What we learned from Day 1...

DaBruinz said:

Adding Butler tells me that Springs will start the season as the starting CB opposite Hobbs, but that there will be an all out war between Springs, Butler, Wilhite, Wheatley and Hobbs for the starting CB spots. I think that Springs will end up spending more time at safety in the long run.

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Throw in Leigh Bodden as well and our DB corps is DEEP.

Tyler.Durden said:

Throw in Leigh Bodden as well and our DB corps is DEEP.

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That has seemed true in a number of other years as well ...

Ochmed Jones said:

1.) BB does not need Pioli to move up around the draft board.

2.) BB could not get a 2010 1st rounder from anybody. That sucks.

3.) Mangini got raped by the Jets.

4.) Our secondary is very crowded.

5.) Mel Diaper Jr. is absolutely horrible and is completely clueless about the Belichick/Parcells tree.

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Could you explain why you believe that Mangini got taken on that deal? Especially when you take into consideration the money that the Browns saved by moving down the way they did.

The_Riddler said:

We learned that we'll probably rue the day that we let both Rey M and James The Little Animal slip through our finger tips, "twice"...........

We learned that BB in classic BB fashion gives us his classic R1 and R2 TV smashing reach pick for a guy that was described by some scouting services as a solid FA post draft pick up. I'm still scratching my head on this one with Beatty on the board at that point.

Paul Kruger is picked right before Vollmer, I'm just wondering if Kruger was truly our eye-pick at that point and when Baltimore f'd that up for us BB then reached for this no-name tackle. I'm wonderin............Yes, I'm still scratching my head for this friend of a friend of a friend that BB knew from UOH who happened to mention a looksie at Mr. Vollmer, a second round pick with no ESPN draft tape...............um YIKES !!!!!!!!!!!

Yet that oooopsie is definately countered with the Chung and Butler picks, our secondary is set for a long, long time............Chung and Meriweather could be the next Atwater and Dennis Smith, what a tandem they are going to be.

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What "draft services" had Vollmer as a UDFA? I ask because the Huddle Report has him as a top 150 prospect and so does NFLDraftScout.com.

Vollmer was also on my list of players that I felt the Patriots might look at that I mentioned in my Draft Previews.

JoeShmoe said:

What I learnt from day one

1. BB (like Mayock) thought this was a poor draft
2. The NEP will 80% of the time trade down
3. Were gonna run more 4-3 this year
4. Mock drafts are useless

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BB never said this was a poor draft and I don't believe that he felt that. Mayock wasn't saying that this was a poor draft prior to today. BB said that this draft was murky as to who would go where once you got past 16 and through 75 or so. But that isn't the same thing as it being a poor draft.

I also disagree about the 80% trade down thing. In fact, they also traded up this year. And left 3 of their picks where they were.

DaBruinz said:

What "draft services" had Vollmer as a UDFA? I ask because the Huddle Report has him as a top 150 prospect and so does NFLDraftScout.com.

Vollmer was also on my list of players that I felt the Patriots might look at that I mentioned in my Draft Previews.

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Prior to the East/West Shrine game, many scouts had him rated as a 6th round tackle or projected FA. He played very well in that game and that boosted him, but do you honestly feel that we couldn't have landed in with our last 3rd round pick ? Why take him where we did when we could dealt up for a Barwin or a Max Unger or even stayed where we were and got the much higher rated Beatty ?

What we learned:

1) Safety was the focus for the draft and ability to run, hit and tackle was the criteria.

2) Seeing Butler still on the board at #40 was a pleasant surprise. The Pats would certainly have gotten Brace at #41 without much problem, but it is likely Butler would have been off the board by #47 (Raiders #40, Bills #42 and Dolphins #44 all would have interest). So the trade with the Raiders was to get a slipping Butler in addition to a target player in Brace.

3) The Pats are comfortable with the tackles they have starting now. The depth behind them? Not so much. Vollmer has to project to the swing tackle job sooner rather than later to justify a 2nd round pick. With that in mind, the Vollmer pick seems like less of a reach. As a gameday active, he can obviously contribute on the FG defense and as a goal line TE. That means he can provide some value as his raw skills (and high upside) get refined for a year or two.

4) There will be LBs taken tomorrow. The Pats have 3 picks they have to take plus 4 others...and only a couple viable positions to draft into (developmental QB, WR, OG, DE, LB). They could draft a TE as injury insurance but I can't see how they keep 4 TE on this roster. Even DE may be a stretch but I'm not sure Jarvis has a secure job at this point.

5) Trading out of #23 wasn't a big surprise...but collecting 2009 picks instead of 2010 picks surprised me. I love the value in the 2nd/3rd rounds in this draft, but 8 picks seems like a bit much. Flipping #23 into a 1st rounder next year would have been sweet, but maybe there were no takers.

Gosselin had him at 76. CBS Sports (NFLDraftScouts) has him at 98.

DaBruinz said:

What "draft services" had Vollmer as a UDFA? I ask because the Huddle Report has him as a top 150 prospect and so does NFLDraftScout.com.

Vollmer was also on my list of players that I felt the Patriots might look at that I mentioned in my Draft Previews.

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Excellent post there Metaphors, the one postion you left our there that I feel we need to address at some stage but probably very late is FB. Other than that I agree with you on pretty much everything you said.

The_Riddler said:

Prior to the East/West Shrine game, many scouts had him rated as a 6th round tackle or projected FA. He played very well in that game and that boosted him, but do you honestly feel that we couldn't have landed in with our last 3rd round pick ? Why take him where we did when we could dealt up for a Barwin or a Max Unger or even stayed where we were and got the much higher rated Beatty ?

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Oooooh, ooooh, oooh...pick me!!!

Maybe Belichick didn't want Barwin, Unger or Beatty. He had the ammo to get any or all of them if he wanted. He just didn't want them. Of all the drafts I've followed, I can say with certainty that Belichick didn't see a guy come off the board and say "Damn, we sure missed out on him!"

Doesn't mean that Belichick didn't see potential Pats selections get taken by other teams. Just saying that Belichick got the players he really wanted...including a trade-up to get a sliding Butler.

eagle eye said:

Excellent post there Metaphors, the one postion you left our there that I feel we need to address at some stage but probably very late is FB. Other than that I agree with you on pretty much everything you said.

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I thought about FB and to be fair, I really should have included FB in my list. That is more my bias against the position than an objective analysis of day 2 targets.

Metaphors said:

I thought about FB and to be fair, I really should have included FB in my list. That is more my bias against the position than an objective analysis of day 2 targets.

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Hardly a big oversight. The FB position is dead. I could see an H-Back type drafted in later rounds as a Garrett Mills type project though. Another alternative is to draft a really good pass catching RB like Jennings in the 3rd and see how he handles an H-back Gash/Turner/Cooley type of role. He's still out there.

mayoclinic said:

3. BB seems comfortable with our current group of OLBs - he didn't prioritize the position as much as I thought he would.

4. BB seems comfortable with our situation at DE and didn't make it a priority.

6. BB seems comfortable with the OL as it is for 2009.

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I think I see a pattern here

The_Riddler said:

Prior to the East/West Shrine game, many scouts had him rated as a 6th round tackle or projected FA. He played very well in that game and that boosted him, but do you honestly feel that we couldn't have landed in with our last 3rd round pick ? Why take him where we did when we could dealt up for a Barwin or a Max Unger or even stayed where we were and got the much higher rated Beatty ?

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Well, first off, you've fallen into the trap the many people do when they rate the Patriots draft. The Draft ratings by these services mean NOTHING to the Patriots. They are a general guide at best.

What I feel doesn't matter. Its what the Patriots feel. And clearly they fealt that Vollmer was worth taking at that point.

Now as for the trading up part. There are a few things you seem to have forgotten. The first is that there needs to be someone to trade with. Second, the deal had to be right for the Patriots. If they couldn't find an offer they liked, then why should they trade up? Whether its for Unger, Barwin or anyone else.

As for Beatty, clearly the Pats didn't feel about him the way you did. Clearly they fealt that Vollmer was the better long term prospect. Especially since they can sit him as the 4th OT and use LaVoir as the swing tackle on game days.

Also, Vollmer didn't jump 3 rounds because of the East/West Shrine game. You also have to remember that many of those guides don't get updated before they are published. As for the Online ones, Vollmer, though he did improve, only went up 1 round on NFLDraftScout. Not sure about Huddle Report.

DaBruinz said:

Well, first off, you've fallen into the trap the many people do when they rate the Patriots draft. The Draft ratings by these services mean NOTHING to the Patriots. They are a general guide at best.

What I feel doesn't matter. Its what the Patriots feel. And clearly they fealt that Vollmer was worth taking at that point.

Now as for the trading up part. There are a few things you seem to have forgotten. The first is that there needs to be someone to trade with. Second, the deal had to be right for the Patriots. If they couldn't find an offer they liked, then why should they trade up? Whether its for Unger, Barwin or anyone else.

As for Beatty, clearly the Pats didn't feel about him the way you did. Clearly they fealt that Vollmer was the better long term prospect. Especially since they can sit him as the 4th OT and use LaVoir as the swing tackle on game days.

Also, Vollmer didn't jump 3 rounds because of the East/West Shrine game. You also have to remember that many of those guides don't get updated before they are published. As for the Online ones, Vollmer, though he did improve, only went up 1 round on NFLDraftScout. Not sure about Huddle Report.

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good points. BB and company aren't new to the draft game either and must have thought that there was a team that might have taken vollmer if they waited to the later rounds. I remember that when Mankins was drafted, many draft gurus said that he could be had in later rounds but then it was discovered later that S.F. or some team right after the Pats were also interested in him. If there is even a remote threat of somebody getting the guy you want, it makes sense to grab him even if some teams and people consider it a reach if you really like the player and think he can contribute to your team and don't want to risk another team getting that player.

Vollmer-

I am not worried about him being taken too early. If you read his interview - Dante S. did his workout at Houston. He is the one who told BB take him in this round.

DaBruinz said:

You're just figuring this out???



Its unlikely that Brace would have been there at 47. Why? Because you have the Dolphins and Texans between 40 and 47. Both would have been drooling over the idea of adding Brace. Next, add in the Broncos who are looking for a NT and could have been looking to trade up ahead of 47.




The talks may not be dead. However, it will only be a pick for next year if Peppers is traded. Their adding Hood will help lessen the need to keep Peppers.



One way or the other, I agree.



Adding Butler tells me that Springs will start the season as the starting CB opposite Hobbs, but that there will be an all out war between Springs, Butler, Wilhite, Wheatley and Hobbs for the starting CB spots. I think that Springs will end up spending more time at safety in the long run.



I think you mean Day 2 or 3rd round. I look for the Pats to add an ILB, OLB, OG/C, WR, at the very least. I'd also like to see them make a trade into 2010 with a couple of their picks.

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Your right , the cpu is running a little slow..

I also think that we should all learn by now..

As Long as Bill Belichick coaches here, and Tickle me Pete Caroll is out west at usc.. We will never ever ever ever draft a player no higher than the 7th round pick from usc.. So anybody that puts a usc player in these stupid mock drafts, will never happen..

I agree with a LOT that has been on this thread.....
Mocks are just that..mocks...and so much can happen that it's fun but NOT useful....
I also agree that there is a really good chance that with no OLB drafted on Day 1..that it seems a bit likely that JasonT will be a Patriot... and with the Pats taking Chung...that Rodney will retire...
I also think that versatility might not be exactly what they were looking for this year..OR at that spot where they were drafting in the 2nd round other players were more important...'m talking here about some of the binkies...Barwin, PWhite, lineman Unger..or LBDE Kruger all very versatile and they passed on them...although I have to wonder if they did not have one or more on the radar and they all were taken before the 58th... I think having a backup for Wilfork was more important as was having a top corner like Butler...
I think that the DL and DBs are all set more or less barring injuries...really deep AND that a bit more of the gamor positions might be looked at today...QB, WR, TE, OLB, ILB....as well as G/C and a punter.

...that i went to bed at h 01,00 a.m. waiting all first round and saw no picks

not bad anyway the 2nd round that i read this morning: Chung, Brace and Butler look good picks; i do not know so much about Vollmer but if they choose him with pick 58 there mist be a reason...Go Pats ! let's see day 2...i would like some OLB