The BB drafts, summarized

Fencer said:

Who do you count as middle-class talent that the Pats drafted? Who do you count as middle-class talent that came in in other ways?

Everybody's definition of the term differs a bit, but I'd guess you'll find only a minority was drafted.

If you add draftees, UDFAs, and young players who arrived after not accomplishing anything for the teams that drafted them, then you'd have a pretty awesome list. But if you look just at the use of picks, I don't think I was understating it in my references to starters, contributors, backup QBs, and so on.

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But you did, you refuse to look at the use of picks via trades.

JackBauer said:

Meriweather is not "too soon to judge."

He's a baller, straight up yo.

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I agree he is a baller, but I think he needs to do it for more than 1 season.

Patsrock said:

But you did, you refuse to look at the use of picks via trades.

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If they were for picks, I'm looking at the results of the picks.

If they were for vets, that's something else. A very important something else in the case of, say, two Pro Bowl receivers. But something else even so.

What, no analysis of the BB drafts during the Cleveland days?!?

I think the "Butterfingers Slater" dig is a little harsh considering the contributions he made this year as a 5th rounder and a rookie. He was 2nd on the team in special teams tackles -- this is no easy feat on a team that's got so much ST talent. Yes, he botched that punt against Pittsburgh, but that's not what lost that game for us -- at worst that blew our 5th chance at having a shot in the game, not the game itself.

Besides, with some more quality reps as a returner, he might be able to turn it around. See Adam Vinatieri for special teams player that had a horrendous start to his career before making a dramatic turnaround.

You guys do realize that it's literally impossible for the Patriots to draft 7 starters per year, right? Even if they were capable of doing it, it would just be physically impossible.

This exercise is like evaluating a defense without regard to the offense and coaching that compliment it. Much like ordering a diet coke with a thickburger...good intentions but missing the big picture.

Teams have assets to use in team building (picks, cap space and players). Teams can choose to collect, spend or trade any of them. You want to collect/spend picks in deep draft classes and trade them in poor ones. You want to free up cap space in anticipation of top free agents and use the money elsewhere when there are no free agents you want. You want to trade away players with depreciating value and trade for players that you project will gain value in your system.

While all of this is obvious, people continue to miss the point. The Pats 2007 draft was generally ugly but the 2007 offseason was frickin' brilliant. When evaluating a draft or cap situation or player trades, you have to look at team building as a whole. I'm not sure how you could have done better than the Pats year-to-year since Belichick has arrived.

Metaphors said:

This exercise is like evaluating a defense without regard to the offense and coaching that compliment it. Much like ordering a diet coke with a thickburger...good intentions but missing the big picture.

Teams have assets to use in team building (picks, cap space and players). Teams can choose to collect, spend or trade any of them. You want to collect/spend picks in deep draft classes and trade them in poor ones. You want to free up cap space in anticipation of top free agents and use the money elsewhere when there are no free agents you want. You want to trade away players with depreciating value and trade for players that you project will gain value in your system.

While all of this is obvious, people continue to miss the point. The Pats 2007 draft was generally ugly but the 2007 offseason was frickin' brilliant. When evaluating a draft or cap situation or player trades, you have to look at team building as a whole. I'm not sure how you could have done better than the Pats year-to-year since Belichick has arrived.

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But.... but...... but.... that 7th rounder never played in the NFL!

Metaphors said:

This exercise is like evaluating a defense without regard to the offense and coaching that compliment it. Much like ordering a diet coke with a thickburger...good intentions but missing the big picture.

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So that's where you got your screen name from. hehe

BradyFTW! said:

You guys do realize that it's literally impossible for the Patriots to draft 7 starters per year, right? Even if they were capable of doing it, it would just be physically impossible.

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At the rate they let drafted starters walk, they could come closer to that figure than you may have been first thinking.

yeah and if you look close, youll see we do very well in the second round.

i think we should just not think about julius peppers and keep our draft picks. we could get a couple of real players on the cheap with the picks we have...perhaps package two of them to get a high 1st rounder if we really like a guy like Orakpo or Cushing and feel we need to move up to get him...

should be a good draft year this year. i definitely don't think that losing some of those picks for a guy like Peppers makes sense at this point, unless we can do it for the 34 pick. perhaps carolina will have its hands tied and have to do it.

I might have the picks wrong, but....

I thought we got a 1st for Branch, picked Merriweather with that pick. Then traded our own 1st to SF for their 1st a year later, and their 4th in that year. We then traded the 4th for Randy Moss.......

In effect we got a 1st and Moss for Branch......

Fencer said:

They weren't drafted, doooooooooooooooooooooood.

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They were paid for with draft choices, Duuuuuude!

When you consider the players, the Pats have gotten (drafted AND traded for via draft picks), the UDFA's that have made the team (at least one most years or one each year if I am not mistaken), the number of drafted players that haven't made a usually LOADED Pats team but make it to another clubs practice squad or team, and the fact that NE usually picks toward the bottom of the round each year - it is TRUELY freekin amazing how well BB & SP have done (when it is such an inexact 'science').

Now we just cross our fingers and hope the train keeps on a rollin without SP....

P.S. This is why draft day for a Pats fan seems to come as slowly as Christmas comes!

AzPatsFan said:

They were paid for with draft choices, Duuuuuude!

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Most trades in the NFL are made with draft picks because of the salary cap ramifications of trading players. So the Pats made excellent value trades to acquire Moss and Welker. But they were not draft picks, they were traded for. Those are two separate things. That's like saying the Buffalo Bills 'drafted' Drew Bledsoe. That's false. They traded a resource they had ' a 1st round draft pick' for a veteran player. True.

Do we evaluate free agent acquisitions as part of the draft? No. Why? Just because no draft picks were spent to acquire them? Where do UDFAs fit into the mix then? Should Guyton, Redd, and BJGE be counted as part of the Pats draft? But no picks were spent on them. So they are basically the same as free agents then, right? As you see, when you try to blur the line, than just about anybody acquired by a team could be considered in the 'draft evaluation' for the year. But muddying the waters just doesn't make sense, so let's not. Trades for players are not draft picks, even if draft ammo was expended to acquire them.

Fencer said:

2007 A so-so starter, a contributor, and a bunch of washouts

2008 A DROY and a bunch of remains-to-be-seens

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Good thread idea except I take issue w Meriweather being referred to only as a "so-so starter". He averaged 9 tackles a game at SS once Rodney went down, was the best playmaker on the defense, and probably the best player overall in the secondary.

VJCPatriot said:

Most trades in the NFL are made with draft picks because of the salary cap ramifications of trading players. So the Pats made excellent value trades to acquire Moss and Welker. But they were not draft picks, they were traded for. Those are two separate things. That's like saying the Buffalo Bills 'drafted' Drew Bledsoe. That's false. They traded a resource they had ' a 1st round draft pick' for a veteran player. True.

Do we evaluate free agent acquisitions as part of the draft? No. Why? Just because no draft picks were spent to acquire them? Where do UDFAs fit into the mix then? Should Guyton, Redd, and BJGE be counted as part of the Pats draft? But no picks were spent on them. So they are basically the same as free agents then, right? As you see, when you try to blur the line, than just about anybody acquired by a team could be considered in the 'draft evaluation' for the year. But muddying the waters just doesn't make sense, so let's not. Trades for players are not draft picks, even if draft ammo was expended to acquire them.

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Sophistry! Such a collection of words that add up to a logical Null set. You must be an Obama apologist, in another life. Yapping and yapping and saying less than nothing.

Fact: the Pats could have used the draft choice to acquire a collegian.

Fact: the Pats could have used the draft choice to acquire a collegian who had played in the the NFL. Both types are are football players.

Fact: the players were acquired for draft choices.

The fact is, this topic is a great idea, that was poorly executed by the OP in terms of ratings by personal opinion.

What this illustrates to me is the frugal nature of spending the Patriots embark upon and the value propositon of draft selections. Not that any of this surprised anyone though!

AzPatsFan said:

Sophistry! Such a collection of words that add up to a logical Null set. You must be an Obama apologist, in another life. Yapping and yapping and saying less than nothing.

Fact: the Pats could have used the draft choice to acquire a collegian.

Fact: the Pats could have used the draft choice to acquire a collegian who had played in the the NFL. Both types are are football players.

Fact: the players were acquired for draft choices.

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Fact: Trading a pick for Randy Moss is a trade. It is not a draft choice.
Fact: Randy Moss was not in the pool of players available to be picked in the 2007 NFL amateur draft. End of discussion.

The drafts have been remarkable, you can find fault here and there, but during their current regime they have hit more than they have missed. However, for me moving up for Chad Jackson, was the only time they really screwed up. That year had Branch's holdout looming which sort forced thier hand toward the need side. But what really bothers me about that pick is that my personal binkie for that draft was G. Jennings and GB took him in our spot. Other than that they have always opperated with flexibility in mind, which has allowed them to get what they want and even replenish picks lost.