Why We Lost Today

Deus Irae said:

What's impossible is people like you who just pull opinions out of their ass rather than speaking from a position of knowledge. Again, Cassel is completing 2/3 of his official pass attempts on the season. That's just fact, no matter how you try to spin it. Brady's career completion percentage is 63%. Again, that's just fact. It's not my fault that your argument is crap.

As for Cassel being a "passable starting quarterback", he's a backup. He's done what you would expect of a backup, and a bit more, which is why the team is 2-1. The refusal to dump all over a guy who wasn't to blame for the team's loss does not equate to having that player as a binkie.

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You can complete 60% of your passes, but if you can't score or move the ball at all, your completion percentage matters for jack, which is exactly the case here. Cassel doesn't threaten downfield as was seen by fact, so teams can put lots of guys in the box and/or blitz, harming the running game or further harming the passing game as happened today.

The team is 2-1 because they started the season against two of the worst teams in football. Cassel may have a good game against the 49ers, but against the stronger teams on the schedule (and even some of the weaker ones, as has been seen today), he does not give the team a very good chance to win which is what you need from a backup quarterback on a team that still has a chance.

Yes, the defense did not have a good game and the Dolphins used a tricky offensive style to score points and the candor of the game changed completely after the first TD was called back. But Cassel did not play a good game and the team's only touchdown was on a 4th down after a return to the 25, and it's not like I'm the only one pointing these observations out.

DaBruinz said:

YOU are just as bad as Briz. You don't offer logic and your "observations" are extremely limited to the views that you get at the stadium. You claim logic, yet when people throw facts at you, you go "well, yeah, but" and throw something else out.

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Yes everyone that doesn't agree with you is wrong. That's your argument in a nutshell. Also I need to go look in a mirror and go watch the games.

I suspect my observations will be vindicated by Cassel's further play this season. If they're not, well I'll happily eat my words, and I'm guessing everyone else who is posting about Cassel's poor play will too.

primetime said:

You can complete 60% of your passes, but if you can't score or move the ball at all, your completion percentage matters for jack, which is exactly the case here. Cassel doesn't threaten downfield as was seen by fact, so teams can put lots of guys in the box and/or blitz, harming the running game or further harming the passing game as happened today.

The team is 2-1 because they started the season against two of the worst teams in football. Cassel may have a good game against the 49ers, but against the stronger teams on the schedule (and even some of the weaker ones, as has been seen today), he does not give the team a very good chance to win which is what you need from a backup quarterback on a team that still has a chance.

Yes, the defense did not have a good game and the Dolphins used a tricky offensive style to score points and the candor of the game changed completely after the first TD was called back. But Cassel did not play a good game and the team's only touchdown was on a 4th down after a return to the 25, and it's not like I'm the only one pointing these observations out.

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Again, this wasn't your argument. Your argument was about his throws. Your argument was crap because you didn't bother actually checking before making it. Instead of just admitting your argument was faulty, and having to review your overall opinion, you just ignore your error, move the goalposts, and keep spouting silly comments like "the only touchdown..." when the team had another touchdown called back because of a hasty whistle. Adding that touchdown under those circumstances is as valid as you taking away the other.

The team is 2-1 because they've won 2 games and lost 1. The rest is just your spin on that fact.

gpds69 said:

If we want to win more then 4 games this year, Cassel needs take some chances down field, take at chance at Randy. Keep him happy. 4.2 yards per attempt isn't going to win very many games. Stop with the dink and dunk crap. Open the playbook Josh McDaniels..do something.

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The play-book is open. What you clearly can't comprehend is that they can't go deep if the O-line isn't doing its job in protecting Cassel and in opening holes for the RB.

BTW, The Pats won 11 games and a SB and a 1st year starter with that "dink and dunk crap."

gpds69 said:

Did you watch the preseason? Cassel shouldn't be on this team. Gutierrez played better.

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You're not really this dumb, are you?

primetime said:

You can complete 60% of your passes, but if you can't score or move the ball at all, your completion percentage matters for jack, which is exactly the case here. Cassel doesn't threaten downfield as was seen by fact, so teams can put lots of guys in the box and/or blitz, harming the running game or further harming the passing game as happened today.

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Again, you ignore WHY the OFFENSE, not just Cassel, didn't threaten downfield. Its because the O-line wasn't able to really by time for Cassel and they didn't open up holes for the RBs in the run game. What is FACT is that you want to ignore reality and that you want to blame all of the offenses woes on Cassel while ignoring Belichick's Mantra that games are won and lost in the trenches. The Pats offensive line clearly lost.

You also don't understand that there is a difference between a run blitz and a pass blitz. The Dolphins weren't putting more men in the box. In fact, on the 1st run blitz, they dropped 2 of their LBs OUT of the box and just blitzed Yeremiah Bell. The O-line didn't do their job.

primetime said:

The team is 2-1 because they started the season against two of the worst teams in football. Cassel may have a good game against the 49ers, but against the stronger teams on the schedule (and even some of the weaker ones, as has been seen today), he does not give the team a very good chance to win which is what you need from a backup quarterback on a team that still has a chance.

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And you can make this determination based on your limited views from the stands that don't offer you the benefit of replays? WOW. You'd better call Belichick and let him know you are omniscient like that. He'll be upset you didn't step forward before, though, and you'll have to earn your way out of the dog house, but if you are a s good as you claim, then all will be forgiven.

Sorry, but you clearly don't understand the job of a bck-up QB. The job of a back-up QB isn't to give the team a very good chance to win if the starter is out. The job of the back-up QB is not NOT lose games. And this misunderstanding of yours explains a lot about your unrealistic expectations and your bias.

primetime said:

Yes, the defense did not have a good game and the Dolphins used a tricky offensive style to score points and the candor of the game changed completely after the first TD was called back. But Cassel did not play a good game and the team's only touchdown was on a 4th down after a return to the 25, and it's not like I'm the only one pointing these observations out.

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The defense was horrible. From the 1st series to the last. The defense got burned by the same play 4 times. FOUR TIMES. That is horrible play recognition, adjustment and defense.

No one is saying that Cassel played a good game. People are saying that, while Cassel didn't play a good game, the defense was worse and the offensive line bears more burden than Cassel does.

DaBruinz said:

The play-book is open. What you clearly can't comprehend is that they can't go deep if the O-line isn't doing its job in protecting Cassel and in opening holes for the RB.

BTW, The Pats won 11 games and a SB and a 1st year starter with that "dink and dunk crap."

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Also that year we had a very good D.....We are old at most spots...and its starting to show. And trust me...we had times to throw it deep in this game...we had time to hit the open WRs that were 20 yards down field. We had chances....

primetime said:

Yes everyone that doesn't agree with you is wrong. That's your argument in a nutshell. Also I need to go look in a mirror and go watch the games.

I suspect my observations will be vindicated by Cassel's further play this season. If they're not, well I'll happily eat my words, and I'm guessing everyone else who is posting about Cassel's poor play will too.

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No, actually. That's not it in a nutshell. Only the ignorant claim that. I've been wrong many times. But I've been right many many times more.

You can suspect whatever you want. Its not going to change that you will see only what you want and that you will claim everything is Cassel's fault, whether or not it is. You'll make excuse after excuse that its Cassel's fault and not put blame where its due. Which is exactly what you've done in your posts tonight.

You act like there is this whole army posting that today's loss was solely about cassel. That's not true. Not even remotely. The people who truly watched the game and know about the game will look at the horrible play of the O-line and the defense and say that they have more blame than Cassel. And they will be right. Those who just want to beat their chests and act like know it alls, will just claim its Cassel and that with someone else, the team would have won. They'd be completely wrong, but that won't change them from thinking they are right.

You can sit there and think whatever the hell you want. I don't care. You clearly are too stubborn to listen to others who provide fact that is supported by the actual footage of the game over what you think you saw while you watched from the stands.

Sorry, I love watching the games from the stadium, but I'm not ignorant enough to pretend that I can see everything going on and that I can't miss things that are happening. And I'm not ignorant enough to believe that the jumbotron is showing me everything either.

gpds69 said:

Also that year we had a very good D.....We are old at most spots...and its starting to show. And trust me...we had times to throw it deep in this game...we had time to hit the open WRs that were 20 yards down field. We had chances....

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In 2001, the Patriots Defense wasn't very good. They played a bend don't break defense. And they were older than this one, if you want to get into it. With the likes of Bryan Cox, Roman Phifer, Anthony Pleasant, Bobby Hamilton, etc on the team.

You are clearly someone who doesn't know what he is talking about. This defense isn't old at most spots. In fact, it got younger at LB and in the secondary.

Listen, the Pats didn't have time to throw the deep ball. You've done nothing to earn ANY trust. All you've spewed is ignorance.

PatsFaninME said:

The answer is simple. Cassell stinks! And until the Patriots brass realize this, this team will have a 50-50 shot at winning every week.

O'Connell is young and inexperienced but he should has already shown more than Cassell has in 4 years. Cassell should have been cut in pre-season.

O'Connell will make mistakes along the way, but he is already a better QB than Cassell will ever be. Hopefully, Pats will expedite his training and he will start in 2 weeks.

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Yep he got lucky against 2 bad teams, should have been cut and an experienced replacement brought in. We have no running game at the moment,we're a passing side without a quarterback who can pass more than 8 yards.
Woeful run defence as well but that's nothing new, last season was about the same against teams with good RBs.

DaBruinz said:

In 2001, the Patriots Defense wasn't very good. They played a bend don't break defense. And they were older than this one, if you want to get into it. With the likes of Bryan Cox, Roman Phifer, Anthony Pleasant, Bobby Hamilton, etc on the team.

You are clearly someone who doesn't know what he is talking about. This defense isn't old at most spots. In fact, it got younger at LB and in the secondary.

Listen, the Pats didn't have time to throw the deep ball. You've done nothing to earn ANY trust. All you've spewed is ignorance.

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We got younger at LB???????? Not really. We have one new starter.... the other rookies don't play. Teddy is old and slow. and for the secondary...id take 2001 secondary any day over this one.

gpds69 said:

Also that year we had a very good D.....We are old at most spots...and its starting to show. And trust me...we had times to throw it deep in this game...we had time to hit the open WRs that were 20 yards down field. We had chances....

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We had the 24th ranked defense and the 19th ranked offense over the 2001 regular season, god only knows how we won...

The following year largely the same team went 9-7 and failed to make the playoffs.

I remember last February there were lots of armchair analysts who claimed that Brady guy had lots of time to hit open WR's down field...and they were wrong too.

MoLewisrocks said:

We had the 24th ranked defense and the 19th ranked offense over the 2001 regular season, god only knows how we won...

The following year largely the same team went 9-7 and failed to make the playoffs.

I remember last February there were lots of armchair analysts who claimed that Brady guy had lots of time to hit open WR's down field...and they were wrong too.

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I think he's talking about yesterday at the end there. There were times we had receivers open down field but Cassel didn't see them,the commentators on TV made reference to the fact.

gpds69 said:

We got younger at LB???????? Not really. We have one new starter.... the other rookies don't play. Teddy is old and slow. and for the secondary...id take 2001 secondary any day over this one.

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I've got news for you, The subtraction of Seau (38) and the addition of Mayo and Guyton (who DOES PLAY) makes the team YOUNGER.

I understand you are clueless about football. Your posts have shown it. Please stop trying to spread that around to everyone else.

why we lost today is cause the fins scored more than we did!

vandergraafgenerator said:

Yep he got lucky against 2 bad teams, should have been cut and an experienced replacement brought in. We have no running game at the moment,we're a passing side without a quarterback who can pass more than 8 yards.
Woeful run defence as well but that's nothing new, last season was about the same against teams with good RBs.

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Cutting Cassel and bringing in a different QB would have solved the O-line's blocking woes in both the running game and passing game? Really? Since you are so intelligent, please explain how adding a different QB improves the run blocking and the pass blocking of the O-line.

The run defense was actually very good last year until Colvin went down. You might want to do some homework there next time.

LaDanian Tomlinson had 18 rushes for 43 yards.
Marion Barber / Julius Jones - 15 rushes for 97 yards
Clinton Portis - 11 rushes for 27 yards
Joseph Addai - 26 rushes for 112 yards
Bryan Westbrook - 17 rushes for 52 yards
Willis McGahee - 30 rushes for 138 yards (Colvin out)
Willi Parker - 21 rushe for 120 yards (Colvin out)
Brandon Jacobs - 15 rushes for 67 yards (Colvin Out)

So, looking at thise,k the Pats shut down 3 of the better running back in the league last year and 3 had good games while Colvin was healthy. And with Colvin out, we only played 3 good running backs, and they had good games.


This idea that Cassel can only pass for 8 yards is just non-sensical drivel. He's made several longer passes. But, people clearly have out of whack expectations and don't remember 2001.

vandergraafgenerator said:

I think he's talking about yesterday at the end there. There were times we had receivers open down field but Cassel didn't see them,the commentators on TV made reference to the fact.

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They made reference to David Thomas being open. Yes. But what they failed to mention is that, one of the reasons that Cassel didn't see Thomas is that Cassel had turned to his right prior and was trying to get away from the pressure. Its hard to see to your left when you are trying to scramble away from pressure that is coming from that side.

DaBruinz said:

They made reference to David Thomas being open. Yes. But what they failed to mention is that, one of the reasons that Cassel didn't see Thomas is that Cassel had turned to his right prior and was trying to get away from the pressure. Its hard to see to your left when you are trying to scramble away from pressure that is coming from that side.

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That's what makes the difference between a great quarterback and an average
one I guess. Vision and the technical ability to exploit it.

vandergraafgenerator said:

Yep he got lucky against 2 bad teams, should have been cut and an experienced replacement brought in. We have no running game at the moment,we're a passing side without a quarterback who can pass more than 8 yards.
Woeful run defence as well but that's nothing new, last season was about the same against teams with good RBs.

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Look-you can't write off the season based on ONE game. There's a long way to go, the Pats will be fine.

DisgruntledTunaFan said:

Look-you can't write off the season based on ONE game. There's a long way to go, the Pats will be fine.

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thank goodness someone is thinking here.....not saying its me...but I agree....we will be fine...