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Patsfans Draft Forum Patriots Mock- March 2009


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Are you thinking of the right guy? Kruger's 263 lbs....

The only way he woudl be drafted by the Patriots would be an OLB prospect. I really like this guy but I'm unsure if he could convert to OLB or is a better fit as a rush DE in a Tampa type defense.
 
#23 Percy Harvin WR
#34 Larry English OLB
#47 Louis Delmas S
#58 Jamon Meredith OT
#89 Chip Vaughn S
#98 Dannell Ellerbe ILB
#120 Nic Harris OLB
#186 Ian Johnson RB *His round is low, but he is my Binky:singing:
 
Trade: #23, #58, and #200 to NYG for #29, #45

#29 William Beatty OT Connecticut
#34 Clint Sintim OLB Virginia
#45 Patrick Chung S Oregon
#47 Sean Smith DB Utah
#89 Jasper Brinkley ILB South Carolina
#97 Antoine Caldwell G Alabama
#124 Corey Irvin DE Georgia
#173 Tiquan Underwood WR Rutgers
#208 Kory Sperry TE Colorado St
#230 Terrence Knighton NT Temple
#236 Pierre Walters OLB Eastern Illinois

Priority FA:
Bradley Fletcher CB Iowa
Jamarca Sanford S Mississippi
Ryan McKee OT Southern Mississippi
Richard Quinn TE North Carolina
Ryan Durand G Syracuse
Seth Olson G Iowa
Mike Teel QB Rutgers
Zachary Miller QB/TE Nebraska-Omaha
Manuel Johnson WR Oklahoma
Antonio Appleby ILB Virginia
Ryan Palmer CB Texas
Khalif Mitchell DE East Carolina
Louis Ellis NT Shaw
Curtis Brinkley RB Syracuse
Colt Anderson S Montana
Any Ps and/or PKs available


Weird how it turned out, but I'm happy with it. Sean Smith still being available at #47 really turned the draft upside down for me, as I felt he was far too good to pass over, even though I'm not one of his huge supporters on the board. Different than I anticipated, but still a good draft, I think.
 
I had Barwin and Brace when I started my list but changed them to Sintim and Wood. But I would not be unhappy if it broke your way. You also included Vaughn and Ingram. If I would have stuck with my original list, we would have had 5 of the same picks. Very unusual for this exercise.:D

Cool! I had Sintim in my original mock a few months ago and would be delighted if we ended up with Sintim or Wood too!
 
we would have had 5 of the same picks. Very unusual for this exercise.:D

I don't know...there seems to be a greater consensus this year than in previous ones. Box must be getting more persuasive.
 
I don't know...there seems to be a greater consensus this year than in previous ones. Box must be getting more persuasive.

I actually would be happy with your draft too even though we only had one common player.

Box is head over heels in love with Barwin, while I have a crush on Matthews, so he's not casting his spell on me.
 
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Post draft this team is going to very deep. Binkies will be cut during camp, I repeat binkies will be cut.

#23 - Evander Hood DT Missouri - replaces Wright, more d line depth
#34 - Connor Barwin OLB Cincinnati - why the hell not, likely to take over as 3rd QB by midseason while he finishes his doctorate at Harvard, also cures cancer by week 3
#47 - Patrick Chung SS Oregon - provides versatility and depth to both Safeties spots
#58 - Asher Allen CB Georgia - takes Wilhite's spot
#89 - Gerald Cadogan OT Penn State #98 - Quality depth at RT / G, starts in year 2
#98 - Fenuki Tupou OT Oregon - sure more O Line, RT starter potential
#120 - Ricky Jean-Francois DT LSU - more D line
#186 - John Phillips TE Virginia - big strong TE, could take Thomas's spot or practice squad
#216 - Travis McCall FB Alabama - thats right #388 overall, starts at FB and destroys people all year long
 
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23. d. butler - cb
34. a. maybin - de/lb
47. e. wood - ol
58. w. moore - s
89. t. kropog - ol
97. g. mcgrath - lb
120. a. collie - wr
186. k. huber - p
217. d. butler - wr

i like the symmetry.
 
Nick - The pick for Stallworth is probably going to be a 5th, not a 4th. Stallworth didn't do squat for the Browns. And the comp pick for Gay is likely to be a 6th round pick.

As such, I have corrected the numbers for the picks beyond #96.


No Trades:

1- #23 Ebon Britton - OT - Arizona
2- #34 (KC) Connor Barwin OLB Cincinnati
2- #47 (SD) Sean Smith FS/CB Utah
2- #58 Jarron Gilbert DE San Jose State
3- #89 Chip Vaughn S Wake Forest
3- #97 (Comp Samuel) Trevor Canfield G Cincinnati
4- #124 Mike Wallace - WR - Missouri
5- #161 (Traded for Greg Lewis)
5- #173 ( Comp for Stallworth) Lydon Murtha - OT - Nebraska
6- #200 Stephen Hodge - S - TCU
6 -#208 (Comp Gay) Graham Gano K/P - Florida State
7- #237 Terrence Knighton - NT - Temple

Trades:

The Pats trade #23 and #89 to the Giants for #29 and #44
Pats trade #200 to the Bears for a 2010 5th round pick.

1- #23 (Traded to NY Giants)
1- #29 (NYG) Ebon Britton - OT - Arizona
2- #34 (KC) Connor Barwin OLB Cincinnati
2- #44 (NYG) Louis Delmas - S - W. Michigan
2- #47 (SD) Sean Smith FS/CB Utah
2- #58 Jarron Gilbert DE San Jose State
3- #89 (traded to NYG)
3- #97 (Comp Samuel) Trevor Canfield G Cincinnati
4- #124 Mike Wallace - WR - Missouri
5- #161 (Traded for Greg Lewis)
5- #173 ( Comp for Stallworth) Lydon Murtha - OT - Nebraska
6- #200 - (traded to the Bears)
6 -#208 (Comp Gay) Stephen Hodge - S - TCU
7- #230 - Terrence Knighton - NT - Temple
 
Nick - The pick for Stallworth is probably going to be a 5th, not a 4th. Stallworth didn't do squat for the Browns. And the comp pick for Gay is likely to be a 6th round pick.

As such, I have corrected the numbers for the picks beyond #96.


No Trades:

1- #23 Ebon Britton - OT - Arizona
2- #34 (KC) Connor Barwin OLB Cincinnati
2- #47 (SD) Sean Smith FS/CB Utah
2- #58 Jarron Gilbert DE San Jose State
3- #89 Chip Vaughn S Wake Forest
3- #97 (Comp Samuel) Trevor Canfield G Cincinnati
4- #124 Mike Wallace - WR - Missouri
5- #161 (Traded for Greg Lewis)
5- #173 ( Comp for Stallworth) Lydon Murtha - OT - Nebraska
6- #200 Stephen Hodge - S - TCU
6 -#208 (Comp Gay) Graham Gano K/P - Florida State
7- #237 Terrence Knighton - NT - Temple

Love this one. Not that it's mine to change but I would try to work Dillard from Rice in there somewhere and an interior lineman implace of another OT. Or maybe Murtha actually projects better inside.
 
Love this one. Not that it's mine to change but I would try to work Dillard from Rice in there somewhere and an interior lineman implace of another OT. Or maybe Murtha actually projects better inside.

Canfield is in there as an Interior lineman.
 
Canfield is in there as an Interior lineman.

I know I like him. I was just thinking you projected Murtha inside. I was looking at it more from the perspective of an OT, that late is just ****e, unless he plays inside. This draft is loaded at OT, maybe it's a good. It does'nt matter what I think, nit picking aside it's a good job.
 
Alright, I'll give it a whirl:


1.23 - Eben Britton, OT - Arizona
2.34 - Connor Barwin, OLB - Cincinnati (from trade w/KC)
2.47 - Patrick Chung, S - Oregon (from '08 trade w/SD)
2.58 - Darry Beckwith, ILB - LSU
3.89 - Kevin Barnes, CB - Maryland
3.97 - Trevor Canfield, G - Cincinnati (comp for Asante Samuel)
4.124 - Kyle Moore, DE - USC
5.161 - traded to Philadelphia for WR Greg Lewis -
5.173 - Lydon Murtha, OT - Nebraska (comp for Donte Stallworth)
6.200 - Brooks Foster, WR - North Carolina
6.208 - Anthony Parker, G - Tennessee (comp for Randall Gay)
7.230 - Ladarius Webb, CB - Nicholls State


I think I've changed this about a dozen times, but I'll go with this - for today. I will also say that I think one of those 2nds will be successfully shopped to somebody for a 2010 1st on draft day.
 
The Pats trade #23 and #89 to the Giants for #29 and #44
Pats trade #200 to the Bears for a 2010 5th round pick.

1- #23 (Traded to NY Giants)
1- #29 (NYG) Ebon Britton - OT - Arizona
2- #34 (KC) Connor Barwin OLB Cincinnati
2- #44 (NYG) Louis Delmas - S - W. Michigan
2- #47 (SD) Sean Smith FS/CB Utah
2- #58 Jarron Gilbert DE San Jose State
3- #89 (traded to NYG)
3- #97 (Comp Samuel) Trevor Canfield G Cincinnati
4- #124 Mike Wallace - WR - Missouri
5- #161 (Traded for Greg Lewis)
5- #173 ( Comp for Stallworth) Lydon Murtha - OT - Nebraska
6- #200 - (traded to the Bears)
6 -#208 (Comp Gay) Stephen Hodge - S - TCU
7- #230 - Terrence Knighton - NT - Temple

Nifty. I'm curious for your thoughts on Britton...are you projecting him as a long-term RT, or to LT? There's a lot to like about him, but he doesn't fit the typical Pats athletic profile of guys like Light or even Kaczur. (Neither did O'Callaghan, but that's not exactly a shining counterexample.)
 
Let's see how this falls out using CoachK's calculations off the AdamJT13 prognostication.

23 - Connor Barwin OLB
34 - Hakeem Nicks WR
47 - Louis Delmas FS
58 - Jarron Gilbert DE
89 - Chip Vaughn SS
97 - Augustus Parrish OL
124 - Jason Phillips ILB
173 - T. J. Lang OL
200 - Stephen Hodge SS
208 - Lardarius Webb CB
236 - Terrance Knighton DL

Priority Free Agents
Robert Francois ILB
Tyrell Sutton RB
Brice McCain CB
Dobson Collins WR
DeAngelo Willingham CB/FS
Sean Griffin LS
Josh Vaughan RB

Free Agents
Anthony Felder ILB/ST
Jeremy Childs WR
Andrew Hartline OT
Pierre Walters DE/LB
Bradley Fletcher CB/FS
Zach Potter DE
Ryan Stanchek OL
Chris Miller P
Seth Olsen OL
Jason Boltus QB
D.J. Boldin WR
Cody Glenn ILB
Dudley Guice WR
Dan Skuta ILB
Chase Holbrook QB
 
Trades:

The Pats trade #23 and #89 to the Giants for #29 and #44
Pats trade #200 to the Bears for a 2010 5th round pick.

1- #23 (Traded to NY Giants)
1- #29 (NYG) Ebon Britton - OT - Arizona
2- #34 (KC) Connor Barwin OLB Cincinnati
2- #44 (NYG) Louis Delmas - S - W. Michigan
2- #47 (SD) Sean Smith FS/CB Utah
2- #58 Jarron Gilbert DE San Jose State
3- #89 (traded to NYG)
3- #97 (Comp Samuel) Trevor Canfield G Cincinnati
4- #124 Mike Wallace - WR - Missouri
5- #161 (Traded for Greg Lewis)
5- #173 ( Comp for Stallworth) Lydon Murtha - OT - Nebraska
6- #200 - (traded to the Bears)
6 -#208 (Comp Gay) Stephen Hodge - S - TCU
7- #230 - Terrence Knighton - NT - Temple

There are a lot of similarities between your draft with trades and my earlier draft from this morning, with a couple of mainly logistic differences on how we get there.

I don't think trading #23 and #89 will be sufficient for #29 and #44. If you look at the points value charts (I've used the one from NFLdraftcountdown), #29 + 44 = 1100 points (640 + 460). #23 is worth 760 points, for a difference of 340 points. #89 is worth 145 points, so that trade would favor us by 200 points (about equal to the value of pick #78). It's hard to understand why the Giants would make that trade.

In my scenario posted earlier today in this thread, I proposed a more realistic trade for #29 + 44, using #23 + #58. That would come out to 1080 points vs. 1100, a reasonable match. Making that trade would give us the following picks through the 4th round:

#29
#34
#44
#47
#89
#98 (non-tradeable comp pick)
#124


Using Patchick's method, I tried to make each pick without knowing what would be available later on.

Like you, I used #29 on an OT, preferring William Beatty to Eben Britton. I think this is the biggest danger of trading down to #29, because the Eagles sit at #28 and OT is arguably their greatest need. So the trade down might cost us a key player. I'm not sure I am high enough on Britton as an OL prospect to pass up Barwin at #29, whereas I think Beatty as 10 year pro bowl potential at LT.

Like you, I used #34 on Connor Barwin, as my preferred OLB candidate and too good a talent to pass up. And, like you, I used #44 on Louis Delmas, who is my preferred S candidate and who I also thought was too good to pass up. Also, like you I picked OG Trevor Canfield at 97 and WR Mike Wallace at 124.

You took Sean Smith at #47 and Jarron Gilbert at #58. Those are solid picks. I love Sean Smith and have championed him to some degree on this board. But with the Springs and Bodden signings I have no longer been able to justify spending 2 high picks on DBs. You could justify Smith as BPA, but I'm not sure he is BVA if you incorporate need. I went for Robert Ayers at #47 as an SILB candidate, as there is a greater need at that position right now. But I understand your logic.

Gilbert would be a great pickup, but in my scenario we gave #58 to the Giants. Since CBS/NFLdraftscout has Gilbert ranked #85 and we still have #89 in my scenario, I solved that dilemma by having us trade up with the Eagles from #89 to #85, throwing a 6th rounder in to make up the 20 point difference. That trade seemed realistic to me because Philadelphia doesn't need a 3-4 DE, and because if Gilbert actually fell to 85 I think we would want to trade up a few spots and get him with Miami and Baltimore picking right in front of us at 89. Both of those teams would likely go after Gilbert. In reality I doubt Gilbert will ever last that long, but given that we are following a fixed ranking it seemed reasonable.
 
my version
#23 Darius Butler CB #34 Connor Barwin OLB #47 Patrick Chung SS #58 Jarron Gilbert DE #89 Gerald Cadogan OT #98 David Bruton FS #120 Bear Pascoe TE #186 Ian Johnson RB #217 Deon Butler WR
 
There are a lot of similarities between your draft with trades and my earlier draft from this morning, with a couple of mainly logistic differences on how we get there.

I don't think trading #23 and #89 will be sufficient for #29 and #44. If you look at the points value charts (I've used the one from NFLdraftcountdown), #29 + 44 = 1100 points (640 + 460). #23 is worth 760 points, for a difference of 340 points. #89 is worth 145 points, so that trade would favor us by 200 points (about equal to the value of pick #78). It's hard to understand why the Giants would make that trade.

In my scenario posted earlier today in this thread, I proposed a more realistic trade for #29 + 44, using #23 + #58. That would come out to 1080 points vs. 1100, a reasonable match. Making that trade would give us the following picks through the 4th round:

#29
#34
#44
#47
#89
#98 (non-tradeable comp pick)
#124

Mayo - The draft chart you are using is about 15 years old and hasn't been updated to account for the fact that rounds 2nd through 7 are limited to 4 year contracts. I created a chart 2 years ago and it does account for that.

Some people poo pooed it.. but I think its much more realistic..
http://www.geocities.com/nh_wynter/DraftValueChart.htm

Also, I took the approach that the Giants approached the Patriots and, therefore, were willing to over-pay to move up.


Using Patchick's method, I tried to make each pick without knowing what would be available later on.

Like you, I used #29 on an OT, preferring William Beatty to Eben Britton. I think this is the biggest danger of trading down to #29, because the Eagles sit at #28 and OT is arguably their greatest need. So the trade down might cost us a key player. I'm not sure I am high enough on Britton as an OL prospect to pass up Barwin at #29, whereas I think Beatty as 10 year pro bowl potential at LT.

Why is tackle the Eagles greatest need? They signed Stacey Andrews who is an OT.

Like you, I used #34 on Connor Barwin, as my preferred OLB candidate and too good a talent to pass up. And, like you, I used #44 on Louis Delmas, who is my preferred S candidate and who I also thought was too good to pass up. Also, like you I picked OG Trevor Canfield at 97 and WR Mike Wallace at 124.

You took Sean Smith at #47 and Jarron Gilbert at #58. Those are solid picks. I love Sean Smith and have championed him to some degree on this board. But with the Springs and Bodden signings I have no longer been able to justify spending 2 high picks on DBs. You could justify Smith as BPA, but I'm not sure he is BVA if you incorporate need. I went for Robert Ayers at #47 as an SILB candidate, as there is a greater need at that position right now. But I understand your logic.

The way I looked at it was that Smith can play either Safety or Corner. And with the fact that Springs is 34 and Bodden and Hobbs are expected to be Free Agents next season (whether they are UFA or RFA remains to be seen), having an option like Smith available would be good. Smith being available would also allow the Pats to use Hobbs and Wheatley on kick returns without much fear of injury.

Gilbert would be a great pickup, but in my scenario we gave #58 to the Giants. Since CBS/NFLdraftscout has Gilbert ranked #85 and we still have #89 in my scenario, I solved that dilemma by having us trade up with the Eagles from #89 to #85, throwing a 6th rounder in to make up the 20 point difference. That trade seemed realistic to me because Philadelphia doesn't need a 3-4 DE, and because if Gilbert actually fell to 85 I think we would want to trade up a few spots and get him with Miami and Baltimore picking right in front of us at 89. Both of those teams would likely go after Gilbert. In reality I doubt Gilbert will ever last that long, but given that we are following a fixed ranking it seemed reasonable.

Thanks for the over-all feedback.
 
my version
#23 Darius Butler CB #34 Connor Barwin OLB #47 Patrick Chung SS #58 Jarron Gilbert DE #89 Gerald Cadogan OT #98 David Bruton FS #120 Bear Pascoe TE #186 Ian Johnson RB #217 Deon Butler WR

The numbers you have beyond #98 are incorrect.

Here are the correct draft pick numbers:
23
34
47
58
89
97
124
173
200
208
236
 
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Mayo - The draft chart you are using is about 15 years old and hasn't been updated to account for the fact that rounds 2nd through 7 are limited to 4 year contracts. I created a chart 2 years ago and it does account for that.

Some people poo pooed it.. but I think its much more realistic..
http://www.geocities.com/nh_wynter/DraftValueChart.htm

Also, I took the approach that the Giants approached the Patriots and, therefore, were willing to over-pay to move up.

I understand that there's controversy about the draft value chart and that the old chart is considered conservative. But with no real accepted standard I'm sticking to the old one for now. If we can do better, then great. I'd love to get away with your proposed trade, I'm just skeptical.

Why is tackle the Eagles greatest need? They signed Stacey Andrews who is an OT.

Andrews was mainly a RT, and is coming off a knee injury. John Runyan is aging. So I still see Philadelphia needing a LT, and being a likely team to target Beatty. I did say "arguably" because of the Andrews signing, and if Beatty were to fall to us at #29 I would be thrilled. To my mind the biggest threats Beatty being available to us are Detroit at #20 and Philadelphia at #21 or 28. I don't see Minnesota (22), Atlanta (24), Miami (25), Baltimore (26) or Indy (27) going after a tackle, and I think it is unlikely that Beatty goes before #20 at this point (Washington at #13 and Chicago at #18 are the main teams in the teens needing a tackle, but this seems high for Beatty and both need more of a RT than a LT), though he could rise up, particularly with Andre Smith trying his best to implode.

The way I looked at it was that Smith can play either Safety or Corner. And with the fact that Springs is 34 and Bodden and Hobbs are expected to be Free Agents next season (whether they are UFA or RFA remains to be seen), having an option like Smith available would be good. Smith being available would also allow the Pats to use Hobbs and Wheatley on kick returns without much fear of injury.

As I said, your picks were solid. I love Smith, and right now I rate him above Ayers by a hair. But if we got Delmas at #44 and both Smith and Ayers were available at 47, I would go for Ayers based on the greater need at SILB, assuming the Pats believed as I do that he could play there.

Thanks for the over-all feedback.

As I said, our drafts agreed to an uncanny degree, so obviously I thought yours was a great draft. :D
 
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