So who exactly did the BB regime ever develop slowly and successfully?

DaBruinz · Apr 28, 2009

efin98 said:
Burned on about two big plays per game, I believe at least three TDs with one being a major one that took the team out of the game. Those are not examples. Please go back and give us some true examples. That would mean giving the GAMES and the PLAYS that it happened on. And what was the result of the play.

I believe it Mike Reiss's Pieces blog, I believe he was surprised he made the cut last year...

Reiss has all his stuff archived. How about you go and find the links you are referring to. The only player who made the team that Reiss was surprised about was Matt Cassel if I remember correctly.

They cut guys last year with a thin depth at CB and LB. If he isn't playing up to their standards then he won't be there depth problems or not.

Who did they cut last year with thin depth at CB and LB other than Fernando Bryant?

Actually, yes I do think they would have signed him to that much of a deal if they were possibly going to cut him in the future if he didn't work out for them. If it works out that he isn't performing to their standards they will pay whatever guaranteed to him and he will be gone, and even then it's probably not much at all.

I'll eat my hat if I'm wrong about him.

You better start eating because the Patriots don't throw away $3 million in bonus cash just to cut a guy. In fact, you won't find a single example of a player on the Patriots getting a new contract and being cut the same year that he got that contract. It's bad business. [

We'll be wating for your answers

belichickaholic · Apr 28, 2009

Bobby Hamilton, Anthony Pleasant, Rick Lyle, Joe Andruzzi, Tom Ashworh, Steven Neal, Grant Williams, David Givens, Jabbar Gaffney. Maybe it's not as overblown as you think.

efin98 · Apr 28, 2009

DaBruinz said:
Wright earned his playing time by being outstanding on Special teams. Not because of injuries. Wright has been a steady presence on 3rd down over the last 2 years.

His playing time beyond third down shot up, especially when Wilfork and Warren were hurt.

TBC - A complete failure in San Fran.

Still got a big contract to go there before he was a failure, would not have gotten it if not for the Patriots system.

Heath Evans is one of the best blocking FBs in the league? You must be watching a different time line because Evans has been nothing more than above average as a lead blocker. Especially when compared to guys like Tony Richardson and Lorenzo Neal.

I give. Shoot down all I have to say.
I give, I concede defeat. I know when I'm beat. I give. :stars2:

Bostonian1962 · Apr 28, 2009

Fencer said:
BB has a reputation for bringing players along slowly and making eventual stars of them. When I look for examples of that, however, the list I come up with is basically:

Tom Brady

Matt Cassel

Asante Samuel

David Givens (not a big star, but clearly a great value)

Stephen Neal (ditto)

Who else, if anybody, am I missing? Seymour, Warren, Wilfork, Mayo, Light, Mankins, Koppen, and others all played significant roles their first seasons. Others -- especially lots of OL and LBs -- did well on STs or as reserves, but hardly became stars.

Is this story perhaps a bit exaggerated?

Follow-up question: Why are you differentiating between the players he "brought along slowly", and those that attained success more quickly? That's the part of your premise that puzzles me. Is he a better coach if he brings them along more slowly?????

Ice Cold Bruschi · Apr 28, 2009

Merriweather has been coming along slowly but surely

Patjew · Apr 28, 2009

Bostonian1962 said:
Follow-up question: Why are you differentiating between the players he "brought along slowly", and those that attained success more quickly? That's the part of your premise that puzzles me. Is he a better coach if he brings them along more slowly?????

Does BB even have that reputation of bringing players along slowly? I've heard alot of descriptions of BB, good and bad, but I don't recall that one.

I think his reputation mainly is getting the most one possibly could out of a player. I never hear this qualified as long term or short term.

Sicilian · Apr 28, 2009

Patjew said:
Does BB even have that reputation of bringing players along slowly? I've heard alot of descriptions of BB, good and bad, but I don't recall that one.

I think his reputation mainly is getting the most one possibly could out of a player. I never hear this qualified as long term or short term.

That was my first thought too. I always felt BB's reputation was for taking scrap heap players (or at least players that were wallowing in bad situations or considering past their prime) and turning them into stars or at least solid contributors. Vrabel, Dillon, Moss, Welker, Gaffney, etc.

I don't think the timing of the development was ever part of his mystique, just the ever present, "Where did THIS guy come from?" moments.

efin98 · Apr 28, 2009

Patjew said:
Does BB even have that reputation of bringing players along slowly? I've heard alot of descriptions of BB, good and bad, but I don't recall that one.

I think his reputation mainly is getting the most one possibly could out of a player. I never hear this qualified as long term or short term.

I've always thought with him is he gives you three years and if you aren't contributing in a major way on special teams or as a starter then you aren't going to stay...but that only applies to guys he drafts and not guys who are veterans brought in from outside the team.

Deus Irae · Apr 28, 2009

BB isn't about taking players and turning quality guys into stars as much as his tenure has been about turning low end guys into NFL quality guys.

TBC
Woods
O-lineman after O-lineman
Givens
Gay
Keegs' binkie

etc...

Synovia · Apr 28, 2009

TheGodInAGreyHoodie said:
We can add a UDFA WR who didn't do much down in Mia and went to the prowbowl this year. Wes Welker.

Didn't do much? HE pretty much led every category down there... the offense stunk, but he was clearly the best guy there. They got cheap, and got burned.

Synovia · Apr 28, 2009

DaBruinz said:
You must be watching a different time line because Evans has been nothing more than above average as a lead blocker. Especially when compared to guys like Tony Richardson and Lorenzo Neal.

"Nothing more than above average"??

That means hes better than most of the league, which means hes one of the best.

A third of the league is below average. A third is about average. A third is above average.

DaBruinz · Apr 28, 2009

Synovia said:
"Nothing more than above average"??

That means hes better than most of the league, which means hes one of the best.

A third of the league is below average. A third is about average. A third is above average.

Sorry, Synovia, it doesn't mean that he's better than most in the league. Being an above average blocker has nothing with the number of players at FB. It has to do with the QUALITY of the blocking. Being above average in quality doesn't mean that you are amongst the best.

Also, this idea that, somehow the league is broken down perfectly into below average, average, and above average is pretty funny.

Ring 6 · Apr 28, 2009

Fencer said:
BB has a reputation for bringing players along slowly and making eventual stars of them. When I look for examples of that, however, the list I come up with is basically:

Tom Brady

Matt Cassel

Asante Samuel

David Givens (not a big star, but clearly a great value)

Stephen Neal (ditto)

Who else, if anybody, am I missing? Seymour, Warren, Wilfork, Mayo, Light, Mankins, Koppen, and others all played significant roles their first seasons. Others -- especially lots of OL and LBs -- did well on STs or as reserves, but hardly became stars.

Is this story perhaps a bit exaggerated?

I have never heard of that reputation before. I don't know why anyone would say that. He is actually quite the opposite expecting that everyone who is on the team steps in and plays as well as the guy in front of them when they are needed.

Synovia · Apr 28, 2009

DaBruinz said:
Sorry, Synovia, it doesn't mean that he's better than most in the league. Being an above average blocker has nothing with the number of players at FB. It has to do with the QUALITY of the blocking. Being above average in quality doesn't mean that you are amongst the best.

Also, this idea that, somehow the league is broken down perfectly into below average, average, and above average is pretty funny.

The average is the middle. Being above average means you are better than most. The word does not mean what you think it does.

"Being an above average blocker has nothing with the number of players at FB."

Yeah, it does. We don't compare the blocking skills of a FB to those of a Tackle.

tanked_as_usual · Apr 28, 2009

jarvis green, TBC, neal

Deus Irae · Apr 28, 2009

Synovia said:
The average is the middle. Being above average means you are better than most. The word does not mean what you think it does.

"Being an above average blocker has nothing with the number of players at FB."

Yeah, it does. We don't compare the blocking skills of a FB to those of a Tackle.

Actually, when people refer to 'average' regarding players or skills, they generally are just lumping them in with the large pool of mediocrities as opposed to trying to make a complete slotting system. You're playing semantics, and you must know that.

Synovia · Apr 28, 2009

Deus Irae said:
Actually, when people refer to 'average' regarding players or skills, they generally are just lumping them in with the large pool of mediocrities as opposed to trying to make a complete slotting system. You're playing semantics, and you must know that.

No, I'm not.

If they're saying "average" and meaning "replaceable" they're not using the word correctly. If you want to have a discussion about the value of players, you need to accurately describe those players.

Most teams only carry one fullback, so an above average fullback, is at worst, in the top 16 fullbacks in the league.

DaBruinz · Apr 28, 2009

Synovia said:
The average is the middle. Being above average means you are better than most. The word does not mean what you think it does.

*ROFLMAO* The word AVERAGE means exactly what I think it does. In fact, considering I use the word AVERAGE in terms of quality on an almost daily basis, I have a much better grasp of the word.

Synovia said:
"Being an above average blocker has nothing with the number of players at FB."

Yeah, it does. We don't compare the blocking skills of a FB to those of a Tackle.

No, it doesn't. It has to do with the quality of the blocking. In a perfect world, things might be spread equally, but the reality is that its not.

Also, the person I responded to claimed that Evans was a "great blocker" and he's not. If you can't understand that, then you need to just take yourself out of the conversation.

Synovia · Apr 28, 2009

DaBruinz said:
No, it doesn't. It has to do with the quality of the blocking. In a perfect world, things might be spread equally, but the reality is that its not.

Also, the person I responded to claimed that Evans was a "great blocker" and he's not. If you can't understand that, then you need to just take yourself out of the conversation.

When you say a FB is an above average blocker, you are saying he blocks better than the average blocking fullback. Theres no other way to interpret it.

Fencer · Apr 28, 2009

Mainefan said:
The question is, do players generally get better when they come to the Patriots? That includes draftees, UFAs, trades, and free agents.

Yes, that's another interesting question, separate from the one I asked.

Maybe you should start a thread about it!

So who exactly did the BB regime ever develop slowly and successfully?

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