Cassel's stock and tag+trade-ability level...

Mogamedogz said:

I have been bodybuilding for 10 years. I could gain 20lbs of muscle in 7 months without any problem at all. I am currently 170lbs, getting up to 190 would be cake with a clean diet and strict training. I can gain/lose weight rather easily, because I know my body so well. I dont know where you got your 1-2 lbs of lean muscle per month estimate from, but TBH, that's kind of laughable IMO.

As for Brady, your are right. Muscle memory, a nutritionist to prepare his meals, and a S&C coach is all he needs. He could realistically be up 15-20 lbs in 10 weeks (BF & muscle) without any trouble, so long as he is physically able to train.

Click to expand...

Precisely. His muscle recovery curve would beat an ordinary fit person's because (1) I assert that he is an extraordinarily motivated individual who does not want to pis away a 2nd season of prime and (2) he will have resources at his disposal 24/7 that no ordinary bodybuilder or rehab candidate has.

I once nearly halved a rehab schedule on a minor bone break because I did everything asked and I had PT design a program for me that was safe but required extraordinary dedication way beyond what they ordinarily did. It was painful but I enjoyed it. If a slacker like me can beat the nominal times think what a force like Tom HOF Brady can do.

JediMind said:

You obviously have great knowledge of the subject, and i'm not trying to argue with you, but you obviously didn't fully understand my post. The average joe can't expect the 1-2lbs a month with dedication. Some have better genetics and more drive therefore will achieve more.

Of course i wasn't aware you were a 10 year BB'er who must be extremely cut at 170. I'm sure you could put on 20 lbs in 7 months cause you have probably been there or at least meet the criteria of my last post.

Your post makes it seem like you could be 300 pounds of pure muscle in 3 years if you want.

Click to expand...

Sorry, I didn’t mean to come off as argumentitive. I guess I just overlooked the “Joe the Couch Potato” scenario you laid out, because that's not who we were talking about in the thread. We are talking about a professional athlete who has likely trained his entire life. Putting on/taking off weight and/or LMM is like riding a bike for people who are use to doing it.

Obviously a guy off the street who has never trained a day in his life would find the task much more difficult (nearly impossible), because they would have to change their entire way of life (not an easy task).

The bottom-line is… Brady will have no problem putting the weight back on, once he is physically able to start training. That’s all I was trying to say.

Cassel - IMO - hasn't shown the deep game accuracy that an all around good QB really needs.

I chalk that up to the different timing issues for such long routes, the difficulty in gaining protection for that period of time, and just the overall lack of experience that Cassel has.

Give him an OL that will give him the time, and give him the right coaching and experience and that will take care of itself - he's got the arm strength and can work on accuracy and timing.

But that lack of deep play ability could limit the number of teams that will pay out big money AND give up a draft pick for him. I argued a bit a few weeks ago with those who seemed to think there was no downside to tagging Cassel and attempting a trade - I think some of those same people are now realizing its not such a simple transaction.

Mogamedogz said:

Sorry, I didn’t mean to come off as argumentitive. I guess I just overlooked the “Joe the Couch Potato” scenario you laid out, because that's not who we were talking about in the thread. We are talking about a professional athlete who has likely trained his entire life. Putting on/taking off weight and/or LMM is like riding a bike for people who are use to doing it.

Obviously a guy off the street who has never trained a day in his life would find the task much more difficult (nearly impossible), because they would have to change their entire way of life (not an easy task).

The bottom-line is… Brady will have no problem putting the weight back on, once he is physically able to start training. That’s all I was trying to say.

Click to expand...

I doubted you putting on the 20lbs in 7 months, figured you were an average joe.

I have agreed all along, Brady will have no problem getting back where he was quickly.

PatsWickedPissah said:

I love the way you state conjecture as 'truth'. Based upon recovery time by other atheletes, TB should be ready for late July camp. Given that he has the best possible medical care and has shown himself to be a determined workaholic I say that the odds are he starts opening day 2009.

Click to expand...

I hope you're right, but even if Brady misses the first part of the season it wouldn't bother me at all. As long as he comes back fully healthy at some point in the season that'll work just fine.

What worries me a bit is if he's as dedicated/motivated as he's been in years past (which it's useless to even speculate about right now) and the fact that he had the foot/ankle issue last year and now this, after having had an injury-free career. And no, I don't see any "Brady is made of glass" threads being started if he can't come back right away....well I guess anything's possiible.

PatsWickedPissah said:

Uh yeah he can. In a concerted 6 month effort now that the infection is gone, most any athelete and particularly a dedicated and focused onl like Brady can build up some serious muscle. I'm amazed at how many Pats fans seriously underestimate this future HOF lock's approach to the game.

Click to expand...

OK. I know we don't like to spend time in main Board threads on this, but the subject HAS been raised...

For someone like me who doesn't live in the middle of the Boston media maelstrom, what is the latest (fact-based, not rumor-based) information about TB's condition?

Has the infection been completely knocked out? Did it damage the graft? Is his prognosis for a full recovery now viewed as very good to excellent?

PatsFanSince74 said:

OK. I know we don't like to spend time in main Board threads on this, but the subject HAS been raised...

For someone like me who doesn't live in the middle of the Boston media maelstrom, what is the latest (fact-based, not rumor-based) information about TB's condition?

Has the infection been completely knocked out? Did it damage the graft? Is his prognosis for a full recovery now viewed as very good to excellent?

Click to expand...

I admit to being completely clueless on the issue. I'm quite certain I'd have read about any new info as opposed to rumors by one media guy (I forget who) who was dire in his outlook. Nothing factual however.

JMarr said:

I hope you're right, but even if Brady misses the first part of the season it wouldn't bother me at all. As long as he comes back fully healthy at some point in the season that'll work just fine.

What worries me a bit is if he's as dedicated/motivated as he's been in years past (which it's useless to even speculate about right now) and the fact that he had the foot/ankle issue last year and now this, after having had an injury-free career. And no, I don't see any "Brady is made of glass" threads being started if he can't come back right away....well I guess anything's possiible.

Click to expand...

Worried that TB may be rehabing with Maroney? Uh-oh!!!

PatsFanSince74 said:

OK. I know we don't like to spend time in main Board threads on this, but the subject HAS been raised...

For someone like me who doesn't live in the middle of the Boston media maelstrom, what is the latest (fact-based, not rumor-based) information about TB's condition?

Has the infection been completely knocked out? Did it damage the graft? Is his prognosis for a full recovery now viewed as very good to excellent?

Click to expand...

I think no-news is good news. The infection developed in the 2nd week of October if my memory serves. That means we're about 2 months (8 weeks) from when he began battling the infection. Presumably, if the graft had failed, he would've had another surgery at this point - so, knock on wood, it looks like the surgery was a success and he's back on track. Its debatable how much the infection will set him back in terms of the timeline, but QBs have been closer to the 6 months side of the window in terms of rehabbing from ACL.

PatsWickedPissah said:

I admit to being completely clueless on the issue. I'm quite certain I'd have read about any new info as opposed to rumors by one media guy (I forget who) who was dire in his outlook. Nothing factual however.

Click to expand...

that's why i asked. the rumors down here in Giants and Jets land is that he won't be ready to play for much of 2009 (which I completely discount as wishful thinking or stupidity or both). as far as i understand it (and i know very little about this and am more than open to being corrected) the most important thing is that the infection didn't damage the graft; then, it's a matter of how good a job that surgeon did; then it's a matter of tommy's own body; then it's up to his dedication to rehab and training (the latter, of course, is not in doubt).

BradyManny2344 said:

I think no-news is good news. The infection developed in the 2nd week of October if my memory serves. That means we're about 2 months (8 weeks) from when he began battling the infection. Presumably, if the graft had failed, he would've had another surgery at this point - so, knock on wood, it looks like the surgery was a success and he's back on track. Its debatable how much the infection will set him back in terms of the timeline, but QBs have been closer to the 6 months side of the window in terms of rehabbing from ACL.

Click to expand...

"from your lips to God's ears"...i hope you're right.

BradyManny2344 said:

From our perspective, Cassel had a great game yesterday b/c it was gutsy and he did what was needed to win. But from a scout's perspective or a GM's perspective, I personally thought yesterday was not necessarily a backwards step, but not the step forward we've come to expect. He'd improved literally every game going into the Steelers game. For instance, there were games earlier in the season where he was much maligned by fans but I thought he was better in the pocket and more accurate than he was yesterday. It's all perspective and its all about the W or L - for us fans that is.

I do think he needs to play a little bit better than yesterday over the next 3 games to earn us a 1st rounder via tag and trade.

Click to expand...

yoou have to realize he didn't have welker in the 2nd half of the steelers game. that was a HUGE difference especially after seeing welker against seattle.

this is what makes the SB most painful. had they gone to welker all game it would have resulted in a victory

AzPatsFan said:

Wishful thinking is something that BB and SP DON'T do. Tom Brady will be unavailable or not the Tom Brady we all want until sometime into the next season. Sorry but that is the truth.

Click to expand...

And to think I thought it was just an opinion.

BradyManny2344 said:

I just brought this up in another thread, but I thought Cassel's performance yesterday, while good enough for the win and highlighted by a few great plays, was not his best.

Click to expand...

I thought he played better against the Steelers. Folks blame Matt Lights (lack of) blocking on Cassel, but people put a lot into stats and W/L's.

Forget about a tag & trade. Ain't gonna happen. Pats have too much class to intefere with Cassel's career after he came through big for them while earning about $400,000 this year.

They'll let him go where they want.

And no, they can't keep him. They can't afford him.

Mogamedogz said:

I could put on 20lbs of Muscle in 7 months,

Click to expand...

I could put on 7 pounds of muscle in 20 months, which is sort of the same thing. Sorta kinda ....

AzPatsFan said:

Sorry but that is the truth.

Click to expand...

Sorry, but it is just something you believe.

PatsWickedPissah said:

Uh yeah he can. In a concerted 6 month effort now that the infection is gone, most any athelete and particularly a dedicated and focused onl like Brady can build up some serious muscle. I'm amazed at how many Pats fans seriously underestimate this future HOF lock's approach to the game.

Click to expand...

I was asking a question, not underestimating Brady.

What were Kraft's words? Something about this real skinny kid carrying a pizza box...:singing:

spacecrime said:

I thought he played better against the Steelers. Folks blame Matt Lights (lack of) blocking on Cassel, but people put a lot into stats and W/L's.

Forget about a tag & trade. Ain't gonna happen. Pats have too much class to intefere with Cassel's career after he came through big for them while earning about $400,000 this year.

They'll let him go where they want.

And no, they can't keep him. They can't afford him.

Click to expand...

They didn't have the class to "interfere" with Tebucky Jones' career.

Seriously, though, you are right in that regard--I would be very, very surprised if the Pats screw Cassel over just for a draft pick. That said, this is basically uncharted waters we're in, so who knows what will happen?

[BTW--his base salary this year is $520K, IIRC, but that will probably go up by ~$100K or so b/c of the performance pay given to all players based on playing time and salary.]

ctpatsfan77 said:

Seriously, though, you are right in that regard--I would be very, very surprised if the Pats screw Cassel over just for a draft pick. That said, this is basically uncharted waters we're in, so who knows what will happen?

Click to expand...

He'll be getting about $60M with a F&T, I don't think they'll exactly be screwing him. It can be made to work for both sides.