" as the guy served his time. What is prison for if we're going to just blackball guys who serve their time, and serve it with no incidents? If we're not going to give those released a shot to integrate back into society, logic would tell us why not just give everyone life sentences?

I'm avoiding discussing his crimes as I know it's a powderkeg. And I think my argument above should stand on its own legs. Whether the crime was rape, molestation, assault, attempted murder, robbery or manslaughter...if you do the time and show genuine remorse and attempt to turn your life and others' lives around, I'm okay with you getting another shot.

Albeit, I understand those who don't want him in the league as it's a private industry and I staunchly believe in private industry being able to exclude whomever.

PATRIOT64 said:

For those of you who said you would not support the Patriots if they signed Vick then get the hell off the bandwagon and go buy some Jets season tickets,they need to sell some

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Grow up. The owner of this team is on record stating he feels the same way many of us do and in fact he would sell the team and get out of the NFL altogether if in order to improve his odds of winning he had to hire thugs and hoodlums. He has principles, unlike the bandwaggon segment of his fanbase.

Those who hide behind the Dillon and Moss signings are just throwing up red herrings. Neither was considered a thug or hoodlum, but rather a troublesome malcontent stuck on dysfunctional teams who had occasionally run afoul of the law. There are a lot of guys like that in the NFL, it's the nature of the beast. Neither Randy nor Corey incurred felony convictions while in the employ of the NFL. Their most serious infractions occurred while in HS or college. Every now and then in life essentially good people make bad decisions in the heat of the moment. Kraft had to be convinced that was the case with Moss and Dillon. And that all they wanted was a chance to win a ring.

Vick ran an illegal organized dog fighting ring the entire time he was in the league. Dog fighting is increasingly tied to illegal gambling, illegal guns, illegal drugs, and gang violence. 65% of dog fighters go on to abuse and injure two legged creatures. In other words, thugs and hoodlums. He is a free agent because he went to prison for 19 months, during which time, once rid of him, the team he was once paid $100M to lead and then left in shambles got themselves turned around. Vick didn't make a mistake. He lived a lifestyle that many other mentors attempted in vain to convince him was going to be his undoing. His only regret is that it was. He could care less about winning a ring. He just wants to be a QB making $10M per again.

He wasn't willing to come clean with the Feds about organized dogfighting, even after he agreed to as part of his plea bargain, even if it meant a longer sentence. But he is now willing to tell all the young gang members and inner city youth who fight their dogs in backyards and basements that they should learn from his mistake... Learn what, that life goes on although you may have to do a little time. Hell, that's considered earning street cred within their community. Michael will do whatever it takes to get his old job and salary back. And whomever gives it to him will get the same guy back that Atlanta couldn't give away. His handlers just hooked him up with a higher class set of enablers this time around because they had no other choice...

mikegibbons said:

What is prison for if we're going to just blackball guys who serve their time, and serve it with no incidents?

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That line of reasoning applies well enough to society's rank-and-file offenders. Vick's case is exceptional -- a millionaire pampered athlete who has never lived in the "real" world and whose sociopathic behaviors have been swept under the rug at every turn because he's a lucrative cash cow with handlers and enablers.

MoLewisrocks said:

Hell, that's considered earning street cred within their community.

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oh those crazy blacks and their prison sentences

Tunescribe said:

That line of reasoning applies well enough to society's rank-and-file offenders. Vick's case is exceptional -- a millionaire pampered athlete who has never lived in the "real" world and whose sociopathic behaviors have been swept under the rug at every turn because he's a lucrative cash cow with handlers and enablers.

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Vick is second of four children (including older sister Christina ("Niki") and younger siblings Marcus and Courtney) born in Newport News, Virginia, to Brenda Vick and Michael Boddie, then unmarried teenagers.[1] His mother worked two jobs, obtained some public financial assistance, and had help from her parents, while his father worked long hours in the shipyards as a sandblaster and spray-painter.[2] They were married when Michael was about five years old, but the children elected to continue to use their "Vick" surname. The family lived in the "Ridley Circle Homes," a public housing project in a financially depressed and crime-ridden neighborhood located in the East End section of the port city. It is an area known in hip hop culture by the slang names "Bad News" or "Bad Newz" according to the Urban Dictionary. A 2007 newspaper article published in the Richmond Times-Dispatch noted "not much changed" by observations of local people almost ten years after Michael Vick left. One resident said that there were drug dealing, drive-by shootings and other killings in the neighborhood, then suggested that sports were a way out and a dream for many.[3]

In a 2001 interview, Vick told the Newport News Daily Press that when he was 10 or 11, "I would go fishing even if the fish weren't biting, just to get out of there" and away from the violence and stress of daily life in the projects. Even though the area is, by all accounts, troubled, several people interviewed did not believe that dog fighting was a local activity.[3]

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Seems like a "real world" to me...

Deus Irae said:

Seems like a "real world" to me...

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no but you see he had a lot of money at one point

Deus Irae said:

Seems like a "real world" to me...

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Cut the apologetic crap. When was the last time your boy had a job other than football and had to fend for himself? The minute he flashed his extraordinary athletic skills, the handlers/enablers swooped in. He abdicated all sense of personal responsibility and stopped growing up. But it goes much, much deeper than that with Vick, as his actions have demonstrated ON MORE THAN ONE OCCASION.

Tunescribe said:

Cut the apologetic crap. When was the last time your boy had a job other than football and had to fend for himself? The minute he flashed his extraordinary athletic skills, the handlers/enablers swooped in. He abdicated all sense of personal responsibility and stopped growing up. But it goes much, much deeper than that with Vick, as his actions have demonstrated ON MORE THAN ONE OCCASION.

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Hey, you've got a wild hair across your ass about the guy, I get it. But, whether you like it or not, he lived in the 'real world'.

Tunescribe said:

Cut the apologetic crap. When was the last time your boy had a job other than football and had to fend for himself? The minute he flashed his extraordinary athletic skills, the handlers/enablers swooped in. He abdicated all sense of personal responsibility and stopped growing up. But it goes much, much deeper than that with Vick, as his actions have demonstrated ON MORE THAN ONE OCCASION.

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And he didn't take up dog fighting until he was in college, when...apparently...he'd already begun to have access to some serious money...

He fished to get away from a place that was bad newz where they didn't see dog fighting in his youth. Then once he had some $$$ he embarked on a quest to establish an illegal dog fighting enterprise named after the place he hated and yearned to get away from... His not entirely absentee father tried to get him to stop as he tended the injured dogs in their backyard - the ones Mama Vick never did see...

He should have taken a page out of Drew's book and just stuck with fishin...

PATRIOT64 said:

For those of you who said you would not support the Patriots if they signed Vick then get the hell off the bandwagon and go buy some Jets season tickets,they need to sell some

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They're too expensive

Deus Irae said:

... whether you like it or not, he lived in the 'real world'.

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My definition of living in the "real world" is making your way in life as a self-sufficient, responsible adult human being. You know, where you have to do things like buy groceries, pay the electric bill, consider the consequences of unprotected sex or illegal drug use, etc. Vick has yet to live in the real world and probably never will if he lands another lucrative NFL contract.

Tunescribe said:

My definition of living in the "real world" is making your way in life as a self-sufficient, responsible adult human being. You know, where you have to do things like buy groceries, pay the electric bill, consider the consequences of unprotected sex or illegal drug use, etc. Vick has yet to live in the real world and probably never will if he lands another lucrative NFL contract.

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Great. So your definition of the real world is exactly what you decide it needs to be in order to keep bashing Vick. How convenient that you just ignore the childhood.

You're being absolutely ridiculous on this issue, and there's no sense continuing this discussion.

i hope the patriots sign vick just to see tunescribe fly off his rocker

Vick has served his time, lost well over $100 million and two of his prime years as an NFL player, so I feel he has been sufficiently punished for his crime.

My problem with the Vick signing is 100% football related. I'm not a fan of the wildcat (it was found out by the end of the last season anyway) and I want Brady behind center until it's garbage time, then O'Connoll can get his experience.

But if Vick is signed, then in BB we trust, and we should all give him our full support.

Tunescribe said:

My definition of living in the "real world" is making your way in life as a self-sufficient, responsible adult human being. You know, where you have to do things like buy groceries, pay the electric bill, consider the consequences of unprotected sex or illegal drug use, etc. Vick has yet to live in the real world and probably never will if he lands another lucrative NFL contract.

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oh come on, I'm no fan of Michael Vick, but using your criteria you'd rule half of our politicians, nearly all Hollywood/TV/runway celebrities, most highly successful professional athletes, everybody who was born with a trust fund or family money and millions of humanly underdeveloped, emotionally immature "ordinary people" out of your "real world." whether we like it or not, those people are all part of the world in which we live and can use the internet and other media to be very "real," once again whether we like it or not.

Michael Vick is a product of his own background, which includes the celebrity culture that we all perpetuate every time we go to the movies, watch a sporting event or pay our cable bill. I don't like what he did and would prefer it if he didn't play in New England, but he's no better or worse than a lot of other people.

The NFL allows "rehabilitated" (in the sole opinion of the Commissioner) felons to play in the league. As the father of young children, I really don't like that and wish that the NFL had a policy that said if you plead to or are convicted of a felony, you're out of the league, but there's nothing I can do about it and, as far as I can see, there's no reasonable way to distinguish one felony from another; animal abuse, assault, attempted rape, illegal possession of a concealed deadly weapon--I don't like any of those things and don't put one higher or lower on the despicable scale than the other. If someone doesn't like that Vick is playing (should he play) s/he should choose to demonstrate at his playing venues, boycott the NFL or not watch the games in which he plays.

Vick carried out an extended, extensive conspiracy to do evil things.

That's why I'd never root for him, or a team that hired him.

Saying he's sorry isn't nearly enough. No way I'm changing my feelings until he's lived a different life for quite a while afterwards, voluntarily (e.g., out of prison).

You know what would change the minds of a lot of people's opinions regarding Vick?

If Mike would take those 6 weeks of suspension and use them as a unpaid volunteer with a supervisor on watch at one or more of these locations..

Virginia Pet Shelters and Animal Rescue

I think he is banned from being around any animal but if I were Vick and I could do this to stop the hatrid towards me and wanted to be accepted again by fans,I would do this in a new york minute.

Fencer said:

Vick carried out an extended, extensive conspiracy to do evil things.

That's why I'd never root for him, or a team that hired him.

Saying he's sorry isn't nearly enough. No way I'm changing my feelings until he's lived a different life for quite a while afterwards, voluntarily (e.g., out of prison).

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i respect that you would never root for him and i strongly do agree that "sorry" isn't enough. in fact, i feel that the NFL should ban all convicted felons, but, given that the NFL allows convicted felons who are rehabilitated to play in the league, how do we distinguish what Vick did from assault, or from bringing a loaded, illegally concealed gun into a crowded place and discharging it, or from rape, or from attempted rape?

that's where i disagree with you and a couple others out here. i don't question your motives or judgment, i just don't see how the league can ban Vick and not others.