Anyone Else Think Connor Barwin Is Overrated?

Box_O_Rocks said:

Dang, I work too slow or DaBruinz is using meth to get through the work day again!

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*LOL* No Box. Its not that. You did more work on yours. I just tore about the garbage. I figured that Mav wasn't worth anything more than that.

maverick4 said:

Exactly. I'm not knocking Trevor Scott, nor am I really trying to trash Barwin. Scott was a great pick under-rated player in the 6th round, and Barwin is over-rated as a 1st rounder. I think a late 2nd or somewhere in the 3rd round is where Barwin should be. Everyone forgets he was a 4th rounder before the combine and Senior events. It is unjustifiable to take such a raw player in the first round, especially when you look at what his clone Trevor Scott did this past year in the NFL.

Also, Box can quote Chris Price all he wants about Barwin supposedly being a consensus 1st rounder, it doesn't add to his argument. A lot of major busts were also consensus 1st round picks as well.

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When will you get it through that thick head of yours that Barwin is NOT a clone of Scott?? I've blown that stupid argument of yours out of the water already and nothin you can say will change the fact that it is just pure ignorance on your part to keep using it.

maverick4 said:

Only someone lacking in reading comprehension, such as yourself, would come to such a conclusion. Perhaps it is also why you seem to have so many inconsistencies in your reasoning abilities as well.

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WOW.. Just wow, Mav. Sorry, MAV, but why do you continue to LIE? Box's reading comprehension makes your's look like that of a 2 year old. Hell, you act like a 2 year old.. *apologizes to all the parents of 2 year olds who act better than Mav*

maverick4 said:

I said Trevor Scott was a great value pick/steal in the 6th round, not that Barwin was a 6th rounder. I have said multiple times that Barwin is probably a low 2nd or a 3rd rounder. Barwin started out as a 4th rounder immediately after the regular season ended. I said Barwin is overrated at #23 overall, not that he is a 6th rounder. Only a person devoid of logical reasoning skills would come to that conclusion based on my statements.

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First off, stop your lying. You didn't say Trevor Scott was great value originally. In fact, you've basically been saying he sucks and that's why he was only worth a 6th round pick. Secondly, I've already pointed out how DIFFERNT Scott and Barwin are and the fact that you continue to be ignorant and try to say that they are identical players shows that you are the one who hasn't been reading at all. You are the one wearing the earmuffs here. Third, Barwin was a solid 3rd rounder when the season ended and his stock has risen because people were taking a closer look at him. Not only that, as I mentioned, Barwin was one of only 4 LBs who did the drills exactly the way the coaches wanted them done. I know because I watched them..

Only a complete ignoramus would come to the conclusions you have based on the no name garbage sites you've visited. Only a person completely devoid of logic would compare two players like Barwin and Scott and claim that they are identical when that is the furthest thing from the truth.

JoeShmoe said:

Id take Britton (or Oher if he fell) at #20 (packaging #89 to move up) and then Barwin and Delmas like you at 34 and 47. The last second round pick id be tempted to look at an OG but not sure who's around or of value (Loadholt?)

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There is no need to package 89 with 24 to move up 4 spots. That is drastically over-paying. Packaging 89 with 24 would get them to 15 or 16.

Here's an interesting tidbit on whom the Saints might consider at #14 for LB:

http://blog.nola.com/fantasysports/2009/03/saints_draft_targets_lbs.html

In addition to Orapko, Maualuga, Cushing and Matthews, the article mentions one Connor Barwin: "OK, so Cincinnati might not be a football powerhouse, but Barwin ran a spectacular 4.4 at his pro day -- speed that proves he could definitely make the move from DE to LB. Like Orakpo, he might be more suited to a 3-4 system, but this kid has great all-around skills and could even play tight end if need be!"

Not that Barwin would fit well for New Orleans, but it does show that he is beginning to get more attention as a "legitimate" 1st round pick.

mayoclinic said:

Here's an interesting tidbit on whom the Saints might consider at #14 for LB:

http://blog.nola.com/fantasysports/2009/03/saints_draft_targets_lbs.html

In addition to Orapko, Maualuga, Cushing and Matthews, the article mentions one Connor Barwin: "OK, so Cincinnati might not be a football powerhouse, but Barwin ran a spectacular 4.4 at his pro day -- speed that proves he could definitely make the move from DE to LB. Like Orakpo, he might be more suited to a 3-4 system, but this kid has great all-around skills and could even play tight end if need be!"

Not that Barwin would fit well for New Orleans, but it does show that he is beginning to get more attention as a "legitimate" 1st round pick.

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What's not to say that he could be a 4-3 SLB? It's not like he doesn't have the size and extra qualities to play against TEs...except that he's overrated of course.

Ricey said:

As a first rounder. Yes

As a second rounder. No. Great Value, Has all the qualities u look for. One thing ppl dont really take into account is that Barwin is not only a freak athlete but he has tremendous work ethic and from what I hear, extremely coachable. Not to mention he was pretty productive in his first year starting on Defense.

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So wasn't Mike Mamula.

mayoclinic said:

Here's an interesting tidbit on whom the Saints might consider at #14 for LB:

http://blog.nola.com/fantasysports/2009/03/saints_draft_targets_lbs.html

In addition to Orapko, Maualuga, Cushing and Matthews, the article mentions one Connor Barwin: "OK, so Cincinnati might not be a football powerhouse, but Barwin ran a spectacular 4.4 at his pro day -- speed that proves he could definitely make the move from DE to LB. Like Orakpo, he might be more suited to a 3-4 system, but this kid has great all-around skills and could even play tight end if need be!"

Not that Barwin would fit well for New Orleans, but it does show that he is beginning to get more attention as a "legitimate" 1st round pick.

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Mayo,
I understand you like Barwin and think he's a legit 1st round pick and that's fine.
But please don't post a "Blog" by a simple Saints fan who admits in the blog that he has not "WATCHED" and admits that he does not know anything about any players he's talking about other than what he's reading and assuming while surfing the net, to back up your assumption that Barwin is as high as a 14 pick. This guy has no insight into the Saints to even be credited as an intellectual Saints draft blogger.
To use this guy to back up your assumption to say Barwin is getting "legitimate" 1st round pick is beneath you. You could find a more legitimate source to use I'm sure.

DaBruinz said:

There is no need to package 89 with 24 to move up 4 spots. That is drastically over-paying. Packaging 89 with 24 would get them to 15 or 16.

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I stand corrected .. 15-16, would that put us in with a shout of Oher or Everett Brown?

JoeShmoe said:

I stand corrected .. 15-16, would that put us in with a shout of Oher or Everett Brown?

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DaBruinz stated:
"There is no need to package 89 with 24 to move up 4 spots. That is drastically over-paying. Packaging 89 with 24 would get them to 15 or 16."


Joe,
Why do you stand corrected? DaBruinz is flat out wrong.

If you package 23 with 89 that's 905 points on the Draft Value Chart which would be pick 18.

You would need to package pick 23 with pick 58 to get to pick 15. That's a BIG difference. You were correct sir.

The Huddle Report - NFL Draft Research and Analysis

PatsandTrojans55 said:

Mayo,
I understand you like Barwin and think he's a legit 1st round pick and that's fine.
But please don't post a "Blog" by a simple Saints fan who admits in the blog that he has not "WATCHED" and admits that he does not know anything about any players he's talking about other than what he's reading and assuming while surfing the net, to back up your assumption that Barwin is as high as a 14 pick. This guy has no insight into the Saints to even be credited as an intellectual Saints draft blogger.
To use this guy to back up your assumption to say Barwin is getting "legitimate" 1st round pick is beneath you. You could find a more legitimate source to use I'm sure.

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I really think he was just adding this "tidbit" to the body of work he has laid out for all of us. I have been doing some research for the Saints as I have them in our PatsFans mock at the top of Draft Talk board. The guy has talent and a tremendous upside is why people are all over this kid. Some have different opinions but that is the draft I guess.

Maybe they are going to trade back With NE to #23 to get Barwin who knows but I would like that #14 pick to grab a guy who sliped out of the top 10.

PatsandTrojans55 said:

Mayo,
I understand you like Barwin and think he's a legit 1st round pick and that's fine.
But please don't post a "Blog" by a simple Saints fan who admits in the blog that he has not "WATCHED" and admits that he does not know anything about any players he's talking about other than what he's reading and assuming while surfing the net, to back up your assumption that Barwin is as high as a 14 pick. This guy has no insight into the Saints to even be credited as an intellectual Saints draft blogger.
To use this guy to back up your assumption to say Barwin is getting "legitimate" 1st round pick is beneath you. You could find a more legitimate source to use I'm sure.

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Fair enough. I found the link to that mock on Draftdaddy, which doesn't normally post user mocks, and I assumed it came from some "professional" source (of which there is a wide range). I take your word from it that it is a simple fan blog - which I didn't check - and I apologize if I gave any impression that it was "authoritative".

My only point was that I have begun to see slightly more boards and mocks with Barwin as a possible first round pick. That was the highest I had seen him, which was why I posted it, even though I personally think it is ludicrous (not so much because I think he doesn't have the talent, but because I don't think he's a good fit for the Saints). I believe I commented on the lack of fit when I posted it.

Rob Rang has Barwin going #25 to the Dolphins in his most recent mock. So, whether you like Barwin in the first or not, I think that you will see him crack the first round in at least some "professional" mocks, for whatever it's worth.

Yes, I like Barwin. Others prefer Matthews, English or Sintim. I don't dislike any of those, I just prefer Barwin. It's a bit like last year when Rivers was preferred by many over Mayo, and was generally rated high on mocks and draft boards. It ultimately doesn't matter who any of us prefer.

mayoclinic said:

Yes, I like Barwin. Others prefer Matthews, English or Sintim. I don't dislike any of those, I just prefer Barwin. It's a bit like last year when Rivers was preferred by many over Mayo, and was generally rated high on mocks and draft boards. It ultimately doesn't matter who any of us prefer.

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Last year I thought Rivers would be a terrible fit for the Pats. And I didn't see us taking him. I didn't see Mayo going as early as he did though. I thought the Pats would trade down at least one more time after moving down to #10 but they didn't. Looks like they made the right choice by not waiting till around 15ish which was where I thought Mayo would go. Just goes to show, when the Pats WANT a guy, they are not going to take a lot of chances that he is going to drop further. Which is why I think this year if they like Barwin, they'll take him at #23 rather than risk losing him at #25 to Miami.

PatsandTrojans55 said:

DaBruinz stated:
"There is no need to package 89 with 24 to move up 4 spots. That is drastically over-paying. Packaging 89 with 24 would get them to 15 or 16."


Joe,
Why do you stand corrected? DaBruinz is flat out wrong.

If you package 23 with 89 that's 905 points on the Draft Value Chart which would be pick 18.

You would need to package pick 23 with pick 58 to get to pick 15. That's a BIG difference. You were correct sir.

The Huddle Report - NFL Draft Research and Analysis

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Let me know when you've actually been a friggin GM in the NFL. Hell, all you have to do is look at some of the other drafts.. The Draft Value chart is a guide, not a hard and fast thing.

So, I am hardly WRONG. But the, you just show up once in a blue moon, spout off, and then disappear into the oblivion from whence you came.

What's funny about all this is, the Pats will draft an OL or RB.

VJC, kudos for not seeing Rivers as a fit in NE. I saw him as a dynamic LB and didn't give Mayo nearly enough credit. Nice to be wrong on that one.

I'm thinking more and more that someone we've written off as unattainable will drop to 23.

VJCPatriot said:

Last year I thought Rivers would be a terrible fit for the Pats. And I didn't see us taking him. I didn't see Mayo going as early as he did though. I thought the Pats would trade down at least one more time after moving down to #10 but they didn't. Looks like they made the right choice by not waiting till around 15ish which was where I thought Mayo would go. Just goes to show, when the Pats WANT a guy, they are not going to take a lot of chances that he is going to drop further. Which is why I think this year if they like Barwin, they'll take him at #23 rather than risk losing him at #25 to Miami.

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I was looking back at some of the mocks by top "professionals" discussed on this board a year ago. Don Banks, Mel Kiper and Todd McShay all had us taking Keith Rivers on their mocks right before the draft. Rivers was a bit like Clay Matthews this year - a very popular choice for the Pats with a lot of discussion about his career for a top program, being the heir to the fabled USC #55, being more highly ranked on draft boards and more generally touted, etc. Mayo really didn't emerge as a serious candidate until about a week before the draft. Clearly BB was willing to take a risk and move down to #10 (with Cincy rumored to love Ellis and Rivers, no other likely suitor for Mayo before Detroit at #15, and the advantage of both picking up draft picks and saving money) but not at moving down further, and he seems to have been correct.

I have nothing against Rivers, but he seemed like a 4-3 WLB to me, not a 3-4 WILB and I never thought he was a great fit for the Pats - just like Matthews doesn't seem to me like a Belichick 3-4 OLB, and English seems more to me like a 4-3 DE. I thought Mayo looked more the part then, and I think that Barwin looks more the part now. We won't know for 4 more weeks what BB thinks.

MetalBleachers said:

What's funny about all this is, the Pats will draft an OL or RB.

VJC, kudos for not seeing Rivers as a fit in NE. I saw him as a dynamic LB and didn't give Mayo nearly enough credit. Nice to be wrong on that one.

I'm thinking more and more that someone we've written off as unattainable will drop to 23.

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If BJ Raji drops to 23 I am more than happy to risk Barwin being gone at 34.

mayoclinic said:

If BJ Raji drops to 23 I am more than happy to risk Barwin being gone at 34.

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Amen! :rocker:

I would take Clay Mathews over Barwin at 23. I believe that Mathews could slide inside in a 3/4. Mathews appears closer to being N.F.L. ready. Barwin has such limited experience at any one position-it scares me a bit. He could be a Ben Watson type pick. Has alot of great tools-but may never deliver to the price of a round one pick. I believe Barwin-if he went in round 2 or3, could be a player to groom-less risk. I like English better than Barwin at 23. Again Barwin at 34-47-good call.

DaBruinz said:

Let me know when you've actually been a friggin GM in the NFL. Hell, all you have to do is look at some of the other drafts.. The Draft Value chart is a guide, not a hard and fast thing.

So, I am hardly WRONG. But the, you just show up once in a blue moon, spout off, and then disappear into the oblivion from whence you came.

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Here are some examples from the previous 2 years:

2007:

Denver/Jax:
First (#21), Third (#86), Fifth (#198)
traded for
(#17)

Jets/Carolina:
First (#25) 2007, Second (#59), Fifth (#164)
traded for
(#14) and Sixth (#191)



2008:

Baltimore/Jax
First (#26), Third (#71), Third (#89), Fourth (#125)
traded for
(#8)

Bal/Hous:
#26, Third (89), Sixth (189)
traded for
#18.