The non-Chiefs market for Cassel -- Broncos/Bucs 3-way trade? [mergedx4]

killerrob · Feb 28, 2009

Re: The non-Chiefs market for Cassel -- Broncos/Bucs 3-way trade? [mergedx3]

I really think it is a good deal. We send Cassel to a team that won't get him killed and GM that will build a team around him. We owe him that much in my opinion.

With Vrabel gone we can get a good look at what we have in Crable and Woods. Crable was a beast last preseason.

With the money that is now freed up, maybe we can get Big Vince a contract extention. Him and Vrabel would have been FA at the same time, and I think we all agree we would prefer to keep Wilfork.

Here's hoping Clay Matthews falls to us at 34

makoute · Feb 28, 2009

Re: The non-Chiefs market for Cassel -- Broncos/Bucs 3-way trade? [mergedx3]

fair catch fryar said:
Why didn't Tampa just offer up a first for Cassel straight up?

I don't know, they don't think he's worth a first, or possibly don't think he will be as good as some of us think.

FreeTedWilliams · Mar 1, 2009

We could have had pick #19 and KEPT Vrabel

From GBN:

March 1
(12:01 AM): Report Broncos to trade QB Cutler… The NFL is a buzz this night that Denver appears to willing to trade starting QB Jay Cutler. Turns out that Tampa Bay was the mystery third team in the bidding for franchised New England QB Matt Cassel whom the Patriots traded to Kansas City on Saturday. The Buccaneers reportedly proposed a deal that would have sent Cutler to Tampa Bay with Cassel going to Denver. In turn, New England would have received Tampa Bay’s top pick at the 2009 draft, the 19th overall. If he had ended up at Denver, Cassel would have been re-united with new Broncos’ head coach Josh McDaniels, who was the Patriots' offensive coordinator last season when he helped guide Cassel, a career-long backup, to an 11-5 record and an 89.4 passer rating that ranked 10th in the league. With the deal having fallen through, Denver officials are now saying that Cutler is no longer for sale, however, Cutler reportedly thinks his days in Denver are numbered.

I think the fact that the Pats were trying to dump Vrabel salary is the lynch pin to this whole KC fiasco. I don't care how you spin it, this was a horrible trade!!!

If you go by the drat trade value chart #17 is worth #34 AND #52, The Pats got fleeded.

nashvillepatsfan · Mar 1, 2009

Re: We could have had pick #19 and KEPT Vrabel

we've already been arguing about this all night in the other threads. Im too tired to argue anymore

DarrylS · Mar 1, 2009

Re: We could have had pick #19 and KEPT Vrabel

Do you really think that BB would not do what he thought was best for this team??.. this is part of a bigger plan that will not become evident until the draft.. if the Pats would have been offered a #19 for Cassel they would have taken it..

FreeTedWilliams · Mar 1, 2009

Re: We could have had pick #19 and KEPT Vrabel

DarrylS said:
Do you really think that BB would not do what he thought was best for this team??.. this is part of a bigger plan that will not become evident until the draft.. if the Pats would have been offered a #19 for Cassel they would have taken it..

No, I think that he got offered #19 AFTER he had already made the trade with KC. I think that he got caught by including Vrabel, and once he had already sent him to KC, he was stuck with this deal instead of the better one. So by trying to dump Vrabel's salary (and his 1 million dollar roster bonus) the Pats got stcuk with this deal instead of a much better one.

Patriot_in_NY · Mar 1, 2009

Re: We could have had pick #19 and KEPT Vrabel

your assuming 2 things

1) Dever would have pulled the trigger (there are conflicting reports they would have). Had they hedged even a little, the "bird in hand" KC deal could have been comprimised, leaving the Pats holding their D!cks and Cassel.

2) They wanted to keep Vrabel. I'm not sure that is the case. It might have been a PATRIOT requirement, rather than letting him walk (to the JEST, no less) with our entire defensive scheme for every situational position in his head.

Of course there is the timelyness issues that have been brought up. No way BB takes forgos a better deal for a lessor one unless 1 above is true or they already had agreed upon it (in which case a man of honor would not reneg on).

DarrylS · Mar 1, 2009

Re: We could have had pick #19 and KEPT Vrabel

FreeTedWilliams said:
No, I think that he got offered #19 AFTER he had already made the trade with KC. I think that he got caught by including Vrabel, and once he had already sent him to KC, he was stuck with this deal instead of the better one. So by trying to dump Vrabel's salary (and his 1 million dollar roster bonus) the Pats got stcuk with this deal instead of a much better one.

So your point is that hindsight is 20-20... have to believe that what the Pats did is best for the Pats.. it is a moment in time that cannot be taken back. Wait a few days and see how this whole thing pans out..

naclone · Mar 1, 2009

Re: We could have had pick #19 and KEPT Vrabel

i don't think that article says what you think it says.

what it says is, IF Denver was willing to give up Jay Cutler for Matt Cassel THEN Tampa would be willing to part with #19 (in order to get Cutler, NOT Cassel).

By all accounts, Denver was NOT willing to give up Cutler in the deal. So there's no way it happens. Because Denver didn't want to do it.

So how does that mean we got fleeded (fleeced?)

The math is right there. We absolutely could not have gotten the #19 pick for Cassel because Denver said no.

If Cassel was worth #19 to TB they would have traded for him. But they don't think he is. They think CUTLER is and thought McDaniels valued Cassel higher than they did. He doesn't.

That article is about Tampa misreading Denver's interest in Cassel, not that Cassel could have been traded for #19.

102 Pat · Mar 1, 2009

Re: We could have had pick #19 and KEPT Vrabel

Playing the "what if" isn;t going to help now. A lot of people are disappointed that Vrabel is gone (my wife was angry as she is a huge Vrabel fan) but it's a reality in sports.

I can see it now if that draft pick we got makes a immediate impact a la Mayo this year there will be the inevitable threads of "Great trade by BB, etc"
when some posters were questioning BB's move....

Patriot_in_NY · Mar 1, 2009

Re: We could have had pick #19 and KEPT Vrabel

102 Pat said:
Playing the "what if" isn;t going to help now. A lot of people are disappointed that Vrabel is gone (my wife was angry as she is a huge Vrabel fan) but it's a reality in sports.

I can see it now if that draft pick we got makes a immediate impact a la Mayo this year there will be the inevitable threads of "Great trade by BB, etc"
when some posters were questioning BB's move....

Actually, draft pick aside....... if the freed up cash give us the "juice" to get Big Vince on the books for many more years then I'm more then fine. A Pusluzny (??) type pick (who also went #34) would just be fine as well.

fair catch fryar · Mar 1, 2009

Re: We could have had pick #19 and KEPT Vrabel

Do teams try to torpedo other possible trades in the NFL like they do in other sports? Whether this is true or not, you sometimes have to wonder if other teams would collaborate in order stop a possible trade or transaction to stick NE or any other team for that matter in a pickle meaning that NE would be handcuffed to their salary cap # had they been unable to unload Cassel. The whole trade seems to have gone down rather quickly in order to create more cap space and take the best offer at the time.

Theplayer · Mar 1, 2009

Re: We could have had pick #19 and KEPT Vrabel

the whole thing doesn't make sense to me..All the bidders for Cassell should have bee called and best offers received...especially when Belichick had the #34 in hand. You have to assume that this was done...but if it was, why would teams jump in after the fact?...and why was Vrabel leaked a day before the final deal?

fair catch fryar · Mar 1, 2009

Re: We could have had pick #19 and KEPT Vrabel

Theplayer said:
the whole thing doesn't make sense to me..All the bidders for Cassell should have bee called and best offers received...especially when Belichick had the #34 in hand. You have to assume that this was done...but if it was, why would teams jump in after the fact?...and why was Vrabel leaked a day before the final deal?

Exactly, why wouldn't TB just offer their 1st pick straight up for Cassel? At this point I would think he would be a more attractive option to them than Cutler.

DarrylS · Mar 1, 2009

Re: We could have had pick #19 and KEPT Vrabel

The reality is that any team can say anything after the deal is consummated.... the Jets could come out and say they offered two #1's.. things are sometimes said to discredit the Pats... in the long run this move will prove to be brilliant.

ctpatsfan77 · Mar 1, 2009

Re: We could have had pick #19 and KEPT Vrabel

fair catch fryar said:
Exactly, why wouldn't TB just offer their 1st pick straight up for Cassel? At this point I would think he would be a more attractive option to them than Cutler.

Because, of course, you're assuming that every team is a rational actor. They're not.

upstater1 · Mar 1, 2009

Re: We could have had pick #19 and KEPT Vrabel

fair catch fryar said:
Exactly, why wouldn't TB just offer their 1st pick straight up for Cassel? At this point I would think he would be a more attractive option to them than Cutler.

Why is that?

upstater1 · Mar 1, 2009

Re: We could have had pick #19 and KEPT Vrabel

The thing that makes this speculation preposterous is that people are assuming cutler is only worth a single first rounder. No, QBs in the NFL are NOT that easy to find. No way.

Denver was listening because they were waiting for someone to say, you get Cassel AND a #1 pick next year from Tampa.

PATSNUTme · Mar 1, 2009

Re: We could have had pick #19 and KEPT Vrabel

Many of us got taken in but the media "reports" of Cassels value since the end of the season.

Once again, BB would not let friendship or fondness for players get in his way of making the best deal he could for the NE Patriots. His history proves that.

Now reports in the media surface that other, better deals were waiting and BB passed them up. Hard for me to believe.

Patjew · Mar 1, 2009

Re: We could have had pick #19 and KEPT Vrabel

FreeTedWilliams said:
From GBN:

March 1
(12:01 AM): Report Broncos to trade QB Cutler… The NFL is a buzz this night that Denver appears to willing to trade starting QB Jay Cutler. Turns out that Tampa Bay was the mystery third team in the bidding for franchised New England QB Matt Cassel whom the Patriots traded to Kansas City on Saturday. The Buccaneers reportedly proposed a deal that would have sent Cutler to Tampa Bay with Cassel going to Denver. In turn, New England would have received Tampa Bay’s top pick at the 2009 draft, the 19th overall. If he had ended up at Denver, Cassel would have been re-united with new Broncos’ head coach Josh McDaniels, who was the Patriots' offensive coordinator last season when he helped guide Cassel, a career-long backup, to an 11-5 record and an 89.4 passer rating that ranked 10th in the league. With the deal having fallen through, Denver officials are now saying that Cutler is no longer for sale, however, Cutler reportedly thinks his days in Denver are numbered.

I think the fact that the Pats were trying to dump Vrabel salary is the lynch pin to this whole KC fiasco. I don't care how you spin it, this was a horrible trade!!!

If you go by the drat trade value chart #17 is worth #34 AND #52, The Pats got fleeded.

There are some big "ifs" in there that make this much less than a definite done deal that was not done.

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