Pioli's lousy drafts killing our roster/depth

captain stone · Oct 22, 2008

National Sports Advisors said:
2004 NFL DRAFT
1 21(21) Vince Wilfork* DT Miami (FL)
1 32(32) Benjamin Watson TE Georgia
2 31(63) Marquise Hill* DE LSU
3 32(95) Guss Scott S Florida
4 17(113) Dexter Reid S North Carolina
4 32(128) Cedric Cobbs RB Arkansas
5 32(164) P.K. Sam* WR Florida St.
7 32(233) Christian Morton CB Illinois

Summary: NONE of the players drafted after the 1st rd are even in the NFL anymore. Wilfork is a pro-bowler while Watson has never truly lived up to the hype. Grade: C+

I give it a C-/D+; choosing the non-productive but athletic Watson was a redundant luxury, and the rest (incl. Marquise, RIP) were too immature and way over-drafted.

2005 NFL DRAFT
1 32(32) Logan Mankins OG Fresno St.
3 20(84) Ellis Hobbs CB Iowa St.
3 37(100) Nick Kaczur OT Toledo
4 32(133) James Sanders S Fresno St.
5 34(170) Ryan Claridge OLB UNLV
7 16(230) Matt Cassel QB Southern Cal
7 41(255) Andy Stokes TE William Penn

Summary: Mankins is a pro-bowler while the rest of this cast is nothing special. In fact, this is the kind of draft that a TON of mediocre franchises produce year after year. Grade: C+

I give it a B; nothing special - incl. Mankins, who has regressed since the SB - but at least there are 5 players who have/had produced in the NFL.

2006 NFL DRAFT
1 21 (21) Laurence Maroney, RB, Minnesota
2 4-d (36) Chad Jackson, WR, Florida
3 22 (86) David Thomas, TE, Texas
4 9-b (106) Garret Mills, TE, Tulsa
4 21 (118) Stephen Gostkowski, K, Memphis
5 3-c (136) Ryan O'Callaghan , OT, California
6 22-* (191) Jeremy Mincey, OL/DE, Florida
6 36-* (205) Dan Stevenson, OL, Notre Dame
6 37 (206) Le Kevin Smith, NT, Nebraska
7 21 (209) Willie Andrews, CB/S, Baylor

Summary: In a one word: TERRIBLE. Outside of Gostowski, absolutely awful. Maroney has given us ok production..........if he was a 4th rounder! Not good enough for the #21 pick in the entire draft. If Bobby Grier was drafting like this we would be calling for his job. GRADE: C-

C/C- sounds about right. At the time, I was OK with the top 2 picks, while I hated the 4th- & 6th-round picks. No defense until #191? ******ed.

2007 NFL DRAFT:
1 24 (24) Brandon Meriweather S Miami (FL)
4 28 (127) Kareem Brown DT Miami (FL)
5* 34 (171) Clint Oldenburg OL Colorado State University
6 6 (180) Justin Rogers DE Southern Methodist University
6 28 (202) Mike Richardson CB Notre Dame
6* 34 (208) Justise Hairston RB Central Connecticut State
6* 35 (209) Corey Hilliard T Oklahoma State
7 1 (211) Oscar Lua ILB USC
7* 37 (247) Mike Elgin OL University of Iowa

Summary: The jury is still out on Merriweather and Richardson, but the rest of these guys aren't even in the league nevermind on our team. Again, just another mediocre AT BEST draft. GRADE: INCOMPLETE but heading towards a C or C- AT BEST.

You're being generous. This inexcusable disaster of a draft is a D-, at best.

Fellas, you can hoot and holler all you want about trading picks for the Wes Welker's and Randy Moss's of the world and I will agree. That's great. However, there's no denying that Pioli's actual draft picks the last 4 years have been mediocre at best. These guys aren't making an impact in this league on ANY team nevermind our own. So stop with the excuse that our roster is so STACKED that these picks couldn't make our team. They can't make ANY team for cris sakes! We are not getting ANYTHING of significance after the 1st rd with any of these drafts. NOTHING. The days of getting Matt Light, Deion Branch, Tom Brady, Dan Koppen, and Jarvis Green in the middle rounds are long gone. When are people going to stop kissing Pioli's backside and start holding him accountable for these MEDICORE drafts? It's getting old hearing about what a GENIUS he is. He deserved those accolades for his first 3 drafts with the club but he has really fallen off BIG TIME.

It's too late in the evening/morning to read a 120-post thread, so let me just say that I am in general agreement with NSA's premise, one which I have myself been preaching ever since last year's abomination. And after 1/3 of the season, I give this year's draft a C-; Mayo raises it from a D. Seriously, Mike Richardson ahead of Terrence Wheatley on the depth chart? No appearences from Shawn Crable? Matt Slater not returning kicks? WTF?

DaBruinz · Oct 22, 2008

National Sports Advisors said:
Exactly. That's why I don't waste my time posting anymore on this website. it's homerville and you can't criticize them at all. They are PERFECT and can do no wrong.

If you "don't waste your time posting anymore on this website" then what the hell am I replying to? OH YEAH. Another one of your idiotic posts.

You can criticize all you want. But you better be damn sure you can back it up with facts. You don't. You just spew dumbness and expect everyone to take what you're saying as gospel.

DaBruinz · Oct 22, 2008

National Sports Advisors said:
Ellis Hobbs stinks. I don't know why people keep using him as testimony for the 2005 draft. He gets picked on at will more than any other #1 corner in this league. Just because he starts does not mean he is good. It just means we have nobody better to play. In case you guys have been on an island somewhere, it's not like our backups would be starting for anyone else in this league. Hell, our #2 guy Deltha O'Neal starts and wouldn't be starting anywhere either. Face it, Hobbs starts because of a lack of talent at the position. Bottom line. Billy "I can't block a turtle" Yates was starting the last few weeks for Neal. Does that mean Yates is a good player? LOL! Some of you will make excuse after excuse for everything Belichick and Pioli do.

Hobbs doesn't stink and NO, he doesn't get picked on more than any other #1 corner in the league.

Deltha O'Neal was a starter and was cut by the Bungles. How can you say he wouldn't be starting anywhere else.

Yates is a back-up who was pressed into a starting role. See, you clearly don't understand the difference.

You can't see the forest for the trees and will make up any BS excuse to feebly attempt to make yourself look smart.

DaBruinz · Oct 22, 2008

National Sports Advisors said:
Ya he did a great job defending Buress when WE NEEDED HIM to in the final minute of the super bowl. Give me a break. The guy is terrible. For cris sakes, how many #1 corners in this league can't cover Frank Gore on a post with JT O'Sullivan throwing the ball?!? Did you miss that 3 weeks ago? Good lord.

Hobbs was playing with a sports hernia and he slipped on the play. Are you telling me that you are perfect? Damn you are ignorant.

BTW, Hobbs wasn't the one in coverage on Frank Gore on that Post route. But, far be it from you to know what you are talking about.

DaBruinz · Oct 22, 2008

National Sports Advisors said:
Umm, it's called Tom Brady, Randy Moss, Wes Welker, and company. So EVERY player on last year's team is GOOD just because we went 18-0? Absurd. You think every player on our 2001 team was good because we won the super bowl? Absurd. Am I criticizing the whole team? No. I am criticizing Pioli for the way he has handled the drafting the last 4 years. Period. Had he done a better job, than we could own at least 1 more super bowl. If Chad Jackson and Bethel Johnson weren't complete BUSTS for 2nd rd WR picks, than maybe we would have beaten the Colts in 2006 instead of watching Bug Eyes Caldwell drop easy passes to seal the win. Hey, nobody's perfect, but Pioli has been AVERAGE AT BEST the last 4 years drafting players. Just admit it.

This is a perfect example of you just making sh!t up.

1) The Patriots didn't lose in 2006 because Chad Jackson was a bust or because of the drops that Caldwell made. They lost because they lacked depth at LBer and the defense couldn't hold their own with the game on the line.

2) You are criticizing someone without providing any sort of comparison. Your expectations of the results of the draft are ludicrous at best.

A.C Vegas · Oct 22, 2008

DaB Just give up on the Doom Squad let them have there posts and dementied thoughts and arguements they don't defend. I will always remeber NSA saying that last year Maroney wouldn't run for over 100 yards in a game then did it for 2 straight games. but hey if he wants to pimp his worthless site let him

DaBruinz · Oct 22, 2008

maryjane said:
NSA, you da MAN!

Trading UP for Bethel Johnson and UP for Jackson? OMG, they SUCK. They are worse than useless. How is it possible to be that stupid? Bethel Johnson had chronic stomach problems...duh, you think they might have researched that? He sucked on his college team, minimal production. He sucked! And he sucked here, big surprise.

You, sir, have the balls to step into the lion's den and tell it like it is. THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES.

It would be nice if you actually knew what you were talking about. Better yet, please provide a reference for these supposed "chronic stomach problems" that Bethel Johnson had.

Also, if Bethel sucked in college, how is it that when he was done, he had 115 receptions for 1715 yards during his career with the Aggies? That set the record for them at the time. Not sure how you can consider that minimal production.

DaBruinz · Oct 22, 2008

National Sports Advisors said:
I was telling these people about LoMo being a BUST last september and about Big SEY being OVERRATED. For some reason people are unwilling to look at LoMo's production and realize it is AVERAGE(at best!) for the #21 overall pick in the draft. If he was a 5th rd pick, than I wouldn't be complaining. However, you waste the #21 pick in the draft on a RB that was NEVER able to carry the whole load in college? You don't draft guys in rd 1 that need to split the load with another RB. I'm sorry. Dallas drafted Barber in Rd #4. He never carried the load full time in college either. You don't draft RB's #21 in the draft unless they are capable of being a HORSE. You can find guys in rd's 3,4, and 5 that can SPLIT the load and give you LoMo's production. Good grief.

Listen. NO RB can carry the whole load in college when your offense is running more than 600 running plays a season. NONE. I proved that to you last year when I broke it down for you NUMEROUS times.

Maroney didn't NEED to split the load. And what you ignored was that he each year he increased the load that he carried. But, far be it from you to know wtf you are talking about.

DaBruinz · Oct 22, 2008

THEARCHIVES said:
Alright you asked for it. However, I will not compare the Pats to other teams because I'm only worried about the Pats and it would take forever to finish.

004 NFL DRAFT
1 21(21) Vince Wilfork* DT Miami (FL) Good pick
1 32(32) Benjamin Watson TE Georgia Has not lived up to potential
2 31(63) Marquise Hill* DE LSU This hero gets a pass
3 32(95) Guss Scott S Florida just a dumb pick at the time and I'm sure you will agree Why was he a dumb pick? Because Drew Rosenhaus was his agent? I guess you need to be reminded that there aren't any stretches or muscle excercises that you can do that will prevent your ACL from being torn when your knee is hit from the side.

4 17(113) Dexter Reid S North Carolina bad pick Why was he a bad pick? He was a solid special teamer for over a year. Horrible in coverage.
4 32(128) Cedric Cobbs RB Arkansas bad pick Why was Cobbs a bad pick at the time? What made him that?
5 32(164) P.K. Sam* WR Florida St.bad pick He was a long shot pick that they hoped would develop.
7 32(233) Christian Morton CB Illinois bad pick Only someone with no concept says that a 7th round pick is a bad pick. What made Morton a bad pick at the time?

2/8 draft picks are starters. Scott, Reid, Cobbs, Sam and Morton are not even in the NFL anymore.

2005 NFL DRAFT
1 32(32) Logan Mankins OG Fresno St. good pick
3 20(84) Ellis Hobbs CB Iowa St. I guess I will say he's a good pick
3 37(100) Nick Kaczur OT Toledo decent at best
4 32(133) James Sanders S Fresno St. decent at best
5 34(170) Ryan Claridge OLB UNLV out of the NFL
7 16(230) Matt Cassel QB Southern Cal starting by default
7 41(255) Andy Stokes TE William Penn out of the NFL

4 starters out of 7 picks with one pro bowler. This draft is ok.

ONLY OK? Well, considering that BB considers Sanders a starter and you say he's decent, I guess I can see that your talent evaluation just plain stinks.

Why don't you mention that Claridge is out due to psychological issues stemming from his brothers death?

2006 NFL DRAFT
1 21 (21) Laurence Maroney, RB, Minnesota doesn't look good Maroney has looked good when the O-line has done at least a mediocre job of run blocking. The problem, particularly this year, is that they haven't been that consistent. Yes, Maroney has had 2 injuries. Unfortunately, it looks like the shoulder injury from last year wasn't completely healed when the season started.
2 4-d (36) Chad Jackson, WR, Florida out of the NFL You need to catch up. Jackson was signed by the Broncos today.
3 22 (86) David Thomas, TE, Texas doesn't look good Thomas actually does look good as a pass catching TE.
4 9-b (106) Garret Mills, TE, Tulsa should have kept him Why? What's he doing in Minnesota that makes him so great?
4 21 (118) Stephen Gostkowski, K, Memphis good pick but could have had Brandon Marshall who went right after him Hindsight is always 20/20. I guess that's why you feel like Einstein right now and everyone sees you as Elmer Fudd.
5 3-c (136) Ryan O'Callaghan , OT, California bad pick How was he a bad pick? He came in and started when Kaczur was dinged up.
6 22-* (191) Jeremy Mincey, OL/DE, Florida probably out of the NFL Mincey is currently on Jacksonville's PUP list.
6 36-* (205) Dan Stevenson, OL, Notre Dame horrible pick How can a late 6th round pick be horrible?
6 37 (206) Le Kevin Smith, NT, Nebraska decent at best Smith is performing beyond expectations. Particularly at DE.
7 21 (209) Willie Andrews, CB/S, Baylor good on special teams before he decided to become a criminal

Out of this draft you have one starting kicker and a RB that can't stay on the field. Horrible draft.

Technically, you shouldn't be evaluating this draft until the end of this season. But, you just love being an Einstein.

2007 NFL DRAFT:
1 24 (24) Brandon Meriweather S Miami (FL) turning out to be a good pick
4 28 (127) Kareem Brown DT Miami (FL) what a joke Why is he a joke? Cause he made the team and got cut because the Patriots had injuries at other positions and needed the roster space?

5* 34 (171) Clint Oldenburg OL Colorado State University Him and Brown have something in common What do they have in common? The fact that Oldenburg is on the Rams practice squad and Brown is playing for the Jets? Or just the fact that they were cut?

6 6 (180) Justin Rogers DE Southern Methodist University another joke Why is he a joke? The Pats tried to hide him on their practice squad only to have the Cowboys pick him up. He's been an outstanding special teamer for them.
6 28 (202) Mike Richardson CB Notre Dame doesn't look good Mike Richardson looked very good for his 1st game. He saw time as the nickel back, as the dime back and in kick coverage on special teams. All in all, he had a good game.

6* 34 (208) Justise Hairston RB Central Connecticut State joke
6* 35 (209) Corey Hilliard T Oklahoma State joke On the Colts practice squad.
7 1 (211) Oscar Lua ILB USC joke
7* 37 (247) Mike Elgin OL University of Iowa joke

Merriweather looks like a keeper but overall a horrible draft.

Overall you have 10 starters out of 34 draft picks. 14 out of 34 are still with the team. You be the judge.

Well, lets see, 1 of those picks died tragically. You gave them a pass originally, yet counted him in your final tallies.

Your evaluation skills of the rest are a joke. You ding the Patriots for not having places to put guys and you can't acknowledge when other teams have picked them up. That is usually a sign that they might actually be good, but that the Pats just didn't have room for them.

You claim that picks were bad or horrible, but you don't explain why. You are clearly taking this from a HINDSIGHT perspective and not from a "Time of the Draft" perspective. And, by doing that, you make yourself out to be some kind of Einstein, when, in reality, you aren't any smarter than Elmer Fudd.

DaBruinz · Oct 22, 2008

THEARCHIVES said:
Whatever, you have your opinion and I have mine! Let's just leave it at that.

Whatever? That is the answer of someone who can't admit he lost the argument.

nashvillepatsfan · Oct 22, 2008

Joker said:
Just as stated innumerable times last night....post win ...no Snarkives, Jets Lifer,BtoB or NSA....can't vomit up their patented hate filled diatribes and thinly veiled attacks on the Patriots in the face of a 41-7 win by the banged up Pats. Nope, but just as predicted, here they are today, ripping and tearing away at anything/everything they can think of...as usual.

I've been a Patriots fan since the 60's and seen the highs and lows for decades and I've NEVER met any Patriot fan that even remotely resembles this quartet of "fans". Quite simply, they are trolls.Common, everyday useless wastes of bandwidth.

WELL SAID MR. JOKER

I think they are all witches, and should be burned at the stake.

Fencer · Oct 22, 2008

National Sports Advisors said:
2004 NFL DRAFT
1 21(21) Vince Wilfork* DT Miami (FL)
1 32(32) Benjamin Watson TE Georgia
2 31(63) Marquise Hill* DE LSU
3 32(95) Guss Scott S Florida
4 17(113) Dexter Reid S North Carolina
4 32(128) Cedric Cobbs RB Arkansas
5 32(164) P.K. Sam* WR Florida St.
7 32(233) Christian Morton CB Illinois

Summary: NONE of the players drafted after the 1st rd are even in the NFL anymore. Wilfork is a pro-bowler while Watson has never truly lived up to the hype. Grade: C+

2005 NFL DRAFT
1 32(32) Logan Mankins OG Fresno St.
3 20(84) Ellis Hobbs CB Iowa St.
3 37(100) Nick Kaczur OT Toledo
4 32(133) James Sanders S Fresno St.
5 34(170) Ryan Claridge OLB UNLV
7 16(230) Matt Cassel QB Southern Cal
7 41(255) Andy Stokes TE William Penn

Summary: Mankins is a pro-bowler while the rest of this cast is nothing special. In fact, this is the kind of draft that a TON of mediocre franchises produce year after year. Grade: C+

2006 NFL DRAFT
1 21 (21) Laurence Maroney, RB, Minnesota
2 4-d (36) Chad Jackson, WR, Florida
3 22 (86) David Thomas, TE, Texas
4 9-b (106) Garret Mills, TE, Tulsa
4 21 (118) Stephen Gostkowski, K, Memphis
5 3-c (136) Ryan O'Callaghan , OT, California
6 22-* (191) Jeremy Mincey, OL/DE, Florida
6 36-* (205) Dan Stevenson, OL, Notre Dame
6 37 (206) Le Kevin Smith, NT, Nebraska
7 21 (209) Willie Andrews, CB/S, Baylor

Summary: In a one word: TERRIBLE. Outside of Gostowski, absolutely awful. Maroney has given us ok production..........if he was a 4th rounder! Not good enough for the #21 pick in the entire draft. If Bobby Grier was drafting like this we would be calling for his job. GRADE: C-

2007 NFL DRAFT:
1 24 (24) Brandon Meriweather S Miami (FL)
4 28 (127) Kareem Brown DT Miami (FL)
5* 34 (171) Clint Oldenburg OL Colorado State University
6 6 (180) Justin Rogers DE Southern Methodist University
6 28 (202) Mike Richardson CB Notre Dame
6* 34 (208) Justise Hairston RB Central Connecticut State
6* 35 (209) Corey Hilliard T Oklahoma State
7 1 (211) Oscar Lua ILB USC
7* 37 (247) Mike Elgin OL University of Iowa

Summary: The jury is still out on Merriweather and Richardson, but the rest of these guys aren't even in the league nevermind on our team. Again, just another mediocre AT BEST draft. GRADE: INCOMPLETE but heading towards a C or C- AT BEST.

Fellas, you can hoot and holler all you want about trading picks for the Wes Welker's and Randy Moss's of the world and I will agree. That's great. However, there's no denying that Pioli's actual draft picks the last 4 years have been mediocre at best.

The first-rounders have been about half Pro Bowlers, half competent starters. That's enough to invalidate your conclusion right there, all the more considering how late in the round the picks were.

The second round has been a washout, in two tries. Not good.

The third round is 2-3 competent starters in 4 tries. For the third round, that's very good, certainly from a depth perspective.

The fourth round is a stud kicker plus a competent starter in 6 tries. Not bad.

5th-7th rounds are 3 backups in 15 tries. Not great, not catastrophic. UDFAs have been pretty decent in the same period.

RI Pats Fan · Oct 22, 2008

Having read the post and not followed with what NSA has posted in the past, I can't see the troll factor at all. If I look at some of these drafts, I start to question a lot too. It's not like anybody's infallible. Can't we have any objectivity at least?

nashvillepatsfan · Oct 22, 2008

RI Pats Fan said:
Having read the post and not followed with what NSA has posted in the past, I can't see the troll factor at all. If I look at some of these drafts, I start to question a lot too. It's not like anybody's infallible. Can't we have any objectivity at least?

go look at his history. he's not really a troll, just an annoying person

Bostonian1962 · Oct 22, 2008

National Sports Advisors said:
2004 NFL DRAFT
1 21(21) Vince Wilfork* DT Miami (FL)
1 32(32) Benjamin Watson TE Georgia
2 31(63) Marquise Hill* DE LSU
3 32(95) Guss Scott S Florida
4 17(113) Dexter Reid S North Carolina
4 32(128) Cedric Cobbs RB Arkansas
5 32(164) P.K. Sam* WR Florida St.
7 32(233) Christian Morton CB Illinois

Summary: NONE of the players drafted after the 1st rd are even in the NFL anymore. Wilfork is a pro-bowler while Watson has never truly lived up to the hype. Grade: C+

2005 NFL DRAFT
1 32(32) Logan Mankins OG Fresno St.
3 20(84) Ellis Hobbs CB Iowa St.
3 37(100) Nick Kaczur OT Toledo
4 32(133) James Sanders S Fresno St.
5 34(170) Ryan Claridge OLB UNLV
7 16(230) Matt Cassel QB Southern Cal
7 41(255) Andy Stokes TE William Penn

Summary: Mankins is a pro-bowler while the rest of this cast is nothing special. In fact, this is the kind of draft that a TON of mediocre franchises produce year after year. Grade: C+

2006 NFL DRAFT
1 21 (21) Laurence Maroney, RB, Minnesota
2 4-d (36) Chad Jackson, WR, Florida
3 22 (86) David Thomas, TE, Texas
4 9-b (106) Garret Mills, TE, Tulsa
4 21 (118) Stephen Gostkowski, K, Memphis
5 3-c (136) Ryan O'Callaghan , OT, California
6 22-* (191) Jeremy Mincey, OL/DE, Florida
6 36-* (205) Dan Stevenson, OL, Notre Dame
6 37 (206) Le Kevin Smith, NT, Nebraska
7 21 (209) Willie Andrews, CB/S, Baylor

Summary: In a one word: TERRIBLE. Outside of Gostowski, absolutely awful. Maroney has given us ok production..........if he was a 4th rounder! Not good enough for the #21 pick in the entire draft. If Bobby Grier was drafting like this we would be calling for his job. GRADE: C-

2007 NFL DRAFT:
1 24 (24) Brandon Meriweather S Miami (FL)
4 28 (127) Kareem Brown DT Miami (FL)
5* 34 (171) Clint Oldenburg OL Colorado State University
6 6 (180) Justin Rogers DE Southern Methodist University
6 28 (202) Mike Richardson CB Notre Dame
6* 34 (208) Justise Hairston RB Central Connecticut State
6* 35 (209) Corey Hilliard T Oklahoma State
7 1 (211) Oscar Lua ILB USC
7* 37 (247) Mike Elgin OL University of Iowa

Summary: The jury is still out on Merriweather and Richardson, but the rest of these guys aren't even in the league nevermind on our team. Again, just another mediocre AT BEST draft. GRADE: INCOMPLETE but heading towards a C or C- AT BEST.

Fellas, you can hoot and holler all you want about trading picks for the Wes Welker's and Randy Moss's of the world and I will agree. That's great. However, there's no denying that Pioli's actual draft picks the last 4 years have been mediocre at best. These guys aren't making an impact in this league on ANY team nevermind our own. So stop with the excuse that our roster is so STACKED that these picks couldn't make our team. They can't make ANY team for cris sakes! We are not getting ANYTHING of significance after the 1st rd with any of these drafts. NOTHING. The days of getting Matt Light, Deion Branch, Tom Brady, Dan Koppen, and Jarvis Green in the middle rounds are long gone. When are people going to stop kissing Pioli's backside and start holding him accountable for these MEDICORE drafts? It's getting old hearing about what a GENIUS he is. He deserved those accolades for his first 3 drafts with the club but he has really fallen off BIG TIME.

This post shows me that the Patriots actually have had good drafts. What you should do is go back to the drafts that you list, and see how the majority of 1st round picks "missed".

In 2004, the Pats got a Pro Bowl Caliber NT with the 21st pick. They got their starting TE with the 32nd pick. In 2005, their 5th round pick, and their second 7th round pick are the ONLY two players not currently STARTING for them. Giving that draft a C+ shows either your lack of knowledge, or your bias. You say something about players can't make the Patriots or any other team, then I see where their 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th Round picks of 2006 all made the Patriots roster this year, and you give that draft a C-, and call it horrible? Clearly you have an agenda. Their 1st Round pick in 2007 will be starting for them this week at Safety. Their second pick of that draft wasn't even until the 4th round and he plays for the Jets. Their 5th round pick Oldenburg is on the Rams roster. Their first sixth round pick is on the Cowboys roster, their second 6th round pick is on their roster, AND their last 6th round pick is on the Colts roster (THESE ARE 6TH ROUND PICKS!). The Patriots have been the dominant team for the better part of the last decade. They are typically picking near the bottom of every round, and yet they have this kind of record, AND YOU ACTUALLY CRITICIZE IT??? Bizarre post, and I don't mean any disrespect! I'd love to see which team you think did collectively better than that from 2004 thru 2007. When you pick any team, you'll figure out how these drafts normally shape up, and you'll realize the Pats are near or at the top. I challenge you to do that, and you'll see what I mean.

DaBruinz · Oct 22, 2008

RI Pats Fan said:
Having read the post and not followed with what NSA has posted in the past, I can't see the troll factor at all. If I look at some of these drafts, I start to question a lot too. It's not like anybody's infallible. Can't we have any objectivity at least?

Most of use DO have objectivity. NSA does not.

Rob0729 · Oct 22, 2008

The first-rounders have been about half Pro Bowlers, half competent starters. That's enough to invalidate your conclusion right there, all the more considering how late in the round the picks were.

I agree. I don't think there are many if any teams that hit 100% in the first round. Usually 20-30% of the top ten picks in the draft are busts. And those picks are supposed to be far greater sure things than where the Pats usually pick in the first round.

Look at other teams who had picks at the time they were selected that they were "no brainers". As bad as the Lions drafted under Millen, was it his fault that Charles Rogers was such a bust when the world thought this guy was going to be an elite WR. A guy like Robert Gallery was supposed to be the next Orlando Pace or Walter Jones and a no brainer pick. Both were second selections in the draft and no one considered either a reach when they they were selected. Most teams would have taken either of those guys if they were in the same position, but it didn't stop them from being HUGE busts.

Fencer said:
5th-7th rounds are 3 backups in 15 tries. Not great, not catastrophic. UDFAs have been pretty decent in the same period.

Well, when you consider that in the picks the Pats had in those rounds over this period that four were seventh round picks, seven were sixth round picks, and four were fifth round picks; it is actually not bad at all. The fact of the matter is sixth and seventh round picks are less than 50-50 to survive more than a year or two even on bad teams. On a really good team, the odds are far worse. The only way we could have kept all these sixth and seventh rounders were to cut veterans who are valued special teamers like Izzo, Washington, Aikens, etc.

The Boston Patriot · Oct 22, 2008

It would be very interesting what kind of a scorecard NSA (No Sports Aptitude)
would put together to grade drafts. That way we could really evaluate the
rest of the league wrt the Pats drafts. This A,B,C,... crap is useless and
subjective. Calling CHFF anyone? No Sports Aptitude's evaluation is his and
his alone (not forgetting the lemmings jumping on his internet ****wad theories).

Not safe for NSA and other under 18 year olds.
John Gabriel's Greater Internet ****wad Theory - StoneHome

Lloyd_Christmas · Oct 22, 2008

National Sports Advisors said:
2004 NFL DRAFT
2004 NFL DRAFT

Summary: NONE of the players drafted after the 1st rd are even in the NFL anymore. Wilfork is a pro-bowler while Watson has never truly lived up to the hype. Grade: C+

Wilfork is one of the best Dlinemen in the league and Watson is our starting TE. Hill was killed in a freak accident, so I give the FO a pass on that one.

National Sports Advisors said:
2005 NFL DRAFT

Summary: Mankins is a pro-bowler while the rest of this cast is nothing special. In fact, this is the kind of draft that a TON of mediocre franchises produce year after year. Grade: C+

Mankins and Hobbs are solid starters. Sanders is starting caliber too. Cassell has played well as a backup. Kaczur, although not starting caliber in my book right now, is still a good backup. They only missed on Claridge and Stokes, a 5th and 7th round pick. Good God! What do you expect? Most 2nd day players don't last in the league past the first year or two.

National Sports Advisors said:
2006 NFL DRAFT

Summary: In a one word: TERRIBLE. Outside of Gostowski, absolutely awful. Maroney has given us ok production..........if he was a 4th rounder! Not good enough for the #21 pick in the entire draft. If Bobby Grier was drafting like this we would be calling for his job. GRADE: C-

Jackson was a bust. Maroney? Jury is still out for me. Thomas is good and Gostkowski is amazing. Most of the rest of the picks were GOOD which is unbelievable considering that most were 5th, 6th, and 7th rounders. You have ZERO perspective when it comes to late round picks and the odds that any will be even decent.

National Sports Advisors said:
2007 NFL DRAFT:

Summary: The jury is still out on Merriweather and Richardson, but the rest of these guys aren't even in the league nevermind on our team. Again, just another mediocre AT BEST draft. GRADE: INCOMPLETE but heading towards a C or C- AT BEST.

LOL. Jury still out on Merriweather??? Get a grip! He is a starting caliber safety. I agree on Richardson, but I lean towards him panning out and he was a 6th rounder. Again, get some perspective on late round picks. 90% don't pan out for anyone. Brown and Oldenburg are still in the league, but I can see them being potential busts. They are still day 2 picks.

We also tend to trade picks forward to future years, which skews a straight look at the actual picks. Having a 1st rounder taken from us REALLY skews it.

National Sports Advisors · Oct 22, 2008

DaBruinz you are the biggest homer on this board. You NEVER criticize a thing Pioli and BB do. EVER. It's a joke. Read my original post. I give credit for the good picks and criticize the many bad ones. I gave Pioli fair grades. However, FAIR grades aren't going to keep us at the top of the heap for long. It's been a LONG time since Pioli knocked one out of the park on draft day. And, please, stop with the #2 for Welker and #4 for Moss. That's great, but we also need young, low-priced draft picks to extend the depth of this roster.

Pioli's lousy drafts killing our roster/depth

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