The Official 'Trade Brady' Debate Thread - Do Not Start Another One

Grizzafted said:

No, what's perplexing is that people like you think that, given the mindset and history of Pioli and Belichick, that they aren't already entertaining this idea.

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when brady get traded ill donate 2500$ to patsfans.com

j00fek said:

when brady get traded ill donate 2500$ to patsfans.com

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I think you should save it for a writing class.

Grizzafted said:

I think you should save it for a writing class.

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sign me up!

First Off, disclaimer, I stayed on the Drew Bledsoebandwagon, up until the last 1:06 of SB XXXVI, after which, I helped Drew pack his bags.

Cassel right now, is a much better QB, than any of us thought he could be. BUT HE IS STILL NOT TOM BRADY. Brady is still only 30 or 31 years old, has at least another 6 seasons before he even begins to slide. He is signed, and is not going anywhere. In fact the Pats already have his potential replacement (O'Connell) in camp. Give O'Connell, the 4 yearas that Cassel has had and let's see.

Now I can see the argument to trading Brady to upgrade the rest of the team, but I would just not do it. Brady is just too good, and the team "trusts" in him, and if you have ever played football, guys will run through walls for a QB that they know can win the game for them.

As it stands today Cassel is going to net the Pats at the very least a 3rd round comp pick in the 2010 draft. If Cassel continues to play at this level, I think that the prudent thing would be to franchise him, if he signs the tender and they can not move him, they have all the insurance that they would need in case Brady is not healthy next year. More likley is that they trade Cassel to the Vikings, Bears, 49ers for a high draft pick(s) and all this can be done without any salary cap hits, which any trade of Brady would include.

Re: The Official Trade Brady Thread

Alk said:

Speaking of shortsighted. Has everyone completely forgotten about our former lord and savior Drew Bledsoe? I don't care what anyone says, this isn't nearly as outlandish as some are making it out to be.

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He was not MY lord and savior, nor was he Bill's. He was an inherited albatross. That's why he got traded to a team who released him two years later and benched by a playoff team 4 years later on the way to retirement - because he couldn't run a Belichick offense or anyone elses competently.

This is even more outlandish than some are making it out to be...but that just speaks to the kneejerk mentality that permeates this teams spoiled frontrunner fanbase. That Brady built.

Re: The Official Trade Brady Thread

Alk said:

Speaking of shortsighted. Has everyone completely forgotten about our former lord and savior Drew Bledsoe? I don't care what anyone says, this isn't nearly as outlandish as some are making it out to be.

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Oversimplifying the issue to trading a franchise cornerstone, sure. But Bledsoe, a player part of the establishment before he arrived, was victimized by Belichick before and after he took the reigns for the Patriots. It stands to reason Belichick saw predictable vulnerabilities in Bledsoe and did not see him as part of a championship formula. Brady did not display those weaknesses, so he went from the bottom of the barrel on the depth chart to back-up within a year.

Can Belichick be cold and calculating? Absolutely. But Belichick has unabashedly proclaimed his love of Brady's skill set and performance in big games, Brady has taken less than market to stay with the Patriots (the value consideration), and Brady, unlike Bledsoe, has shown the composure to win repeatedly in the big games. You cannot say that of Cassel, and that is a huge variable.

What value do you think Belichick places on the consistent performance necessary to win championships, and how big a gamble do you think Belichick would take on whether Cassel turns into Tony Romo and, despite decent statistics, loses playoff games on mental errors? What empirical evidence do you suspect is out there that could predict whether Cassel has that quality? I would offer my answer to that is none, and that uncertainty would factor in a huge way in a decision to make a change in franchise quarterbacks. No compensation would offset the cost of those mistakes in a playoff situation. Brady does not cost the Patriots playoffs. Playoff losses have more been attributable to his inability to offset other weaknesses.

Re: The Official Trade Brady Thread

Ian said:

I think this sums up my thoughts on this subject pretty well. I saw a thread earlier on about the fact Brady hasn't won a Super Bowl in four years. Last I checked it was the defense in Indy two years ago and the defense again last year that kept them from winning one. The AFC Championship game is even more amazing considering Brady got them there with a bunch of nobodys. I just can't get over how shortsighted people have been. This is a topic I never expected to see. Maybe hypothetically, but I've seen far too many people who are actually serious. It's almost scary.

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The difference between your view and mine though remains you can do something about it while all I can do is rail against idiocy and grow as frustrated as Patjew...not what I came here for and I increasingly ask myself why I remain...as you know many do. Only reason I can come up with so far is the alternative most persue while it self moderates idiotic football discussion better provides too few actual football threads in it's particular quest for internet community. And my personal message board addiction remains rooted in this team, as I thought yours did.

I've been one of Matt's staunchest supporters since he was drafted, and I first broached the tag and trade scenario here only to be mocked. That I'm now almost forced to root against this kid shining and point out potential flaws comparatively speaking to defend a first ballot lock HOF'ers superiority to preserve my sanity in the face of fringe groupthink lunacy is the definition of messageboard insanity.

Re: The Official Trade Brady Thread

Ian said:

I think this sums up my thoughts on this subject pretty well. I saw a thread earlier on about the fact Brady hasn't won a Super Bowl in four years. Last I checked it was the defense in Indy two years ago and the defense again last year that kept them from winning one. The AFC Championship game is even more amazing considering Brady got them there with a bunch of nobodys. I just can't get over how shortsighted people have been. This is a topic I never expected to see. Maybe hypothetically, but I've seen far too many people who are actually serious. It's almost scary.

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What's funny is if you'd look at what some people are saying, it's exactly that. There's only so much Brady can do without a good defense. I mean how much more can he do after last year? They could feasibly win another championship with a ton of offense, but its hard. Brady can't do everything, as godlike as he is.

Re: The Official Trade Brady Thread

MoLewisrocks said:

The difference between your view and mine though remains you can do something about it while all I can do is rail against idiocy and grow as frustrated as Patjew...not what I came here for and I increasingly ask myself why I remain...as you know many do. Only reason I can come up with so far is the alternative most persue while it self moderates idiotic football discussion better provides too few actual football threads in it's particular quest for internet community. And my personal message board addiction remains rooted in this team, as I thought yours did.

I've been one of Matt's staunchest supporters since he was drafted, and I first broached the tag and trade scenario here only to be mocked. That I'm now almost forced to root against this kid shining and point out potential flaws comparatively speaking to defend a first ballot lock HOF'ers superiority to preserve my sanity in the face of fringe groupthink lunacy is the definition of messageboard insanity.

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This has always been the part that drove me nuts about this site. The whole "agree with my view or you're an idiot" attitude around here. Message boards are for discussion. Hell, patsfans.com wouldn't exist if it weren't for this. If you can't handle the fact that not everyone is always going to agree with you than the internet is not the place for you. If you have such a superior football mind compared to us peons then maybe you would be better served handing your resume out to NFL organizations. Just don't forget me when you hit it big.

I just hit it big....who are you again???????

Joker said:

I just hit it big....who are you again???????

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Hey big man let me hold a dollar.

Re: The Official Trade Brady Thread

Alk said:

This has always been the part that drove me nuts about this site. The whole "agree with my view or you're an idiot" attitude around here. Message boards are for discussion. Hell, patsfans.com wouldn't exist if it weren't for this. If you can't handle the fact that not everyone is always going to agree with you than the internet is not the place for you. If you have such a superior football mind compared to us peons then maybe you would be better served handing your resume out to NFL organizations. Just don't forget me when you hit it big.

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What has always driven me nuts about the free speech contrarians here, and we've had quite a few, is they never admit they're irrational opinions were idiotic because apparently that's not a viable option since they are "entitled" to them... Rather their tack is to rail against reasoned intolerance for irrational opinions. It's not agree with me or you're an idiot. You're an idiot if you post irrational drivel for the sake of argument and can't take being called on it without hiding behind the childish right to my opinion card...

Re: The Official Trade Brady Thread

Grizzafted said:

What's funny is if you'd look at what some people are saying, it's exactly that. There's only so much Brady can do without a good defense. I mean how much more can he do after last year? They could feasibly win another championship with a ton of offense, but its hard. Brady can't do everything, as godlike as he is.

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You've taken over my position of attempting to reasonably discuss what is an obvious possibility against the hysterics on this board who don't actually want to engage in a discussion on its merits but just whine that certain things JUST SHOULDN'T BE DISCUSSED. Good luck to you.

Re: The Official Trade Brady Thread

MoLewisrocks said:

What has always driven me nuts about the free speech contrarians here, and we've had quite a few, is they never admit they're irrational opinions were idiotic because apparently that's not a viable option since they are "entitled" to them... Rather their tack is to rail against reasoned intolerance for irrational opinions. It's not agree with me or you're an idiot. You're an idiot if you post irrational drivel for the sake of argument and can't take being called on it without hiding behind the childish right to my opinion card...

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And the prime example is this one.

Re: The Official Trade Brady Thread

MoLewisrocks said:

What has always driven me nuts about the free speech contrarians here, and we've had quite a few, is they never admit they're irrational opinions were idiotic because apparently that's not a viable option since they are "entitled" to them... Rather their tack is to rail against reasoned intolerance for irrational opinions. It's not agree with me or you're an idiot. You're an idiot if you post irrational drivel for the sake of argument and can't take being called on it without hiding behind the childish right to my opinion card...

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Exactly. We are privileged to live in a country that gives us the right to spout idiotic nonsense, but some people just insist on abusing that privilege.

Re: The Official Trade Brady Thread

aluminum seats said:

You've taken over my position of attempting to reasonably discuss what is an obvious possibility against the hysterics on this board who don't actually want to engage in a discussion on its merits but just whine that certain things JUST SHOULDN'T BE DISCUSSED. Good luck to you.

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aluminum seats said:

And the prime example is this one.

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How exactly is this trade an obvious possibility? What is your inside information that you've been withholding that makes your statement accurate?

Re: The Official Trade Brady Thread

MoLewisrocks said:

What has always driven me nuts about the free speech contrarians here, and we've had quite a few, is they never admit they're irrational opinions were idiotic because apparently that's not a viable option since they are "entitled" to them... Rather their tack is to rail against reasoned intolerance for irrational opinions. It's not agree with me or you're an idiot. You're an idiot if you post irrational drivel for the sake of argument and can't take being called on it without hiding behind the childish right to my opinion card...

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I think you're being ridiculous right now. There's no group think. It looks like there's two people here floating the idea and we're making our own arguments, separate from each other. If anything its the opposite of group think.

I'm not hiding behind any "right to my opinion" card. I don't need anybody to validate my intelligence for me, thanks. I've made my points, some people have argued against them fairly well, others have been frustrated emotional idiots about it. There is a case to be made for the trade at this point, even if it doesn't happen.

I'm going to try to put it another way. Troy Aikman and Jim Kelley. These were not top-ten quarterbacks. They might not even make it into the top fifteen. On their merits, without the offenses they had, they probably wouldn't even be in the discussion. Yet both of them made numerous Super Bowl appearances due to a strong supporting cast. The Cowboys in particular built their team on this kind of trade. There is an argument you could make that, despite Brady's admittedly once-in-a-lifetime skill set, you could have another dynasty-type franchise with the kind of talent you'd be able to get out of a trade for him. If you have a quarterback who can throw for 3 TDs a game, and you do reasonably well with the seven picks you get in the first two rounds over two years, you're looking at a serious contender. Anyway this is moot until we see how he plays over the next several weeks. I expect he's going to play very well against Pittsburgh, and my guess is they'll win the game. So we'll see in January how things go.

Re: The Official Trade Brady Thread

Deus Irae said:

How exactly is this trade an obvious possibility? What is your inside information that you've been withholding that makes your statement accurate?

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The point is that discussing the issue of the potential long-term worth of Cassel vs. a 32-year-old qb coming off major surgery—even if he’s the greatest qb of all-time—is a perfectly reasonable and legitimate point of discussion, one that the Cold Hard Football Facts went into some detail on. The hysteria by the—nitwits, morons, idiots, mouth-breathers—board members who have seizures when the idea is raised has been embarrassing.

Grizzafted said:

I think you're being ridiculous right now. There's no group think. It looks like there's two people here floating the idea and we're making our own arguments, separate from each other. If anything its the opposite of group think.

I'm not hiding behind any "right to my opinion" card. I don't need anybody to validate my intelligence for me, thanks. I've made my points, some people have argued against them fairly well, others have been frustrated emotional idiots about it. There is a case to be made for the trade at this point, even if it doesn't happen.

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Other than "Maybe the Patriots front office is peopled completely with idiots", there is no case to be made for the trade.

Re: The Official Trade Brady Thread

aluminum seats said:

The point is that discussing the issue of the potential long-term worth of Cassel vs. a 32-year-old qb coming off major surgery—even if he’s the greatest qb of all-time—is a perfectly reasonable and legitimate point of discussion, one that the Cold Hard Football Facts went into some detail on. The hysteria by the—nitwits, morons, idiots, mouth-breathers—board members who have seizures when the idea is raised has been embarrassing.

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No, the silliness of people who are silly enough to claim that this "is a perfectly reasonable and legitimate point of discussion" is what has been embarrassing.

Even worse is that such people are so obtuse that they don't even know enough to be embarrassed.