Patfans Draft Forum mock thread -Feb 2009

dryheat44 said:

Alphonso Smith was the guy for me. I would have loved to take one of Britton, Beatty, or Jason Smith there, but I'd hope one lasted long enough to be within reach of a trade up. Sintim gave me great pause, but I was hoping he'd last long enough to be within reach of a trade-up also (don't know which way I'd go, forced to choose). However, in the end, Smith looks to provide the most bang for the buck at that slot considering the depth of the relative positions....I also feel he's probably the only player available that could come in as a starter in September 2009.

I like Ziggy Hood as the rare body-type athlete in the second if Sintim or one of the OTs are unavailable. This is where the Matt Cassel trade will be key. Another pick in the late first or early second would net Sintim or Britton/Beatty/Smith in addition to Smith.

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Hood is not a 5-technique DE, he is a 3-technique DT.

Box_O_Rocks said:

I concur that NFL Draft Scout isn't appreciating some of these folks enough, but they are catching onto Gilbert's value and have recently moved him up a round.

Matthews is okay, but I expect you'll be switching Matthews and Gilbert as we get closer to the draft.

I'd be ecstatic if Delmas actually lasted to NE at 58.

Barnes profile didn't quite sell me, usually it's something like a tackling flag, but I do remember scratching him after reading his profile.

Kory Sheets was looking good until I go to the end of his profile and read a note about him throwing team mates under the bus...

I agree, Potter is going to rise after his Pro-Day, he's looking like a good late round 3-4 DE for NE who could become another Mike Wright.

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I didn't read that on Sheets, also like RB Mike Goodson from Texas A&M.

patchick said:

For me, I was surprised to find that the big tipping-point decision was about defensive ends. I'd expect one of Sintim, English, Barwin etc. to be around in the 2nd; likewise one of the CBs, OGs and safties. Pick up another 2nd in a Cassel trade, be flexible about trading up with later picks, and you should be in good shape. But at DE it's starting to look like Jackson, Gilbert or bust, and given the number of teams likely in the 3-4 DE market I expect Gilbert to rise very fast.

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Here's a list of 5-technique, 3-4 DEs from NFP's Bunting, his rankings below:
The National Football Post | NFP Prospect Position Rankings

3-4 DEFENSIVE ENDS

1. Jarron Gilbert, San Jose State (6-5, 287)

2. Tyson Jackson, LSU (6-4, 295)

3. Everette Pedescleaux, Northern Iowa (6-6, 305)

4. Ra’Shon Harris, Oregon (6-4, 300)

5. Kyle Moore, USC (6-5, 273)

6. Zach Potter, Nebraska (6-7, 277)

7. Pannel Egboh, Stanford (6-6, 272)

8. Khalif Mitchell, East Carolina (6-5, 317)

9. Jeremy Navarre, Maryland (6-3, 285)

10. Bobby Greenwood, Alabama (6-5, 280

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BPF said:

Here's a list of 5-technique, 3-4 DEs from NFP's Bunting, his rankings below:
The National Football Post | NFP Prospect Position Rankings

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Yeah...it's a mighty shallow group when a guy like Pedescleaux, who's a classic "intriguing project," ranks so high. That's why DE strikes me as a key decision point from a draft management perspective. If you feel it's important to take a first step toward restocking DEs for 2010, then Jackson & Gilbert have to be serious round-1 targets. There's a sharper dropoff in that position than CB, S, OLB, OG, etc.

patchick said:

Yeah...it's a mighty shallow group when a guy like Pedescleaux, who's a classic "intriguing project," ranks so high. That's why DE strikes me as a key decision point from a draft management perspective. If you feel it's important to take a first step toward restocking DEs for 2010, then Jackson & Gilbert have to be serious round-1 targets. There's a sharper dropoff in that position than CB, S, OLB, OG, etc.

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Stocking for 2010 has to be one of the priorities in the upcoming

draft. For this reason, I think the Patriots will retain most of their

draft choices. They need to find a defensive lineman and an offensive

lineman because they stand to lose three players at each of these

positions after 2009.

patchick said:

Yeah...it's a mighty shallow group when a guy like Pedescleaux, who's a classic "intriguing project," ranks so high. That's why DE strikes me as a key decision point from a draft management perspective. If you feel it's important to take a first step toward restocking DEs for 2010, then Jackson & Gilbert have to be serious round-1 targets. There's a sharper dropoff in that position than CB, S, OLB, OG, etc.

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You never want to reach but it's a great point and has to be a key factor in the decision making process.

I'd like to participate but...are the Pats selecting at #120 or #124? Same with 151 vs 158, etc. No one's mentioned the discrepancy, and most here seem to be choosing the latter.

PATSNUTme said:

Here are the Patriots picks as of now.
PATRIOTS 23 47 58 89 120 151 186 217

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Box_O_Rocks said:

1.1- #23
2.2- #47 (SD)
3.2- #58
4.3- #89
5.3- #97 (Comp) Samuel
6.4- #124
7.4- #136 (Comp) Stallworth
8.5- #158
9.5- #167 (Comp) Gay
10.6- #192
11.7- #230

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Seneschal2 said:

I'd like to participate but...are the Pats selecting at #120 or #124? Same with 151 vs 158, etc. No one's mentioned the discrepancy, and most here seem to be choosing the latter.

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Nut's numbers are straight Patriot picks with no attempt to guess comp picks. I went into OExhaulted1's thread on Patriot picks where he used data from AdamJT13's past discussions to project comp picks. I like using the comp pick numbers since it makes me think about values and trades, even if I don't do a trade.

BPF said:

Hood is not a 5-technique DE, he is a 3-technique DT.

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Wilfork wasn't a two-gap NT, he was 1-tech or 3-tech at Miami. I'm not high on Hood either, Pereria Jerry looks to be physically stronger for stacking an OL, but Hood in the second might not be a bad choice if you believe DE is a need and he has the strength.

1.1- #23: Clint Sintim OLB Virginia
2.2- #47 (SD): Darius Butler CB Connecticut
3.2- #58: Javon Ringer RB Michigan State
4.3- #89: Chip Vaughn SS Wake Forest
5.3- #97 (Comp) Samuel: Travis Beckum TE Wisconsin
6.4- #124: Zack Follett OLB California
7.4- #136 (Comp) Stallworth: Cornelius Lewis OT Tennessee State
8.5- #158: Alex Boone OT Ohio State
9.5- #167 (Comp) Gay: Graham Harrell QB Texas Tech
10.6- #192: Michael Bennett DE Texas A&M
11.7- #230: Sammie Stroughter WR Oregon State

Pick 23: Vontae Davis CB Illinois

Pick 47: Paul Kruger DE Utah

Pick 58: Victor Harris Virginia Tech

Pick 89: Chip Vaughn SS Wake Forest

Pick: 120: Zack Follett OLB California

Pick 151: Frantz Joseph ILB Florida Atlantic

Pick 186: Andrew Gardner OT Georgia Tech

Pick 217: Davon Drew TE East Carolina

I am not an expert...

#23- Alphonso Smith, CB, Wake Forest
#47- Connor Barwin, DE/OLB, Cincinnati
#58- Louis Delmas, FS, Western Michigan
#89- Trevor Canfield, OG, Cincinnati
#97- Rashad Johnson, FS, Alabama
#124- Bear Pascoe, TE, Fresno State
#136- Matt Shaughnessy, DE, Wisconsin
#158- Patrick Turner, WR, USC
#167- Quinn Johnson, FB, LSU
#192- Deon Butler, WR, Penn State
#230- Antonio Appleby, ILB, Virginia

Box_O_Rocks said:

Wilfork wasn't a two-gap NT, he was 1-tech or 3-tech at Miami. I'm not high on Hood either, Pereria Jerry looks to be physically stronger for stacking an OL, but Hood in the second might not be a bad choice if you believe DE is a need and he has the strength.

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In my eyes Hood doesn't fit because he's no stout at the point, he has good lateral quickness and quickness but lacks power. Hood, 6-3 289, would be like J.Green outside, more of a penetrator. Jerry is more like Wilfork but if you're looking for a better fit for the Pats insider I'd go w/Brace.

BPF said:

In my eyes Hood doesn't fit because he's no stout at the point, he has good lateral quickness and quickness but lacks power. Hood, 6-3 289, would be like J.Green outside, more of a penetrator. Jerry is more like Wilfork but if you're looking for a better fit for the Pats insider I'd go w/Brace.

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No question, though I wasn't thinking of either at NT. As DE prospects go I'd take Gilbert and Jackson ahead of Jerry and Hood. Brace is the #1 NT on my board (excluding Raji whom I expect to be long gone).

BPF said:

I didn't read that on Sheets, also like RB Mike Goodson from Texas A&M.

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In his RB preview today, NFP's Bunting has Sheets as the 2nd best 3rd down back and Goodson and his #1 sleeper.

The National Football Post | Running Back Attribute Rankings

Third Down Backs
1. Devin Moore, Wyoming
2. Kory Sheets, Purdue

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Sleepers
1. Mike Goodson, Texas A&M

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Box_O_Rocks said:

No question, though I wasn't thinking of either at NT. As DE prospects go I'd take Gilbert and Jackson ahead of Jerry and Hood. Brace is the #1 NT on my board (excluding Raji whom I expect to be long gone).

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The more I've watched him, the less I think Raji is a nose. More like a really stout 3 technique guy. I mean, he could play the nose, most likely in a 4-3 where he'd be asked to occupy blockers and shoot the gap occasionally, but he doesn't look like a two-gapper to me. Maybe he can do it, but if you're looking for a two-gap 3-4 nose in this draft, Brace is the best bet.

Richter said:

The more I've watched him, the less I think Raji is a nose. More like a really stout 3 technique guy. I mean, he could play the nose, most likely in a 4-3 where he'd be asked to occupy blockers and shoot the gap occasionally, but he doesn't look like a two-gapper to me. Maybe he can do it, but if you're looking for a two-gap 3-4 nose in this draft, Brace is the best bet.

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If Raji consistently gets off the snap quickly and gets his hands up before the Center can get into him he'd do just fine, but I'd also rather have Brace or take a late round flyer on Knighton.

I would love to pick up Moore in the 2nd. He is extremely fast

For the historic record... this one lists who I want, not who I think the Patriots will pick... big difference.

2/15/2009 - Pre-combine

1.1- #23 - Tyson Jackson - replaces Wright, insurance for Seymour
2.2- #47 (SD) - Coye Francies
3.2- #58 - Kraig Urbik - backup guard, RT potential
4.3- #89 - Chip Vaughn - special teams with starting potential down the road
5.3- #97 (Comp) - Trevor Canfield, OG, Cincinnati - keep the depth going at O Line
6.4- #124 - Kevin Ellison, SS, USC - special teams, OLB in nickel, SS versus run
7.4- #136 (Comp) - Frantz Joseph - more STs, 4th ILB
8.5- #158 - Ryan Purvis, TE, Boston College - nothing fancy, 5 yards at a time, good blocker
9.5- #167 (Comp) - Arian Foster, RB, Tenn. - always thought this guy was under rated
10.6- #192 - Lee Robinson - another binkie, potential backup at all LB positions, special teams
11.7- #230 - Bradley Flecther, CB/S, Iowa - Spann type player, special teams some ability to play as a bigger CB or as a FS


More of the double up theory, half these guys will get cut. Leaving at least one player at each needy position.

KevinFaulk-33 said:

I am not an expert...

#23- Alphonso Smith, CB, Wake Forest
#47- Connor Barwin, DE/OLB, Cincinnati
#58- Louis Delmas, FS, Western Michigan
#89- Trevor Canfield, OG, Cincinnati
#97- Rashad Johnson, FS, Alabama
#124- Bear Pascoe, TE, Fresno State
#136- Matt Shaughnessy, DE, Wisconsin
#158- Patrick Turner, WR, USC
#167- Quinn Johnson, FB, LSU
#192- Deon Butler, WR, Penn State
#230- Antonio Appleby, ILB, Virginia

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Damn, this is a good draft. The only flaw I could see is no potential depth added to the D line. If this included someone like Sammie Hill and Pedelesceaux or Potter, I think it would be near perfect in my eyes.