If you were Cassel (is it legal?)

kencc said:

How about signing him to a 2-3 year contract in the $8 million range per year with conditions that he has the right to veto any trade

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Why should he take $5 or 6 million less per year than he is worth when he can get injured on the first play of any season?

Re: If you were Cassell (is it legal?)

Gumby said:

The $1M signing bonus would be cash in hand. non-refundable.

A Franchise Tag is 100% salary: i.e. he doesnt see it til the season starts and he gets it in game checks. If he gets hurt - he doesn t get a game check.

Either way at his new destination Cassel gets whatever contract & SB he negotiates but rest is a choice between:

A. Franchise tag for NO MONEY that he will ever see and NO CHOICE IN DESTINATION.

versus

B. $1M cash in hand, and a vote on destination. (again with a contract negotiated with the new team for the "big payday" same as in choice 1)

he gets 2 beenies for helping out the Pats who groomed him to be the player he is. Who else was going to draft let alone play a QB with exactly 0 starts in college. I know most would be mercenary about it; but could be he feels a little bit of loyalty due back.

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You've been amply corrected on the small detail that a tag salary is guaranteed by the CBA. And, on the free market, Matt will be able to choose his own destination. And, there will be several good teams with good traditions looking for a QB next year.

I think this is all academic. The Pats are going to tag him, see how TB's knee is progressing and then either carry two huge QB salaries or make a very tough decision.

Sparky Anderson: Just give me 25 guys on the last year of their contracts; I'll win a pennant every year.

Translation: Ca Ching for Cassel.

PatsFanSince74 said:

Why should he take $5 or 6 million less per year than he is worth when he can get injured on the first play of any season?

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Because Cassel isn't worth 12-14 million a year like you are suggesting. Lets get real here, people. The reality is that Cassel has 1 year of starting under his belt. He's got a 10-5 record as a starter. He showed steady progression from game 1 through game 16. Some of it was due to the O-line playing better after week 6. Some of it was the running game getting better. And some had to do with the talent around him.

Reality is that Cassel isn't going to get contract offer that pays him $12-14 million a season. And he knows that. The reality is that he'll get a contract in the 3-5 year range that pays him a total of $21 to $40 million in total with approximately $9-20 million of it guaranteed. Cassel isn't going to get a 10 year deal worth 160 million. Its not happening.

DaBruinz said:

Because Cassel isn't worth 12-14 million a year like you are suggesting. Lets get real here, people. The reality is that Cassel has 1 year of starting under his belt. He's got a 10-5 record as a starter. He showed steady progression from game 1 through game 16. Some of it was due to the O-line playing better after week 6. Some of it was the running game getting better. And some had to do with the talent around him.

Reality is that Cassel isn't going to get contract offer that pays him $12-14 million a season. And he knows that. The reality is that he'll get a contract in the 3-5 year range that pays him a total of $21 to $40 million in total with approximately $9-20 million of it guaranteed. Cassel isn't going to get a 10 year deal worth 160 million. Its not happening.

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Rather than look at the long run, so to speak, why not focus on, say, the first three years? For comparison, Matt Schaub's 6/$48M included $20M in the first three years; I'm not sure about Aaron Rodgers' 6/$60M.

DaBruinz said:

Because Cassel isn't worth 12-14 million a year like you are suggesting. Lets get real here, people. The reality is that Cassel has 1 year of starting under his belt. He's got a 10-5 record as a starter. He showed steady progression from game 1 through game 16. Some of it was due to the O-line playing better after week 6. Some of it was the running game getting better. And some had to do with the talent around him.

Reality is that Cassel isn't going to get contract offer that pays him $12-14 million a season. And he knows that. The reality is that he'll get a contract in the 3-5 year range that pays him a total of $21 to $40 million in total with approximately $9-20 million of it guaranteed. Cassel isn't going to get a 10 year deal worth 160 million. Its not happening.

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I don't think this "reality" has been established one way or the other. It's not just a question of how good Cassel is, it's about who else is out there (both in FA and the draft) and how many teams need a quarterback. IF the Pats allow Cassel to become a UFA, there should be an flood of bidders pushing his value sky-high. Because if you're looking for a long-term solution at the QB position who will be ready to start from day 1, who else is there?

Perhaps it's me, and I'm too stupid to see it. But I really do not think the "tag and trade" is something that all that realistic. It could be a really risky (and expensive) gamble. BB didn't get where he has by just throwing dice at the wall.

I think if we franchise him........... I go into panic mode, because it means they know something that we all don't about TFB. That would scare me.

If I'm right, and they just let him into FA. I'm likewise relieved, because that tells me all I need to know about Brady

I just find it hard to believe they'd risk that kinda $$ on Cassel if TFB was gonna be playing. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate everything Cassel did this season, but risking 14M, just "hopefully" squeeze and extra 1st ????

Perhaps I'm missing something.

DaBruinz said:

Because Cassel isn't worth 12-14 million a year like you are suggesting. Lets get real here, people. The reality is that Cassel has 1 year of starting under his belt. He's got a 10-5 record as a starter. He showed steady progression from game 1 through game 16. Some of it was due to the O-line playing better after week 6. Some of it was the running game getting better. And some had to do with the talent around him.

Reality is that Cassel isn't going to get contract offer that pays him $12-14 million a season. And he knows that. The reality is that he'll get a contract in the 3-5 year range that pays him a total of $21 to $40 million in total with approximately $9-20 million of it guaranteed. Cassel isn't going to get a 10 year deal worth 160 million. Its not happening.

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What Matt is "worth" is what some team will pay him (and I never mentioned a 10 year deal--I think three to five is realistic). So, each of us is only speculating on the number.

My view is that there are enough teams out there desperate for a QB to put them over the top or desperate to build some fan interest in a desultory franchise that his value is going to end up closer to my range than your range. If I had to bet, I'd say three to five years in the $30 to $50 range with incentives and big guarantees.

But, as with all discussions of this nature, one of us will be proven "right" and one, "wrong," unless, of course the Pats tag him in which case we will only know for sure that he was worth $13 or 14 mill for at least one season.

patchick said:

I don't think this "reality" has been established one way or the other. It's not just a question of how good Cassel is, it's about who else is out there (both in FA and the draft) and how many teams need a quarterback. IF the Pats allow Cassel to become a UFA, there should be an flood of bidders pushing his value sky-high. Because if you're looking for a long-term solution at the QB position who will be ready to start from day 1, who else is there?

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well said. i agree 100%.

Matt's "value" will be determined by market forces, which look very favorable to him right now. If he'd "come out" in another year, the number might have been lower, but I see this as a big payday, definitely eight figures per annum with substantial upfront and guaranteed money.

Even tho he's only started for one season, he is a known commodity with an impressive pedigree. He has been trained by two of the best in the College and Pro game; pete carroll has said that Leinart had to fight for his job every season and that the difference between the two is minimal; what he's learned from Belichick is clear.

The more we look at it, the more the comparisons with Brady are a little spooky, given that each was shortchanged in his college career.

Re: If you were Cassell (is it legal?)

Miguel said:

Why has not he sign such a deal already???

I would answer that it was not in his best interest.

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Miguel, how much under the cap were the Pats this year?
Is it prudent/legal to have given Matt a HUGE raise this year with a few years extension for a $1mil per year? That would give him the money he deserves up front and give the Pats flexibility in the next year as they try and find a 'home' for him. All the while, not killing their cap space in upcoming years.

I will presume that the team expects Brady to lead the leam in 2009.

MY NOTION OF FRANCHISE AND TRADE
1) Tag Cassel
2) Allow Cassel's agent to discuss deals and have the teams to present to the patriots. The agent would understand what is acceptable to the patriots. The patriots would understand what is acceptable to Cassel. This will work only with few restrictions.
3) Teams would make offers to the patriots (prequalified by Cassel).
4) When a deal acceptable to the patriots, the patriots would remove the tag for the acceptable compensation from the team.
5) Cassel would execute a contract with the agreed upon team.

I may have the mechanics wrong. Howver, the key is that Cassel and the patriots must work together to get good value for all. After all, Cassel can opt out of the process at any time by signing the tag and getting $14M for being a backup in 2009. No team (not pre-approved) will give the patriots the required two first round choices in order to have Cassel's services for one year.

Patriot_in_NY said:

Perhaps it's me, and I'm too stupid to see it. But I really do not think the "tag and trade" is something that all that realistic. It could be a really risky (and expensive) gamble. BB didn't get where he has by just throwing dice at the wall.

I think if we franchise him........... I go into panic mode, because it means they know something that we all don't about TFB. That would scare me.

If I'm right, and they just let him into FA. I'm likewise relieved, because that tells me all I need to know about Brady

I just find it hard to believe they'd risk that kinda $$ on Cassel if TFB was gonna be playing. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate everything Cassel did this season, but risking 14M, just "hopefully" squeeze and extra 1st ????

Perhaps I'm missing something.

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If the team is uncertain about TB's future....why not just tag Cassel and put TB on the PUP for the first 6 weeks of the season?

If TB really wants to come back, he will rehab until that comes to fruition. The extra 6 weeks would be invaluable so he can really test that leg, and determine if he is truly ready or not.

This would require that $14M of cap room for Cassel wouldn't be available. Your plan could happen, but it is expensive. Also, there would be little reason to have Brady on the PUP list.

LuRkeR1978 said:

If the team is uncertain about TB's future....why not just tag Cassel and put TB on the PUP for the first 6 weeks of the season?

If TB really wants to come back, he will rehab until that comes to fruition. The extra 6 weeks would be invaluable so he can really test that leg, and determine if he is truly ready or not.

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Re: If you were Cassell (is it legal?)

PittPatriot said:

Miguel, how much under the cap were the Pats this year?

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The Pats have been under the cap by at least $3 million all season.

Is it prudent/legal to have given Matt a HUGE raise this year with a few years extension for a $1mil per year?

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December 27 was the deadline to do anything that would count against the 2008 cap.

mgteich said:

I will presume that the team expects Brady to lead the leam in 2009.

MY NOTION OF FRANCHISE AND TRADE
1) Tag Cassel
2) Allow Cassel's agent to discuss deals and have the teams to present to the patriots. The agent would understand what is acceptable to the patriots. The patriots would understand what is acceptable to Cassel. This will work only with few restrictions.
3) Teams would make offers to the patriots (prequalified by Cassel).
4) When a deal acceptable to the patriots, the patriots would remove the tag for the acceptable compensation from the team.
5) Cassel would execute a contract with the agreed upon team.

I may have the mechanics wrong. Howver, the key is that Cassel and the patriots must work together to get good value for all. After all, Cassel can opt out of the process at any time by signing the tag and getting $14M for being a backup in 2009. No team (not pre-approved) will give the patriots the required two first round choices in order to have Cassel's services for one year.

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The good news there is that the Pats hold the trump card: Playing time. We could tell MC if he tries to screw us by signing the tag we'll just let him sit and rot for a year. Huge waste of money but I don't think he'd give up 50 mill over a long period for 14 over a short.

NovaScotiaPatsFan said:

The good news there is that the Pats hold the trump card: Playing time. We could tell MC if he tries to screw us by signing the tag we'll just let him sit and rot for a year. Huge waste of money but I don't think he'd give up 50 mill over a long period for 14 over a short.

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The ONLY reason that might work is supply/demand. Remember--Schaub "torched the Pats" early in 2005 and got his big deal after the 2006 season was in the books. . . .

NovaScotiaPatsFan said:

The good news there is that the Pats hold the trump card: Playing time. We could tell MC if he tries to screw us by signing the tag we'll just let him sit and rot for a year. Huge waste of money but I don't think he'd give up 50 mill over a long period for 14 over a short.

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So $14 million to practice, exercise and not risk any injury.

I don't think a year as the backup would really lower his market value as a FA in 2010 then it would be as a FA in 2009. (at least not by $14 million)

We either franchise MC or lose him to the Jets.

bradybeliever said:

We either franchise MC or lose him to the Jets.

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Not so.

The Jets are all about PSLs. Woody's attempt to auction off the PSLs, so necessary to fund the new stadium, has been a failure. Johnson needs a big high profile name to sell those pricey PSLs, thus Brett Favre. I'll bet that Farve's chafing under Eric The Rat got Mangini fired as much as anything. Woody wants Favre back next year and most of all he wants a high profile coach like Cowher. Don't think he'll get Cowher although he'll make him a huge offer.

PatsWickedPissah said:

Not so.

The Jets are all about PSLs. Woody's attempt to auction off the PSLs, so necessary to fund the new stadium, has been a failure. Johnson needs a big high profile name to sell those pricey PSLs, thus Brett Favre. I'll bet that Farve's chafing under Eric The Rat got Mangini fired as much as anything. Woody wants Favre back next year and most of all he wants a high profile coach like Cowher. Don't think he'll get Cowher although he'll make him a huge offer.

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also, the jets are over the cap even if they cut favre..........they're not handing a bunch of money to anyone next season