Joyner: Not all is lost for the pats

Re: Joyner:Not all is lost for the pats

Well that was reassuring....At least everyone hasnt given up on us yet...

Could you provide a summary?

It seems like so many people are saying that the Pats are washed up or trying to explain why maybe there's a chnce they're not done. Am I crazy or have they only lost one game? Why is everyone going so nuts here? Why don't we wait until they're 2-6 or 5-1 or 6-5 before we and the media start determining if the Pats are terrible, in big trouble, or still good.

Patjew said:

It seems like so many people are saying that the Pats are washed up or trying to explain why maybe there's a chnce they're not done. Am I crazy or have they only lost one game? Why is everyone going so nuts here? Why don't we wait until they're 2-6 or 5-1 or 6-5 before we and the media start determining if the Pats are terrible, in big trouble, or still good.

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Because that would be too rational.

Thanks for the link SVN, good read.

As I pointed out in this thread days ago, we need to run the ball more: http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...0-offense-calling-more-runs-key-rest-way.html

Patjew said:

It seems like so many people are saying that the Pats are washed up or trying to explain why maybe there's a chnce they're not done. Am I crazy or have they only lost one game? Why is everyone going so nuts here? Why don't we wait until they're 2-6 or 5-1 or 6-5 before we and the media start determining if the Pats are terrible, in big trouble, or still good.

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For these media chuckleheads, I can imagine "ding, dong the witch is dead" playing in the background as they report the changing of the guard. One more reason to celebrate how frequently they miss the mark with their predictions.

Yes, very nice.

But I'm not quite ready to turn my love of football into a math quiz.

I believe all is lost for the Patriots.

Kraft should sell the team now before its to late.

:beersign:

That one made my pumpkin ache.

Still, Kaczur doesn't look as bad as the media repeaters try to make him out to be. Sheesh, our DL are suffering worse turnstyle-itis than our OL by those figures.

The first and most important of the "accentuate the positive" points is the run blocking performance by the Patriots offensive line so far this year

i read that statement in the article, and i could swear the writer made a mistake....

but somehow he has stats to back that up....so my question is...what the hell happened against Miami when the runing game was horrendus while the line blocked well

ALP said:

The first and most important of the "accentuate the positive" points is the run blocking performance by the Patriots offensive line so far this year

i read that statement in the article, and i could swear the writer made a mistake....

but somehow he has stats to back that up....so my question is...what the hell happened against Miami when the runing game was horrendus while the line blocked well

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I'm assuming his metrics end the second the runner breaks the line of scrimmage and gets stomped into the astro.

JSn said:

I'm assuming his metrics end the second the runner breaks the line of scrimmage and gets stomped into the astro.

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What's up with that pic? Is that Cassel? It's supposed to make him look cool...like he's strategizing or something. Planning something big. But it doesn't work, cause he sucks. So it just makes him look idiotic.

Admirable sentiments about the pats not being done. But they're done.

Patjew said:

It seems like so many people are saying that the Pats are washed up or trying to explain why maybe there's a chnce they're not done. Am I crazy or have they only lost one game?

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If the season ended today we'd be in the playoffs,

Yeah, and they'd lose in the first round.

Season doesn't end today though.

Might as well use it as a rebuilding year. Get the rookies and young players some practice time. What is to lose? They get the crap beat out of them by Miami at home so who cares at this point, right?

spacecrime said:

If the season ended today we'd be in the playoffs,

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Is that why so many people are trying to end it all now? When these new cults get together to form their suicide pacts, couldn't they at least keep it to California where it's expected?

wow that was strange. never read an article like that before.

Patjew said:

It seems like so many people are saying that the Pats are washed up or trying to explain why maybe there's a chnce they're not done. Am I crazy or have they only lost one game? Why is everyone going so nuts here? Why don't we wait until they're 2-6 or 5-1 or 6-5 before we and the media start determining if the Pats are terrible, in big trouble, or still good.

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This board would be pretty dull for a few more weeks while we waited. I think some of us should jump to conclusions--perhaps a new one every day--and the rest of us could tell them how full of crap they are. We could take turns. We should avoid being correct about things. That makes for short threads.

I have a lot of respect for Joyner in that he is trying to take a closer look at things, and I think he's a welcome addition to WEEI.com.

That said, his metrics for the Patriots defenders are pretty misleading and ultimately useless. I'm not sure if he watches the games and charts runs or gathers metrics from play by play - either way, he's off-the-mark and its a disservice to Wilfork and Seymour. I only hope fans see through it.

To say that Wilfork and Seymour are 0% at POA runs makes me want to vomit, mainly b/c I took the time to re-watch and breakdown the defensive snaps from the first two games, and its quite possible these guys could not have been more dominant.

Joyner's problem mainly lies that in the Pats 3-4, the DL's responsibility is not to blow up plays and penetrate, but is more to keep blockers off the LBs so that they can make the play. Wilfork and Seymour especially get double teamed quite a bit, and anytime they are able to come off the line with enough force to demand and maintain a double team, they have changed the play in a positive way.

With this in mind, I did a very rudimentary and basic charting of Wilfork and Seymour's (and other members of the front 7) play at the line, and any time I felt they had changed the play for the positive, I noted it, anytime I felt they were defeated and had a negative impact on the play, I noted that as well. The result was seeing that in 2 games, Wilfork and Seymour had owned the line, and only had a few plays where they were taken out, defeated by their blocker. There were a couple dozen plays between the two games where either or both of these guys directly changed the play - but would not get credit for it in Joyner's POA system or in the stat book.


Likewise, I'd love to think Mayo is doing as well as Joyner says he is, but its not entirely the case. Mayo generally gets off blocks and makes plays, and was impressive in the first two games. But its important to keep in mind, that as the inside linebacker on the weakside, he's the guy with the best chance to make a play, and the best chance to benefit from Sey and Wilfork eating up O-Linemen.



In short, hooray for Joyner taking the effort to take a closer look. Boo for that closer look being very misleading on one side of the ball.

BradyManny2344 said:

The result was seeing that in 2 games, Wilfork and Seymour had owned the line, and only had a few plays where they were taken out, defeated by their blocker.
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Mayo generally gets off blocks and makes plays, and was impressive in the first two games. But its important to keep in mind, that as the inside linebacker on the weakside, he's the guy with the best chance to make a play, and the best chance to benefit from Sey and Wilfork eating up O-Linemen.

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