Replacing Hobbs

Sicilian · Apr 27, 2009

So, I'm sure this was brought up in the Hobbs thread at some point, but I thought it was an important enough issue to hold it's own.

I'm not talking about replacing Hobbs as a CB. Between our two FA additions, two second year draftees, and the new kid Butler, I think we'll be just fine there. I'm talking about Hobbs as a kick returner.

There are a few options I see as kick returners for this team this year:

1) Laurence Maroney - With the addition of Fred Taylor, it's possible we might see a re-emergence of Maroney as a kickoff specialist. Let Taylor-Morris pound it in the running game, Faulk handle third down, and let Maroney chip in with about 10 carries a game and around 30 yards per return (which is what he did when he was healthy).

2) Matt Slater - He's got the straight line speed for sure, but didn't show great vision or cuts in the return game last year. Mix that with his fumbles, and this might be a long shot. If he can straighten out a couple issues though, he could be pretty dynamic.

3) Brandon Tate - New draftee, supposedly is a good kick returner I thought? Don't know much about him personally though.

What does everyone think? Who becomes our regular kick returner this year now that Hobbs is out of the picture.

DaBruinz · Apr 27, 2009

Sicilian said:
So, I'm sure this was brought up in the Hobbs thread at some point, but I thought it was an important enough issue to hold it's own.

I'm not talking about replacing Hobbs as a CB. Between our two FA additions, two second year draftees, and the new kid Butler, I think we'll be just fine there. I'm talking about Hobbs as a kick returner.

There are a few options I see as kick returners for this team this year:

1) Laurence Maroney - With the addition of Fred Taylor, it's possible we might see a re-emergence of Maroney as a kickoff specialist. Let Taylor-Morris pound it in the running game, Faulk handle third down, and let Maroney chip in with about 10 carries a game and around 30 yards per return (which is what he did when he was healthy).

2) Matt Slater - He's got the straight line speed for sure, but didn't show great vision or cuts in the return game last year. Mix that with his fumbles, and this might be a long shot. If he can straighten out a couple issues though, he could be pretty dynamic.

3) Brandon Tate - New draftee, supposedly is a good kick returner I thought? Don't know much about him personally though.

What does everyone think? Who becomes our regular kick returner this year now that Hobbs is out of the picture.

Tate suffered a ACL/MCL injury last October. He will probably start the season on the "PUP" list or the IR outright.

Other options for kick returner include Welker, Faulk, Wheatley, Wilhite, and Butler. Welker and Faulk have experience at the Pro Level. Wheatley, Wilhite and Butler all were kick returners in college.

BelichickFan · Apr 27, 2009

I would expect Edelman to at least get a look on returns also.

Synovia · Apr 27, 2009

Sicilian said:
2) Matt Slater - He's got the straight line speed for sure, but didn't show great vision or cuts in the return game last year. Mix that with his fumbles, and this might be a long shot. If he can straighten out a couple issues though, he could be pretty dynamic.

THe kid muffed two kicks as a rookie. Big deal.

He's been too good as a blocker in the return game to have him return a ton of kicks.

JoeShmoe · Apr 27, 2009

I dont want Welker returning Kicks ...he's too valuable

When Tate's fit he could be the best KR in the game ...

I would give it to Maroney ... might give him some confidence for a start, however I think they give it to Slater

Sicilian · Apr 27, 2009

Synovia said:
THe kid muffed two kicks as a rookie. Big deal.

He's been too good as a blocker in the return game to have him return a ton of kicks.

I agree, rookie issues are often overblown. But it wasn't just that he muffed a couple of kicks, it was he muffed a couple of kicks on a very limited number of opportunities. If he cleans that up, I think he's a possibility, if not, I don't see them giving him too many more chances to prove he's fixed it is all I'm saying.

mgteich · Apr 27, 2009

Maroney has been my nominee for months.

Reaper · Apr 27, 2009

It will probably just be welker and faulk at the position for the kick returner, as for maroney he will probably be healthy and step it up this season as our RB.

Sicilian · Apr 27, 2009

Reaper said:
It will probably just be welker and faulk at the position for the kick returner, as for maroney he will probably be healthy and step it up this season as our RB.

Welker and Faulk are much more suited to punt returning than kickoffs. They both have good hands and quick, shifty moves, but not the breakaway speed you like out of kickoff returners, IMO.

DaBruinz · Apr 27, 2009

BelichickFan said:
I would expect Edelman to at least get a look on returns also.

Here are the numbers:

Edelman - 40: 4.52 Shuttle: 3.92 3 Cone: 6.62 10 yard: 1.52
Wheatley - 40: 4.37 Shuttle: 4.20 3 Cone: 6.74 10 yard: 1.48
Wilhite - 40: 4.38 Shuttle: 4.41 3 Cone: 7.17 10 yard: 1.43
Tate *- 40: 4.52 Shuttle: 4.12 3 Cone: 7.25 10 yard: 1.60

Hobbs - 40: 4.45 Shuttle: 4.07 3 Cone: 6.80 10 yard: 1.55

* = Tate's times were taken from his agility test conducted prior to the 2008 season.

Tate is the more accomplished kick returner and punt returner from College. Wilhite did not return kicks in college. Wheatley was limited in his kick return duties. Edelman, of course, was a QB, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him tested for punt return duties.

spacecrime · Apr 27, 2009

Sicilian said:
I agree, rookie issues are often overblown.

Yep, see below for an excellent example

Sicilian said:
But it wasn't just that he muffed a couple of kicks, it was he muffed a couple of kicks on a very limited number of opportunities.

Sorry, but muffing two kicks in not an indictment of a rookie.

AV had some horrible misses as a rookie.

It's not talent, it's rookie nerves.

Take a chill pill and wait for September.

DarrylS · Apr 27, 2009

I wonder if along with the new patty cake, no wedge rule, instituted this year if the kicking game will change significantly and this position will be less important... can see more touchbacks.

Deus Irae · Apr 27, 2009

Pretty much Anyone but Maroney is fine with me. Hell, let them have Mankins do it for all I care. Just not Maroney. Let the kid focus on running back instead of having to get pummeled doing something else. The last thing I want to see is this guy getting hurt during a return.

Synovia · Apr 27, 2009

Sicilian said:
Welker and Faulk are much more suited to punt returning than kickoffs. They both have good hands and quick, shifty moves, but not the breakaway speed you like out of kickoff returners, IMO.

Maroney doesn't have the "breakaway speed" like typical returners, but had the best kick return average in the league while he was doing it.

Sicilian · Apr 27, 2009

spacecrime said:
Yep, see below for an excellent example

Sorry, but muffing two kicks in not an indictment of a rookie.

AV had some horrible misses as a rookie.

It's not talent, it's rookie nerves.

Take a chill pill and wait for September.

Whoa, whoa... I'm not saying he won't be good. You're probably right, rookie nerves and what not. All I'm saying is (and you can't possibly disagree on this point) that if those gaffs continue into this year (which they might), Slater will NOT be returning kicks by year's end.

Sicilian · Apr 27, 2009

Synovia said:
Maroney doesn't have the "breakaway speed" like typical returners, but had the best kick return average in the league while he was doing it.

No, but moreso than Faulk or Welker IMO. He has also shown the ability to explode when in open space, which I think is conducive to kickoff returns. I agree he'll probably never be a TD return guy, but we'd consistently start around the 35 or 40. With this offense that would be just fine.

Gumby · Apr 27, 2009

I thought Chung was also a returner for Oregon. Or was that just KO?

but he is another option out there. I think returner this year is the position BB jsut throws everything at the wall and see who sticks. Normally though he wants only 100% sure hands on the return guy. (He even yanked Troy B when he dropped one.) So you have to think Butler or Chung as rookies have very low odds of getting the job.

Hercules Rockefeller · Apr 27, 2009

Welker is not really suited to the kick return spot in my opinion. He is more of a shifty type, which is why he's effective on punt return; he's able to make one or two quick moves to pick up 10-20 yards. Kick return candidates abound on this team so there is no need to have Welker operate outside of his normal comfort zone or risk injury--he's too valuable in the slot. Between Slater, Maroney, Edelman, Wheatley, Butler, not to mention Tate (who if healthy would have to be the favorite)...I think they'll be fine. I will miss Hobbs kick return skills though. He went right after it, really attacking the hole. Probably will not be as effective at it without the wedge blocking though, that could be one of the reasons why he was deemed expendable.

Synovia · Apr 27, 2009

Sicilian said:
No, but moreso than Faulk or Welker IMO. He has also shown the ability to explode when in open space, which I think is conducive to kickoff returns. I agree he'll probably never be a TD return guy, but we'd consistently start around the 35 or 40. With this offense that would be just fine.

Consistently starting at the 35 or 40 is worth a whole lot more than the occasional TD.

VJCPatriot · Apr 27, 2009

Tate, Edelman, Wheatley, Maroney, Butler or all KR candidtates. PR is a little trickier. There are some guys who excel at returning punts that aren't as good at returning kicks and vice versa.

Welker is a pretty good PR, but seeing as how we expect him to catch 100 balls per season, perhaps we should just let him concentrate his energy on the offensive side of his game? Slater is too valuable as a gunner to use as a returner, besides we saw the results, I don't expect him to be used in that capacity again.

Deus Irae said:
Pretty much Anyone but Maroney is fine with me. Hell, let them have Mankins do it for all I care. Just not Maroney. Let the kid focus on running back instead of having to get pummeled doing something else. The last thing I want to see is this guy getting hurt during a return.

Why are we coddling Maroney unless ... you really do believe he's made out of glass?

If he can contribute on special teams, that's what he should do. There won't be a lot of carries left over for Maroney anyways as long as the top 3 of Taylor, Morris, and Faulk stay healthy.

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