This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft

PATSNUTme · Mar 18, 2009

The other night I re-read a couple of chapters in the book, Patriot Reign. The chapters were about the way the Patriots went about scouting and the importance of that years draft to the team. Here is what they ended up with.

1 (13, 13) - Ty Warren, Texas A&M, DT One of the better 3-4 DE's
2 (4, 36) - Eugene Wilson, Illinois, DB 2 really good years at safety
2 (13, 45) - Bethel Johnson, Texas A&M, WR Bust? KO returns and a big TD playoff catch.
4 (20, 117) - Dan Klecko, Temple, DT ST and a few big plays
4 (23, 120) - Asante Samuel, Central Florida, DB tuned into a starter
5 (29, 164) - Dan Koppen, Boston College, C Still a starter
6 (28, 201) - Kliff Kingsbury, Texas Tech, QB
7 (20, 234) - Spencer Nead, Brigham Young, TE
7 (25, 239) - Tully Banta-Cain, California, DE He's back!
7 (29, 243) - Ethan Kelley, Baylor, DT

And thet converted a pick that ended up giving us Big Vince the following year.

This year the draft is as deep as 2003 and the Patriots will have as many picks.

All they have to do is hit on 2 or 3 of the picks this year and we are golden.

Thoughts?

PATSNUTme · Mar 19, 2009

Let me try it another way. Does this draft remind you of any during the Belichick eara.

bakes781 · Mar 19, 2009

PATSNUTme said:
Let me try it another way. Does this draft remind you of any during the Belichick eara.

It reminds me of 2006 where there was a deep LB class. In that draft the Pats chose to take RB, Laurence Maroney, WR, Chad Jackson and TE, David Thomas.

Perhaps(not likely) this year they select RB, Knowshon Moreno, WR, Darrius Heyward-Bey and TE, Shawn Nelson. But then again with the Pats ANYthing is likely! lol

alvinnf · Mar 19, 2009

I agree in the sense that they would be flip flopping DT and OL. I could see them taking OL higher and DT/DE later sort of the reverse of those two postions in 03'. Everything else position wise I could see shaking out similarly, Early wideout, high mid round corner project QB and so on.

PATSNUTme · Mar 19, 2009

I guess what I was getting at in a round about way, is that I see this as an important a draft, for the continuation of Patriots dynasty, as the 2003 draft was.

We can't afford to come out of this thing without a couple good hits.

captain stone · Mar 19, 2009

PATSNUTme said:
The other night I re-read a couple of chapters in the book, Patriot Reign. The chapters were about the way the Patriots went about scouting and the importance of that years draft to the team. Here is what they ended up with.

1 (13, 13) - Ty Warren, Texas A&M, DT One of the better 3-4 DE's
2 (4, 36) - Eugene Wilson, Illinois, DB 2 really good years at safety
2 (13, 45) - Bethel Johnson, Texas A&M, WR Bust? KO returns and a big TD playoff catch.
4 (20, 117) - Dan Klecko, Temple, DT ST and a few big plays
4 (23, 120) - Asante Samuel, Central Florida, DB tuned into a starter
5 (29, 164) - Dan Koppen, Boston College, C Still a starter
6 (28, 201) - Kliff Kingsbury, Texas Tech, QB
7 (20, 234) - Spencer Nead, Brigham Young, TE
7 (25, 239) - Tully Banta-Cain, California, DE He's back!
7 (29, 243) - Ethan Kelley, Baylor, DT

And thet converted a pick that ended up giving us Big Vince the following year.

This year the draft is as deep as 2003 and the Patriots will have as many picks.

All they have to do is hit on 2 or 3 of the picks this year and we are golden.

Thoughts?

'03 was the last really good draft. '05 was next-best. The rest have ranged from lousy to pathetic abomination.

Hit on 2 or 3? The geniuses need to hit on a half-dozen, at least. No more excuses.

bakes781 · Mar 19, 2009

PATSNUTme said:
I guess what I was getting at in a round about way, is that I see this as an important a draft, for the continuation of Patriots dynasty, as the 2003 draft was.

We can't afford to come out of this thing without a couple good hits.

So are you saying they addressed need over value?

PATSNUTme · Mar 19, 2009

bakes781 said:
So are you saying they addressed need over value?

I'm saying that they have to get value for their needs. I think they need to come out with the future replacement for Tedy. They need to come out with a top OLB. They need to come out with a RT who can also play LT if needed and that has to bye an upgrade. A SS would also be nice.

Where in the draft these quality players are found is not important. If you grab a player that you are not sure of, but fills a need, it doesn't ususally work. You are better off letting the draft come to you.

bakes781 · Mar 19, 2009

PATSNUTme said:
I'm saying that they have to get value for their needs. I think they need to come out with the future replacement for Tedy. They need to come out with a top OLB. They need to come out with a RT who can also play LT if needed and that has to bye an upgrade. A SS would also be nice.

Where in the draft these quality players are found is not important. If you grab a player that you are not sure of, but fills a need, it doesn't ususally work. You are better off letting the draft come to you.

I would hope they approach it this way too.

I think we all agree that OLB and S are major need areas on this team. I'm not sure if I'd agree on OT. I think a G/C would be higher.

If we knew where BB rated these guys it would make predicting this draft so much easier lol but when the pundits themselves can't seem to agree I'd say that's nearly impossible to predict.

I do hope that the Pats let the draft come to them as opposed to trading up and losing that flexibility they have in round 2.

reflexblue · Mar 19, 2009

I can some what compare it to the '03 draft,but last years produced quite a crop of young talent. I do think its important to follow up on last years draft,and we have the picks,high picks to surpass last years. I think we need to get a top flight CB or OLB/pass rusher. Despite what others have said Springs is old and Bodden is a one year deal i believe and also a ?.The same can be said for OLB even though Crable looked good in pre season last year.

Also OL, TE, SS,NT back up to wilfork
I know there are other areas of need for the future,just can't think of them off the top of my head at the moment.

JMarr · Mar 24, 2009

Thanks for heads up PATSNUTme. Just finished Patriot Reign and Chapter 10 should be required reading for anyone wishing to post in the Draft Forum this month.

I agree with you about the similarities between these drafts, both as far as the insane number of quality picks we have to move around with (well maybe not #14 and #19

)but still; also our aggressive free agent moves covering holes that otherwise would have clouded the picture in a big way.

This is going to be fun as hell, and for the first time I'm thinking that losing Pioli might turn into a positive--new blood, new perspectives, and the year of the BB laser-focus.

woolster22 · Mar 24, 2009

Patriot Reign is a good one. OL OL OL! Then LB and safety next. Wouldn't mind a 3-4th rd flier on a CB/WR. I can't wait to see what BB comes up with though. The options he has at his disposal makes your head spin! To trade, or not to trade? Peppers/Taylor would make things real interesting and would make me guess we'll see two OL in the first 4 picks. I still would guess we'll take OL, OLB, CB/S, and the 4th is a wild card. I wouldn't mind seeing us trading up into the first for one of the better OT with potential to take Lights job, don't get me started with him...but I'm just an over zealous fan =)

BPF · Mar 25, 2009

JMarr said:
Thanks for heads up PATSNUTme. Just finished Patriot Reign and Chapter 10 should be required reading for anyone wishing to post in the Draft Forum this month.

I agree with you about the similarities between these drafts, both as far as the insane number of quality picks we have to move around with (well maybe not #14 and #19 )but still; also our aggressive free agent moves covering holes that otherwise would have clouded the picture in a big way.

This is going to be fun as hell, and for the first time I'm thinking that losing Pioli might turn into a positive--new blood, new perspectives, and the year of the BB laser-focus.

A lot of movement to get the players the Pats targeted:

2003 NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS

1 13 Ty Warren DL Texas A&M From Chicago for a 1st (14) and 6th (193)

2 36 Eugene Wilson DB Illinois From Houston, along with a 4th (117), for a 2nd (41) and 3rd (75)

2 45 Bethel Johnson WR Texas A&M From Carolina for a 2nd (50) and 4th (120)

4 117 Dan Klecko DT Temple From Houston, along with a 2nd (36), for a 2nd (41) and 3rd (75)

4 120 Asante Samuel CB Central Florida From Denver for a 4th (128) and 5th (157)

5 164 Dan Koppen C Boston College From Tennessee, along with a 6th (201) and 7th (243), for a 5th (154) and 7th (225)

6 201 Kliff Kingsbury QB Texas Tech From Tennessee, along with a 5th (164) and 7th (243), for a 5th (154) and 7th (225)

7 234 Spencer Nead TE BYU

7 239 Tully Banta-Cain LB California From New Orleans, along with a 3rd (78) in 2003 and a 4th in 2004, for Tebucky Jones

7 243 Ethan Kelley NT Baylor From Tennessee, along with a 5th (164) and 6th (201), for a 5th (154) and 7th (225)

captain stone · Mar 25, 2009

The one thing on which I have pinned my hope that the FO can finally have another decent draft, is that the last time the Pats missed the POs, they had their best draft of the BB era the following spring.

bradmahn · Mar 25, 2009

captain stone said:
The one thing on which I have pinned my hope that the FO can finally have another decent draft, is that the last time the Pats missed the POs, they had their best draft of the BB era the following spring.

Do you just have insanely high expectations or do you simply hate the picks they've made since then?

2004 produced an All-Pro caliber nose tackle and a better-than-average tight end.

2005: an All-Pro caliber LG and better-than-average players at CB and RT who have contributed throughout the life of their contracts, a very good backup/solid starter at S, and a Matt Cassel. That's way more than "decent."

2006: Sub-par but still saw the addition of Gostkowski, O'Callaghan, Smith and Maroney, who have all played key roles for the team at some point in their careers (and one Pro Bowler). Andrews was a pretty good special teamer while he lasted.

2007: Meriweather is promising. You can't judge this draft solely by the player picked, as it netted Moss, Welker, the selection used for Mayo and a late third rounder was turned into a mid-2nd in '09.

Last year's draft is too early to judge but Mayo is a keeper and everyone else is still with the team and we could see big jumps from some of the players.

How are any of those not "decent" and how can you argue that '05 wasn't great?

Revman · Mar 25, 2009

Interesting- This is another reason I have not discounted Pat's selecting Evander Hood at 23. Ty Warren was the pick. A college DT- moved to de in a 3/4. I believe that if Pat's acquire Peppers or Taylor, then Hood becomes a credible option. Especially with so many contracts to deal with next year, Seymour-Wilfork etc. Hood offers the power, quickness,size, to hold up at end. Also a great motor and effective moves. He could be a very good end in a 3/4 defense.

BPF · Mar 25, 2009

Revman said:
Interesting- This is another reason I have not discounted Pat's selecting Evander Hood at 23. Ty Warren was the pick. A college DT- moved to de in a 3/4. I believe that if Pat's acquire Peppers or Taylor, then Hood becomes a credible option. Especially with so many contracts to deal with next year, Seymour-Wilfork etc. Hood offers the power, quickness,size, to hold up at end. Also a great motor and effective moves. He could be a very good end in a 3/4 defense.

How about Tyson Jackson?

captain stone · Mar 25, 2009

bradmahn said:
Do you just have insanely high expectations or do you simply hate the picks they've made since then?

It's the latter.

2004 produced an All-Pro caliber nose tackle and a better-than-average tight end.

Bumblin' Bennie is not > average.

2005: an All-Pro caliber LG and better-than-average players at CB and RT who have contributed throughout the life of their contracts, a very good backup/solid starter at S, and a Matt Cassel. That's way more than "decent."

My opinion of lil' Jimmy Sanders isn't as high, though 2005 is def. the best draft since '03.

2006: Sub-par but still saw the addition of Gostkowski, O'Callaghan, Smith and Maroney, who have all played key roles for the team at some point in their careers (and one Pro Bowler). Andrews was a pretty good special teamer while he lasted.

O'C has done nothing since the first half of '06, and is too big & slow to suit this OL's modus operandi, anyway. At the risk of upsetting Keegs, LKSmith is easily upgradeable. I'd have drafted Rodrique Wright instead. It is indeed too bad about Weed Willie Andrews. And this year is make or break for LaMa.

2007: Meriweather is promising. You can't judge this draft solely by the player picked, as it netted Moss, Welker, the selection used for Mayo and a late third rounder was turned into a mid-2nd in '09.

I am judging this draft by the players drafted, not by the players/picks acquired by trade. Meriweather wasn't even the best Safety available, never mind the best player available. The rest of the picks were completely effed-up beyond belief.

Last year's draft is too early to judge but Mayo is a keeper and everyone else is still with the team and we could see big jumps from some of the players.

We could, but I won't hold my breath. Lil' Terry Wheatley is too damn fragile; I'd have drafted Cliff Avril instead of Shawn Crable, and Orlando Scandrick instead of Short 'n Slow Johnny Wilhite; and Slater & Ruud shouldn't have been drafted at all, even if it lasted 9 rounds.

How are any of those not "decent" and how can you argue that '05 wasn't great?

'05 was good, the best since '03. Was it "great"? Well, it's cert. better than this time last year, because we just recieved the #34 overall for someone who was nearly Mr. Irrelevant.

Coach42 · Mar 26, 2009

captain stone said:
'05 was good, the best since '03. Was it "great"? Well, it's cert. better than this time last year, because we just recieved the #34 overall for someone who was nearly Mr. Irrelevant.

There is a reason this team continues to win and it has everything to do with the way they draft. I think you need to view some of the past drafts of the Jets, Bills, and Dolphins to gain some perspective. Even for the very best drafting is an inexact science. I also think you are selling Merriweather short.

captain stone · Mar 26, 2009

I don't care about the other teams, I only care about my team. If 3 of his classmates received a D on their exams, should I excuse my son for receiving a C- ?

Am I selling Meriweather short? Until proven otherwise, yes I am. If I needed a Safety at the end of the 1st round, I would've chosen Eric Weddle. I had already removed Stomper from consideration. Of course, had the FO chosen FS Antoine Bethea instead of Jeremy Mincey or Dan Stevenson in the 6th round of the '06 draft, we wouldn't have needed a FS in the 1st round in the first place.

This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft

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