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Cassel has Moss to thank for his good fortune


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I don't want to get into a pointless discussion over running game or the talent that surrounded Cassel. Let's say I cede your point. It still doesn't address the fact that even as a non-guaranteed legit QB, Cassel still isn't overpaid or overrated relative to the RIDICULOUS deals other QB's have gotten with less NFL production or as high college picks.

As for your question: [My question is if you all think he's honestly worth that kind of money what do you think about the small amount the Pats got for him in trade? If he's a franchise QB, a young franchise QB, as a lot of you are saying, and you don't think he's just a one year wonder, why didn't the Pats get more in trade for him? Especially given the whole Cutler trade and the amount the Broncos got for him?]

You're new here so it's understandable you don't know, but Belichick had to clear up cap space (unload Cassel's huge cap number) immediately in order to quickly sign Chris Baker and Fred Taylor (and later Leigh Bodden and Shawn Springs). He could have gotten a pick maybe 15 spots higher if he waited a long time, but he couldn't have played in free agency. He took the best deal he got. The other teams sat with thumbs up their arses and didn't make legit offers until it was too late.

I understood about the cap space, but really, if you honestly believe Cassel is that good of a QB they should have gotten more for him. It's not just me saying that, there were a whole lot of people scratching their heads after that trade.

Anyway we'll see I guess. I just don't believe Cassel has proven anything yet, certainly not enough to be considered an elite QB.
 
I understood about the cap space, but really, if you honestly believe Cassel is that good of a QB they should have gotten more for him. It's not just me saying that, there were a whole lot of people scratching their heads after that trade.

Anyway we'll see I guess. I just don't believe Cassel has proven anything yet, certainly not enough to be considered an elite QB.

As was said on here many times around the time of the Cassel trade, why would the Pats have wanted a high first rounder that they probably wouldn't have been able to shift if they didn't like anyone in the spot?

I find it hilarious that people complain about the deal being done at 'mates rates', but then turn round in the same breath and say Cassel isn't worth a first rounder.

And the deal he's got isn't anywhere near that of an 'elite' QB. It's about standard for the league.
 
Yeah, but the difference between Cassel and a guy like Derek Anderson or Scott Mitchell or any other flavor of th year is Cassel was playing with, literally, one of the greatest offenses in the history of the NFL.

The same comments could be made about Tom Brady this year if he doesn't throw another 50 touchdowns. Regression towards the mean was expected, even with Brady.


That year was great, but if you think that wasn't a career year for a lot of guys, then you're nuts.
 
As was said on here many times around the time of the Cassel trade, why would the Pats have wanted a high first rounder that they probably wouldn't have been able to shift if they didn't like anyone in the spot?

You can ALWAYS shift a high first rounder. ALWAYS. Maybe not for the points on the chart, but a high first round is ALWAYS worth more than a high second rounder.

If that wasn't the case, teams would let their picks slide and pick later.
 
He could have gotten a pick maybe 15 spots higher if he waited a long time, but he couldn't have played in free agency. He took the best deal he got. The other teams sat with thumbs up their arses and didn't make legit offers until it was too late.

IIRC, Bellichick said he got better offers, but KC was the only team ready to move RIGHT NOW.
 
I'd rather have Chris Baker, Fred Taylor, Leigh Bodden, and Shawn Springs.... than a pick 15 spots higher and none of those guys.
 
I'd rather have Chris Baker, Fred Taylor, Leigh Bodden, and Shawn Springs.... than a pick 15 spots higher and none of those guys.

But since that wasn't the choice presented, who gives a damn?
 
I understood about the cap space, but really, if you honestly believe Cassel is that good of a QB they should have gotten more for him. It's not just me saying that, there were a whole lot of people scratching their heads after that trade.

The question's been asked and answered a number of times. It's OK if you don't like the answer, but it is what it is. The fact that other teams chose not to have their act together to make an offer at the start of free agency for Matt Cassel (along with the Patriots desire to make a splash in the first few days of free agency) says it all. Perhaps these other teams didn't really want Matt Cassel despite some indications to the contrary.
 
IIRC, Bellichick said he got better offers, but KC was the only team ready to move RIGHT NOW.

No, BB said there were no other (firm) offers.
 
Whitlock is the black Skip Bayless.
 
So it was Moss who Cassel owes his new contract to?

Funny, I seem to recall someone named Wes Welker being just as contributing more receptions and more receiving yards than Moss last year :rolleyes:

Moss was one of several who upped Cassel last year, Matt and Randy will be the first to state that.
 
So it was Moss who Cassel owes his new contract to?

Funny, I seem to recall someone named Wes Welker being just as contributing more receptions and more receiving yards than Moss last year :rolleyes:

Moss was one of several who upped Cassel last year, Matt and Randy will be the first to state that.

I'd say Cassel owes Bernard Pollard for his new contract.
 
I think Cassel totally deserved it. We forget how he was let down by the receivers in some games. Moss had a number of drops in or near the end zone. Of course, there was that Gaffney fumble in the colts game. Had he not dropped it, we would have been in the playoffs. What about that Jets game (even though we lost, let down by defense)? Amazing stuff. I can't remember a single play where I thought "I wish we had a different backup QB". Cassel did very well and would have done better if not for his team-mates letting HIM down.
 
The article isn't about whether Cassel is worth the contract he was given. Whitlock says time will tell-and he's right. We can all have our opinions but the contract will be justified (or not) by the way MC plays.

Whitlock's point is about Randy being one of the (if not the) greatest game changers in the history of pro football. Like him or not, if you consider the evidence he cites it's hard to argue with his logic.
 
Congrtats to Cassel's agent. He got KC to give up #34 and $28M for Cassel! Who woulda thunk it! KC gave up #34 for the priviledge of paying Cassel $10M a year for six years, and can get out early for ONLY $28M! WOW!
 
What is wrong with that idiot GM in Kansas City.

He really should have watched more game film of Cassel - otherwise he'd know that he just handed $60 million to a guy who only looks good on the surface because he played with Moss.

I mean he should REALLY do a little more homework in the future.
 
Cunningham was a playoff QB before he ever hooked up with Moss, Collins is still getting the job done in his late 30's, Brady had 3 Super Bowl wins before Moss showed up and has 0 with Moss, Pennington has been able to survive in the NFL without Moss and one could argue that Culpepper's best season as a Vikings QB was the season that Moss was injured and had his worst season as a Viking. Whitlock didn't actually flesh out those parts for his article.

Writing an article about Moss' greatness would have been fine. Making the claim that Cassel should thank Moss as if it was all about Randy is moronic. The Patriots were a top offense before Moss showed up having been in the top 10 every year under Brady except 2003 (and that worked out just fine), and Moss wasn't nearly as dependable for Cassel as he was the previous season for Brady. Moss is a tremendous player, but the article was terrible even as silly season filler, IMO.
 
Cunningham was out of football after the 1995 season and did not get his last great run until the 1998 after signing with the Vikings in 1997.

Brady never had more than 28 TDs before Randy arrived and it jumps up to 50 in ONE season. Do you honestly think that Brady even comes close to 50 without Moss? Welker only had 8 TDs in 1997.

And in 2004, Culpepper had 18 TDs in the first 5 games before Randy got hurt.
In the last 11 games, 21 TDs. Good but not god awesome before Randy got hurt.

And to throw 33 TDs in his first season as a starter is an accomplishment and a significant amount of that had to do with Randy Moss' 15 TDs in 2000.

Moss has been on 2 of the highest scoring offenses in NFL history.

The evidence is there, you are just too blind as a Moss hater to recognize it, Deus.

It is not 100% Randy, but I can unquestionably say that without Randy, Culpepper wouldn't have had the success he had from 2000-2004. Brady would not have come close to 50TDs, or even 40 TDs without Randy. Cunningham never would have experienced his comeback after being out of football in 1996.
 
Scout.com: Cassel Doesn?t Need Moss
If we really need evidence that Cassel is capable of succeeding without much contribution from Moss, all one has to do is glance at a few box scores. In six games last season, the receiver had three or fewer catches, yet New England’s record in those games was 4-2. Not only that, but Cassel’s quarterback rating in those six games was a healthy 92.06, with only one interception. Moss caught just two of Cassel’s seven touchdown passes in those six games.

Then there is the matter of just how efficient Cassel was at hooking up with targets other than Moss – namely Kevin Faulk and Wes Welker, New England’s first and third-leading receivers. Both were among the AFC leaders in catch percentage, with Faulk grabbing 58 of 74 passes thrown his way (third overall) and Welker hauling in 111 of 149 (seventh).

Curiously, Moss was not even among the top 20. He was, however, among the AFC leaders in passes not caught (56), coming in sixth.

It would seem that not only was Matt Cassel a more consistent football player a year ago compared to Randy Moss, he found other receivers at a higher rate of success, and the Patriots just happened to win football games along the way. It should also be pointed out that Cassel and Moss connected just twice over 30 yards in 2008, which is in direct contrast to other quarterbacks who relied so heavily upon the receiver for huge plays down the field. And yet the Patriots, fifth in the league in total offense, were no worse for it.
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Clearly, if anyone is in dire need of Randy Moss, it is not Matt Cassel, but rather those who seek to discredit the Chiefs’ new quarterback and his well-earned contract.
 
Jason Whitlock: Randy Moss 'might be the most influential football player of any lifetime' - Highlight Reel
Posted by Philip Zaroo | MLive.com July 15, 2009 10:44AM

I know this is supposed to be a blog about the Detroit Lions, but you'll have to indulge me today.
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Oh, it's the way he's padded the stats of every quarterback he's played with.

I won't argue that Moss has certainly helped in that aspect. And some quarterbacks – like Pennington and Culpepper – he's helped tremendously.

Other QBs probably weren't as influenced as Whitlock would have us believe.
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And Brady ... well, let's just say Brady cemented his status in the NFL well before Randy got on the glory wagon. (That said, the Pats were certainly one of the most exciting offenses EVER after Moss signed with New England.)
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None of that changes the fact that Moss, despite being one of the most talented players ever at his position, is a wide receiver. Which, as we all know in Detroit, is NOT one of the most influential positions on the field.
 
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