Wilfork speaks

If you are good/great player, it probably financially suck to be drafted by the Patriots where your are expected to play the length of your rookie contract. I feel bad for Wilfork after reading that Joe Staley got a contract extension after being in the league for two years.

Deus Irae said:

Obviously they care about it not being guaranteed. If they didn't, they wouldn't bring it up repeatedly.

And, for the record, I didn't cry about players holding out. I simply said that they should fine Wilfork for every mandatory day missed and not rescind the fine once things were resolved. The rest was follow up in response to others.

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I have no problem with the Patriots fining players that hold out and I would as well if I were them. The problem is that if you actually want to re-sign the player then it's a bad idea to no rescind them since they will be an employee going forward. If they don't plan on keeping him, like in the Branch case, I think the team should absolutely fine the player and not rescind them.

I think the fundamental difference between our opinions is that I have no problem with players or the team doing what's in their best interest. For some reason you don't think the players should do what is in their best interest though. If it wasn't in the player's best interest then there wouldn't be so many holdouts. It's pretty common now which is why I don't understand why people get so fired up about it. I'm sure you also get upset when college coaches sign extensions and then leave the next year for a better gig.

Maroney TD said:

I have no problem with the Patriots fining players that hold out and I would as well if I were them. The problem is that if you actually want to re-sign the player then it's a bad idea to no rescind them since they will be an employee going forward. If they don't plan on keeping him, like in the Branch case, I think the team should absolutely fine the player and not rescind them.

I think the fundamental difference between our opinions is that I have no problem with players or the team doing what's in their best interest. For some reason you don't think the players should do what is in their best interest though. If it wasn't in the player's best interest then there wouldn't be so many holdouts. It's pretty common now which is why I don't understand why people get so fired up about it. I'm sure you also get upset when college coaches sign extensions and then leave the next year for a better gig.

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No, the fundamental difference is that I have a problem with people who violate their contracts and you don't. Once a player does that, I lose all respect for him. They are breaking their word over something as stupid as money.

And, please, don't give me that "money's not stupid" argument. We're talking about people who're going to be comfortable enough to live the rest of their lives on what they'll make and never have to work again if they are frugal, whether or not the holdout is successful. Breaking your word because you're starving or in physical danger is one thing, and is understandable even if it's not honorable. Breaking it so you can buy that second mansion is another matter entirely.

Deus Irae said:

No, the fundamental difference is that I have a problem with people who violate their contracts and you don't. Once a player does that, I lose all respect for him. They are breaking their word over something as stupid as money.

And, please, don't give me that "money's not stupid" argument. We're talking about people who're going to be comfortable enough to live the rest of their lives on what they'll make and never have to work again if they are frugal, whether or not the holdout is successful. Breaking your word because you're starving or in physical danger is one thing, and is understandable even if it's not honorable. Breaking it so you can buy that second mansion is another matter entirely.

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I lose respect for players when they miss games, not OTAs. Obviously most of these guys are set for life but the average career in the NFL is very short which is why I have no problem with players trying to get all they can within that short window.

Just because they make a lot of money doesn't mean they shouldn't try to maximize their earnings like almost every other person does. Their career can end at any time and the NFL is a business. There is no loyalty towards players so there is no reason to think they should be loyal to teams. Yes they signed contracts but Wilfork is underpaid and the CBA allows for players to hold out while allowing teams to fine them. Each side is trying to do what is best for themselves as they should.

You also didn't answer the question if you feel the same way about college coaches that sign contracts and then leave before they fulfill them.

Maroney TD said:

I lose respect for players when they miss games, not OTAs. Obviously most of these guys are set for life but the average career in the NFL is very short which is why I have no problem with players trying to get all they can within that short window.

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Mandatory = mandatory

Maroney TD said:

Just because they make a lot of money doesn't mean they shouldn't try to maximize their earnings like almost every other person does. Their career can end at any time and the NFL is a business. There is no loyalty towards players so there is no reason to think they should be loyal to teams. Yes they signed contracts but Wilfork is underpaid and the CBA allows for players to hold out while allowing teams to fine them. Each side is trying to do what is best for themselves as they should.

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Wilfork is not underpaid. There's not a single player in the NFL who's underpaid, EXCEPT WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THE VERY CBA THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT POTENTIALLY BEING BROKEN, AND IN COMPARISON TO OTHER PLAYERS WHO ARE ALSO NOT UNDERPAID. I

Maroney TD said:

You also didn't answer the question if you feel the same way about college coaches that sign contracts and then leave before they fulfill them.

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Because, obviously, the contracts aren't of the same nature. It's a red herring that you threw out. If schools want to prevent coaches from leaving, they can write that into the contract. In fact, more and more of them are putting 'escape clause' material in, which forces the coach to buy out his contract.

Reiss' article sounded more positive and it sounds like he's letting his agent deal with it but I'd feel better if Big Vince just zipped it.

Here's the thing- he's the best NT in the league and with more teams dabbling in the 3-4 JMO but there's a market for Big Vince; if we don't pay him someone else will.

I hope it doesn't come to that and I hope he doesn't talk with the media too much more either.

Deus Irae said:

Mandatory = mandatory



Wilfork is not underpaid. There's not a single player in the NFL who's underpaid, EXCEPT WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THE VERY CBA THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT POTENTIALLY BEING BROKEN, AND IN COMPARISON TO OTHER PLAYERS WHO ARE ALSO NOT UNDERPAID. I


Because, obviously, the contracts aren't of the same nature. It's a red herring that you threw out. If schools want to prevent coaches from leaving, they can write that into the contract. In fact, more and more of them are putting 'escape clause' material in, which forces the coach to buy out his contract.

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:ugh: Let me guess...Bitter your not in the NFL?

In a previous post you were talking about money...1) Plenty of former NFL players are now broke and 2) It also about respect, If you and a coworker do the same job but your coworker is paid more than you and you do your job just as well you too would be pissed.

TriplecHamp said:

:ugh: Let me guess...Bitter your not in the NFL?

In a previous post you were talking about money...1) Plenty of former NFL players are now broke and 2) It also about respect, If you and a coworker do the same job but your coworker is paid more than you and you do your job just as well you too would be pissed.

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1.) Former NFL players have nothing to do with current players refusing to fulfill contractual obligations.

2.) It's not about respect. If it were about respect, they would, oh, you know.... respect the contract.

3.) No, I'm not bitter that I'm not in the NFL. I never had any interest in playing professional football. I also don't begrudge them the money. I begrudge them the contract violation. There's a difference.

Leave No Doubt said:

Reiss' article sounded more positive and it sounds like he's letting his agent deal with it but I'd feel better if Big Vince just zipped it.

Here's the thing- he's the best NT in the league and with more teams dabbling in the 3-4 JMO but there's a market for Big Vince; if we don't pay him someone else will.

I hope it doesn't come to that and I hope he doesn't talk with the media too much more either.

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Prominent Nose Tackles:

Vince Wilfork
Haloti Ngata
Jamal Williams
Casey Hampton
Kris Jenkins
Jason Ferguson
Shaun Rogers

Personally, I love watching Ngata play, and wish he was a Patriot. I'd say that, factoring in both age and talent, he and Wilfork are at the top.

Deus Irae said:

1.) Former NFL players have nothing to do with current players refusing to fulfill contractual obligations.

2.) It's not about respect. If it were about respect, they would, oh, you know.... respect the contract.

3.) No, I'm not bitter that I'm not in the NFL. I never had any interest in playing professional football. I also don't begrudge them the money. I begrudge them the contract violation. There's a difference.

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And, please, don't give me that "money's not stupid" argument. We're talking about people who're going to be comfortable enough to live the rest of their lives on what they'll make and never have to work again

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Travis Henry will be broke soon...Yeah he made some mistakes but he will still be in trouble soon and he will be looking for work soon.

Screw respecting a contract...As far as Wilfork is concerned he should hold out until he is paid like a top NT should be. He has exceeded what he is earning, He Is Underpaid and It is about respect, I doubt he asking for Haynesworth money but if the team wants to continue to take advantage of him than so be it, Vince will hold out and as long as he can pay the fine I dont think he will care. Your making the Patriots organization as the victims in this case and they are not.

Deus Irae said:

Mandatory = mandatory

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OTA's are not mandatory so I have no idea what you're talking about.

Wilfork is not underpaid. There's not a single player in the NFL who's underpaid, EXCEPT WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THE VERY CBA THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT POTENTIALLY BEING BROKEN, AND IN COMPARISON TO OTHER PLAYERS WHO ARE ALSO NOT UNDERPAID. I

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Wilfork is underpaid in regards to his profession, NFL player. He's not underpaid as a human being but NFL players are the product which generates the money for the NFL so they should have a large share of the revenue. This would be a great argument to use against other professions such as doctors or CEO's though. Just tell them that they make more than the average person even if they make less than the average person in their profession. The CBA isn't being broken, he's allowed to hold out if he wants to. The CBA does not force any player to actually play.