Serious offers for Cassel yet? [mergedx2]

Re: How many #1 picks for Cassel?

Urgent said:

Dopes.

Cassel is a free agent at the end of the season.
Is no one here paying any attention at all to what's going on this season?

If Cassel plays great, he is gone.
Cleo Lemon got a $10mm contract this off-season, as did a bunch of other similarly "skilled" QB's. If Cassel plays great and leads the team to 10-12 wins, he will earn a big pay-day and be gone. The market for crappy back-ups like Lemon is 3 years, $3mm+. No way the Pats pay $5mm or more a year for a back-up, even at QB. That's why they have O'Connell, to be the next cheap developmental back-up QB.

If Cassel stinks, he's gone.
If Cassel starts out hot, beating KC, NYJ, and Miami, but then crumbles against Denver, Indy, Pittsburgh, San Diego, and stumbles to a 7-9 record or worse, he's probably gone as well. The Pats will focus on developing O'Connell and other options.

If Cassel is mediocre, there's a chance the Pats re-sign him as a back-up for reasonable money, in the $2-4mm range.

However, there is no scenario in which the Patriots trade him.
They would have to sign him, including a big signing bonus, and then trade him, eating the signing bonus. The corresponding cap hit would then kill their plans to re-sign Wilfork, Mankins, Hobbs, etc.

The only hopes of draft picks would be if he has an incredible season, takes the Pats to the Super Bowl, and some team signs him for $10mm. Then the Pats would get a third round compensatory pick in 2010.

Click to expand...

There are two scenarios in which the Pats trade him. If they extend him for 3 years before the deadline for signing extensions that can be amortized in part in the current season, they could trade him in 2009 or 2010 with marginal dead cap when measured against what they could net in picks in a QB starved league facing a shallow draft at that position. The key there would be agreeing on a deal that satisfies both sides. The second scenario is a franchise tag and trade deal. The key there would be him performing well into the playoffs. The Browns could have traded Anderson for quite a bit heading into this season and they didn't even make the playoffs.... They chose IMO incorrectly not to sell high because they didn't trust what they had behind him. We don't have that problem.

If Cassel is mediocre he is gone and they won't re-sign him for $1, dope.

Re: How many #1 picks for Cassel?

Urgent said:

However, there is no scenario in which the Patriots trade him.

Click to expand...

Franchise tag.

If Cassel has a good season (i.e. solid numbers, wins a playoff game), the Pats should slap the tag on him. QB play in the NFL today is so horrible, some desperate team will trade a #1 for the right to sign him.

Re: How many #1 picks for Cassel?

LOL at the morons who don't understand sarcasm, and the morons who don't read dates.

Re: How many #1 picks for Cassel?

Fellow moron, here. All I saw was 2 #1 for Cassel. I just vommited up my 8th Sam Boston ale. And it DID taste better the 2nd time around

Re: How many #1 picks for Cassel?

MoLewisrocks said:

If Cassel is mediocre he is gone and they won't re-sign him for $1, dope.

Click to expand...

Right, the only scenario where we're stuck is if he's mediocre.

If he sucks we just let him go. If he's good or better we can Franchise and trade him. But if he's mediocre then he's good enough to regret losing but not good enough to Franchise and risk getting stuck with the big one year price tag.

Re: How many #1 picks for Cassel?

Urgent said:

Dopes.

Cassel is a free agent at the end of the season.

Click to expand...

You think you're smarter than everyone here ? We know he's a FA and we know about the Franchise tag; something you from the other crappy board evidently don't.

Re: How many #1 picks for Cassel?

mcbee said:

I think they'll trade Cassel. Maybe 2 #1s.

For all the nay-sayers out there, Cassel's probably better than Ryan and he was a 3rd pick.

So 2 #1s is cheap.

Click to expand...

Cassel is better than Ryan because Cassel has had over three years in the NFL and three + years practicing in the same system and three + years under Tom Brady's tutelage and he has better receivers to throw to and he has a better coaching staff.

Ryan looks like he will be fine, and so does Cassel.

Silly thread, but I'm not surprised.

Re: How many #1 picks for Cassel?

spacecrime said:

Silly thread, but I'm not surprised.

Click to expand...

1010101010

Re: How many #1 picks for Cassel?

I've been trying to come up with a scenario in which the Patriot's can extract a draft pick from another team next year...and the problem is...franchising Cassel with the non-exclusive franchise tag would cost $8.5+ million once he signs it ... and then the Patriots have to clear cap space to fit Cassel under the cap, even if it is only for 1 day. If Cassel has a lights out 2008 season, then franchising is a no brainer. However, if Cassel has middle of the road stats and the Pats slap a franchise tag on him, it may become a game of chicken. Both sides need to weigh the likelyhood of Cassel signing a long term contract with another team. If Cassel is unsure, he may sign it immediately, lock in a large 1 year salary, and let the Pats deal with the consequences. Can the Pats afford near $20 mill in cap hits for Brady and Cassel in one year if they can't unload Cassel. Under this scenario ( average 2008 performance but franchised ) I have to believe that Brady's health for 2009 would be in question.
This will be very interesting and a classic example of NFL Economics

Re: How many #1 picks for Cassel?

borg said:

I've been trying to come up with a scenario in which the Patriot's can extract a draft pick from another team next year...and the problem is...franchising Cassel with the non-exclusive franchise tag would cost $8.5+ million once he signs it ... and then the Patriots have to clear cap space to fit Cassel under the cap, even if it is only for 1 day. If Cassel has a lights out 2008 season, then franchising is a no brainer. However, if Cassel has middle of the road stats and the Pats slap a franchise tag on him, it may become a game of chicken. Both sides need to weigh the likelyhood of Cassel signing a long term contract with another team. If Cassel is unsure, he may sign it immediately, lock in a large 1 year salary, and let the Pats deal with the consequences. Can the Pats afford near $20 mill in cap hits for Brady and Cassel in one year if they can't unload Cassel. Under this scenario ( average 2008 performance but franchised ) I have to believe that Brady's health for 2009 would be in question.
This will be very interesting and a classic example of NFL Economics

Click to expand...

Yes, and the keys will be how well Cassel is doing in the long run, and how the Pats feel about Brady not having complications from his surgery.

My guess is that if we are 6-2 by mid-season, and Cassel shows himself to be an above average QB, the Pats will sign him to a 2-year deal with middle of the road starter money, say 2 years, $10-12 mil, at least $6-7 mil guaranteed.

If we are 4-4 at mid season, then he can play out the year for what he is making right now.

Re: How many #1 picks for Cassel?

Even if the Pats make the playoffs, Matt Cassel would not fetch much

in a trade. However, the Pats could then keep Cassel and trade Tom

for two #1 draft picks. Think of the salary cap money we could save.

Re: How many #1 picks for Cassel?

Jimke said:

Even if the Pats make the playoffs, Matt Cassel would not fetch much

in a trade. However, the Pats could then keep Cassel and trade Tom

for two #1 draft picks. Think of the salary cap money we could save.

Click to expand...

You ought to be ashamed of yourself for even suggesting it.

Re: How many #1 picks for Cassel?

Ice Cold Bruschi said:

You ought to be ashamed of yourself for even suggesting it.

Click to expand...

There ought to be a button to press so the reader can detect sarcasm.........
Oh and the only problem with franchising him is the risk that you can't get another team to trade for him..Then you're stuck with a backup QB making $9-10 Million of cap space......
Not an unrealistic possibility if he is viewed as a 'system QB'

Re: How many #1 picks for Cassel?

Patsfanin Philly said:

Oh and the only problem with franchising him is the risk that you can't get another team to trade for him..Then you're stuck with a backup QB making $9-10 Million of cap space......

Click to expand...

That's only if he signs the franchise tender, right? If Cassel believes there's a market out there for him to start and get a multi-year deal, he wouldn't sign, at least not right away.

If he doesn't sign and there turns out to be no market, can't we remove the tag and let him go free?

Or am I fuzzy on the franchise rules? Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Re: How many #1 picks for Cassel?

borg said:

I've been trying to come up with a scenario in which the Patriot's can extract a draft pick from another team next year...and the problem is...franchising Cassel with the non-exclusive franchise tag would cost $8.5+ million once he signs it

Click to expand...

1.) Once a team applies the franchise tag, the amount of the tag counts against the cap immediately. Please note that the deadline to apply the franchise tag is usually a couple days before free agency begins.
2.) As it stands right now, the 2009 franchise tag number for QBs will be $14,143,000


Peyton Manning Indianapolis $18,700,000
Tom Brady New England $14,620,000
Carson Palmer Cincinnati $13,980,000
Brett Favre NY Jets $12,000,000
Eli Manning NY Giants $11,416,666

Re: How many #1 picks for Cassel?

Hok said:

If he doesn't sign and there turns out to be no market, can't we remove the tag and let him go free?

Click to expand...

Yes, that is correct.

Re: How many #1 picks for Cassel?

So some of the realistic problems with the franchise-and-trade outlook:

The Pats would need to clear and hold $14mm in cap space - effectively locking them out of the free agency market while Cassel is franchised

The trading team would need to similarly clear $14mm in space until Cassel is re-structured

The Patriots would risk that no other team would be willing to make a quick trade with the Patriots, especially surrendering significant picks to them, prolonging the period where the Patriots are against the cap

There is a risk the Patriots would be carrying two of the three most-expensive QB's in the league if Cassel signed the tag (although the Patriots would likely release him, as noted)

Trading partners would be dealing from a position of strength relative to the Patriots, knowing that the Patriots need to trade -- a corollary to the Brett Favre trade for a much more accomplished QB

How would trading partners convert the value of a Cassel throwing to Moss and Welker in the Pats system to the value of a Cassel throwing to Joe Bagadonuts and Jag Walkon on their own teams?

Other teams would be less likely to trade both a high pick and pay a high salary for Cassel -- in the end, would the Patriots command something dramatically greater than the compensatory pick they would be awarded (likely a year later than a traded pick) if Cassel walked in exchange for the risks

A number of significant risks and costs under this outlook.
This brings up the very same debates about Bishop and to some extent Davey that we had in past years.

Re: How many #1 picks for Cassel?

MoLewisrocks said:

If Cassel is mediocre he is gone and they won't re-sign him for $1, dope.

Click to expand...

I disagree there.

You are looking for mediocrity at vet back-up QB.
Damon Huard, Vinnie Testaverde, Doug Flutie. I think those guys could be labeled "mediocre" at the times the Pats had them at vet back-up positions.

Many teams like to have a top starter, a young high-potential developmental QB, and a mediocre vet. Guys like Trent Green, Gus Frerotte, Kerry Collins, etc.

If Cassel is only mediocre, I think that prices him into the Pats back-up budget.
It's if he's very good, and gone as a starter, or very bad, and out of the league, that I think he departs.

Re: How many #1 picks for Cassel?

Urgent said:

There is a risk the Patriots would be carrying two of the three most-expensive QB's in the league if Cassel signed the tag (although the Patriots would likely release him, as noted)

Click to expand...

Signing the franchise tag guarantees the player the tag amount. I seriously doubt that if the Pats tag Cassel and he signs the tender that the Pats will then release him.

Re: How many #1 picks for Cassel?

Urgent said:

The trading team would need to similarly clear $14mm in space until Cassel is re-structured.

Click to expand...

Not if the Pats do sign and trade. The acquiring team can then sign Cassel to a new deal the day of the trade. From the CBA:
"A Club is not required to have Room to execute a Player Contract with a player to whom the Club has
exclusive negotiating rights if the player is assigned to another Club via a trade on the same business day as the
execution of the contract, and the assignee Club has or makes Room for such Player Contract"