Last chance for Cassel verus San Francisco

GuyClinch said:

What's more likely the entire Patriots offense - which was the best in history suddenly sucks or Matt Cassell sucks. <g> It HAS to be one of the other. Our offense has been bad. Someone is screwing up. It's the QB.

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How was the offense looking just before Brady went down?

How was the offense looking just before Brady went down?

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Just fine. Had Brady been healthy this offense would be doing great things - Randy Moss said as much in the pre-season. Wait you know so much more then Randy Moss right?

This board is like some strange alternate reality. Most of the rest of the world sees it the same way I do. I just read this from Bill Simmons..

Last week's Miami game was like watching one of the Andrettis climb out of the best possible Indy 500 car and turn it over to some drunk guy in the stands. It has just been cruel. Whether you loved the 2007 Pats or despised them with every fiber in your body, you have to admit, you weren't turning the channel when they were on offense. Now you do. Alas.

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Wait - let me guess. He is a moron too right? LMAO. Keep it up..guys. Maybe BB is onto something and Cassell has stage fright or something but it's been pretty dismal so far.

You can keep holding onto the "well brady sucked too mantra" but for how much longer is that going to fly? Brady started having some awesome games with some mediocre recievers.

Pete

GuyClinch said:

Just fine. Had Brady been healthy this offense would be doing great things - Randy Moss said as much in the pre-season. Wait you know so much more then Randy Moss right?

This board is like some strange alternate reality. Most of the rest of the world sees it the same way I do. I just read this from Bill Simmons..



Wait - let me guess. He is a moron too right? LMAO. Keep it up..guys. Maybe BB is onto something and Cassell has stage fright or something but it's been pretty dismal so far.

You can keep holding onto the "well brady sucked too mantra" but for how much longer is that going to fly? Brady started having some awesome games with some mediocre recievers.

Pete

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If you don't want to call the suicide hotline could you at least call the cops and wave a pistol at them? Seriously, we understand it's the end of the world, no one in authority is doing anything about it, and your dog died. Just pull the trigger already.

emoney_33 said:

It's sad that you attempt to pass yourself off as a Patriots fan. Just pitiful.

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I think his point was excellent.

Cassel sucks and BB is stuborn. Jeff Garcia was mentioned, accurate as hell, he'd be great! Anyone would. Cassel coudln't QB a division 1 school, probably not even division 2.

He sucks. Quit being delusional.

Deus Irae said:

Why would I do that? Rohan doesn't fit my stated criteria. Look, I understand that you get all misty eyed over Collins, but Collins is a career backup after one serious attempt starting for the Bills. Last season's 3 starts were his first since 1997. People like you prefer failure to the unknown. I generally prefer the unknown to failure.

As for the "Tom Brady" reference, I think it's clear, or at least should be, that my point about that resume was more to point out the insufficiency of Collins' resume than to pump up Cassel's.

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I'm afraid I'm not aware what you're stated criteria is. No wins in 7 years as a college and pro quarterback? At least Davey won the MVP Europe award one year and played some good ball at LSU. I can imagine if Brady had gone down the year that Davey was Tom's primary backup, this entire thread would have played out the same with the current Cassell defenders stepping up to bat for Davey, trying to explain away his struggles at the QB position. The rationale? Bill had picked him as the backup so he must be good.

My keyboard has never gotten damp over Todd Collins. He is and always has been a career backup with all that the title implies. I just think that it is indisputable that he has achieved more than Cassell who (again) has the thinnest resume of any QB in the history of the NFL. I would have been quite happy had the Patriots brought in any of a number of veteran quarterbacks in the spring because I do not believe the man with no victories in seven years is the answer. But time will time.

I personally do not think Belichick holds a great opinion of Cassell, but that he was taking a gamble that Brady wouldn't be hurt. Cassell's contract is cheap, and a veteran backup would have cost more, though I don't think the cost would have been a cap buster. But if Cassell continues to play as he has, with the Patriot offense generating about 16 or 17 points per game, and Belichick keeps him in the entire season, I'll admit that I'm wrong on this point.

NormZauchin said:

I'm afraid I'm not aware what you're stated criteria is. No wins in 7 years as a college and pro quarterback? At least Davey won the MVP Europe award one year and played some good ball at LSU. I can imagine if Brady had gone down the year that Davey was Tom's primary backup, this entire thread would have played out the same with the current Cassell defenders stepping up to bat for Davey, trying to explain away his struggles at the QB position. The rationale? Bill had picked him as the backup so he must be good.

My keyboard has never gotten damp over Todd Collins. He is and always has been a career backup with all that the title implies. I just think that it is indisputable that he has achieved more than Cassell who (again) has the thinnest resume of any QB in the history of the NFL. I would have been quite happy had the Patriots brought in any of a number of veteran quarterbacks in the spring because I do not believe the man with no victories in seven years is the answer. But time will time.

I personally do not think Belichick holds a great opinion of Cassell, but that he was taking a gamble that Brady wouldn't be hurt. Cassell's contract is cheap, and a veteran backup would have cost more, though I don't think the cost would have been a cap buster. But if Cassell continues to play as he has, with the Patriot offense generating about 16 or 17 points per game, and Belichick keeps him in the entire season, I'll admit that I'm wrong on this point.

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Let me put it a different way, then, since thinking this all through has clearly not been a priority for the "veteran QB" crowd.

Kindly list for me all the quarterbacks who:

were available (retired and/or on other teams don't count, therefore) for backup money

are clearly better than backup quarterbacks

were willing to be a backup to Brady

would fit the Patriots systems, on and off the field

AND

could pretty clearly have taken the team to Super Bowl contention if Tom Brady had gone down in the opening minutes of the first game of the Patriots season.

If you don't want to call the suicide hotline could you at least call the cops and wave a pistol at them? Seriously, we understand it's the end of the world, no one in authority is doing anything about it, and your dog died. Just pull the trigger already.

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I might be sucidial if that was the best attempt at an argument I could make. <g> But hey if that's the kind of post that floats your boat - have fun. Cassell still stunk.

Let me put it a different way, then, since thinking this all through has clearly not been a priority for the "veteran QB" crowd.

Kindly list for me all the quarterbacks who:

were available (retired and/or on other teams don't count, therefore) for backup money

are clearly better than backup quarterbacks

were willing to be a backup to Brady

would fit the Patriots systems, on and off the field

AND

could pretty clearly have taken the team to Super Bowl contention if Tom Brady had gone down in the opening minutes of the first game of the Patriots season.

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That's really an empty argument. It's not that Cassell is any good - it's that we couldn't possibly do any better? I think that Vinny could come out of retirement and give the Pats more then Cassell has done. And I imagine BB can think of several other players that can do the same thing.

The system is not everything - the Pats can adjust to a new QB by implementing a simplified offense until he learns it. And that's exactly what's going to happen if Cassell keeps on running our record setting offense into the ground.

I think the more skeptical fan realizes that BB is just giving Cassell every opportunity to succeed. He is getting his shot with as little pressure as possible hence this talk about how it would be impossible to replace him outside the organization and so on. They are being helpful and that's the right thing. But much like Chad Jackson and the good things you heard about him you have to take it with a grain of salt.

That Pats would change up on a dime. Suddenly it would be so and so is smart football player who is picking up the system very quickly. <g>

Pete

GuyClinch said:

I might be sucidial if that was the best attempt at an argument I could make. <g> But hey if that's the kind of post that floats your boat - have fun. Cassell still stunk.

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And we come to the heart of the matter, you are here to argue and have little interest in factual football discussion or the Patriots.

GuyClinch said:

Let me put it a different way, then, since thinking this all through has clearly not been a priority for the "veteran QB" crowd.



That's really an empty argument. It's not that Cassell is any good - it's that we couldn't possibly do any better? I think that Vinny could come out of retirement and give the Pats more then Cassell has done. And I imagine BB can think of several other players that can do the same thing.

The system is not everything - the Pats can adjust to a new QB by implementing a simplified offense until he learns it. And that's exactly what's going to happen if Cassell keeps on running our record setting offense into the ground.

I think the more skeptical fan realizes that BB is just giving Cassell every opportunity to succeed. He is getting his shot with as little pressure as possible hence this talk about how it would be impossible to replace him outside the organization and so on. They are being helpful and that's the right thing. But much like Chad Jackson and the good things you heard about him you have to take it with a grain of salt.

That Pats would change up on a dime. Suddenly it would be so and so is smart football player who is picking up the system very quickly. <g>

Pete

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So, you just completely bailed out on the answer. Why am I not surprised? Thanks for being a prime example of what I was talking about though. Easy with complaints and completely without workable solutions.... you're fitting right in with the rest of the "get a vet" crowd.

mcbee said:

I think his point was excellent.

Cassel sucks and BB is stuborn. Jeff Garcia was mentioned, accurate as hell, he'd be great! Anyone would. Cassel coudln't QB a division 1 school, probably not even division 2.

He sucks. Quit being delusional.

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"accurate as hell"


Garcia: Career comp%: 61.2
Cassel: Career comp%: 63.1


You sir are a moron who doesn't know football. You have proven it with countless posts. Can you just leave already, go follow all the other teams that have QB's not named Cassel.

emoney_33 said:

"accurate as hell"


Garcia: Career comp%: 61.2
Cassel: Career comp%: 63.1


You sir are a moron who doesn't know football. You have proven it with countless posts. Can you just leave already, go follow all the other teams that have QB's not named Cassel.

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As a moron, I resent you utilizing that apellation for mcbee.

PatsWickedPissah said:

As a moron, I resent you utilizing that apellation for mcbee.

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While I quite agree insulting hapless morons with one of the trolls on my "This user is on your Ignore List." constitutes cruelty to the societally challenged, I must protest your self-inclusion in that group. I'd even protest a Bugs Bunnyish "what a maroon" on your behalf - you're more of a mauve or even a peach (albeit one with the fuzz scuffed off).

NormZauchin said:

My keyboard has never gotten damp over Todd Collins. He is and always has been a career backup with all that the title implies. I just think that it is indisputable that he has achieved more than Cassell who (again) has the thinnest resume of any QB in the history of the NFL. I would have been quite happy had the Patriots brought in any of a number of veteran quarterbacks in the spring because I do not believe the man with no victories in seven years is the answer. But time will time.

I personally do not think Belichick holds a great opinion of Cassell, but that he was taking a gamble that Brady wouldn't be hurt. Cassell's contract is cheap, and a veteran backup would have cost more, though I don't think the cost would have been a cap buster. But if Cassell continues to play as he has, with the Patriot offense generating about 16 or 17 points per game, and Belichick keeps him in the entire season, I'll admit that I'm wrong on this point.

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Todd Collins has been a third quarterback most of his career and was happy with that role. I'm not totally sold on Cassel but by the end of this season I think he will be much more than a 3rd QB going forward.

Before Collins stepped up as a starter last year it was 10 years since he started an NFL game. He has been in the league 14 yrs and it took him 13 yrs before he was able to hit the type of passes coaches wanted to see, he always seemed to struggle finding receivers down the middle of the field which ironically enough is what I think Cassel's problem is. Maybe Cassel can make an adjustment and overcome this flaw. It seems as though the bye came at a perfect time for him and the Pats staff, now they can coach him up some more. No this is not a perfect situation for the Pats but I believe it's the best option available at this point. With the exception of Sage Rosenfels in Houston I think every team will experience a substantial fall off when going to their back up so I don't think that BB/Pioli were unprepared for this scenario but that there is an overall lack of talent at the QB position in the league.

As far as bringing in someone like Jeff Garcia, I'm not sure he can make the transition from the west coast offense to the Pats' scheme. He's been succesful in San Fran, Philly and Tampa who all use similar "west coast" style schemes. He didn't fare so well in Detroit and Cleveland, teams which use different schemes.

emoney_33 said:

It's sad that you attempt to pass yourself off as a Patriots fan. Just pitiful.

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Just being realistic dude......unlike yourself who is rolling around in the fetal position in your footie patriots pajama's with your rose colored glasses on....saying "Cassel rules....Cassel rules"!!!!"....
I can see the situation for what it REALLY is......you pacify yourself.....that is the difference....

stcjones said:

Just being realistic dude......unlike yourself who is rolling around in the fetal position in your footie patriots pajama's with your rose colored glasses on....saying "Cassel rules....Cassel rules"!!!!"....
I can see the situation for what it REALLY is......you pacify yourself.....that is the difference....

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Seriously guy! SPACE BAR! PERIODS!
Does your keyboard have a button for elipses?

Steve Grogan's read on Cassel during the Miami game:

In defense of Matt Cassel, I was glad I was at the stadium to see that, because there were not people open. They just were not getting open for him. After the first quarter he had no place to throw the ball. I know people will blame him but a quarterback can't throw the ball if there's not somebody open.

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Grogan's Grade: Week 3 | New England vs. Miami

Deus Irae said:

Steve Grogan's read on Cassel during the Miami game:



Grogan's Grade: Week 3 | New England vs. Miami

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That's what happens when you fall behind big early and everyone in the stadium knows you're throwing. We need the D to step up and make some stops!

Garcia: Career comp%: 61.2
Cassel: Career comp%: 63.1


You sir are a moron who doesn't know football. You have proven it with countless posts. Can you just leave already, go follow all the other teams that have QB's not named Cassel.

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This is such an empty statistic - you shouldn't be calling people morons based on it. It's like saying Perkins is a better shooter then Eddie House because his shooting percentage is higher.

Of course Cassell has as great passing percentage - he doesn't throw the ball downfield. If they kept track of the accuracy of his medium and long range passes then you might be onto something.

Pete

So, you just completely bailed out on the answer. Why am I not surprised? Thanks for being a prime example of what I was talking about though. Easy with complaints and completely without workable solutions.... you're fitting right in with the rest of the "get a vet" crowd.

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Amusing. We are talking about how Cassell is or is not a good football QB (so far) and your winning that we bailed on your unrelated question. Let's for the sake of argument assume that guys like Chris Simms and Garcia wouldn't outshine him. He still has sucked.

That's my point. If you want to speculate that unemployed QBs all suck compared to Cassell that's your theory. I don't buy it. I am not even convinced that Cassell is the best QB on this team.

We are already hearing rumblings in the press. When Cassell has the ball he simply doesn't see the field that well. He doesn't find guys. That's the problem that Pete Carroll had with him. Big Arm - Moves Well - but slow reads.. So he didn't get to start in college.

Didn't the owner kid say he has to improve? I think he does or he won't be QBing this team. Its a tough world out there. If you think a veteran team built for a Super Bowl run is going to give a whole year to a guy "learning" you got a nother thing comin..

Pete