TY Thread LLX: A Good Question

So many people on here make the claim that Ty had a ton of penalties for a ton of yards last year. Is this a personal opinion or a fact? I looked on NFL.com and couldn't find such a stat. Where are you guys getting this from? What documentation is there that shows Ty being so much worse thatn other corners in the league? It is true than it should not be too difficult to document.

Digger44 said:

So many people on here make the claim that Ty had a ton of penalties for a ton of yards last year. Is this a personal opinion or a fact? I looked on NFL.com and couldn't find such a stat. Where are you guys getting this from? What documentation is there that shows Ty being so much worse thatn other corners in the league? It is true than it should not be too difficult to document.

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Really good question.. Ty is a physical corner and I think the perception is that he gets a lot of penalties.. I recall more times him making a play then getting called on one.. Even last year as I laughed at my brother being a Jets fan, Ty played well for them.. Everyone said he was fat and his INT's were because of tipped balls.. Well 10 INT is 10 INT.. He was the one bright spot on that team last year..

mcsully said:

Really good question.. Ty is a physical corner and I think the perception is that he gets a lot of penalties.. I recall more times him making a play then getting called on one.. Even last year as I laughed at my brother being a Jets fan, Ty played well for them.. Everyone said he was fat and his INT's were because of tipped balls.. Well 10 INT is 10 INT.. He was the one bright spot on that team last year..

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No, No Noodlearm was a big brightspot 4 me. Seriously though, I agree Ty played well and 10 Int's still leads the league.

Digger44 said:

So many people on here make the claim that Ty had a ton of penalties for a ton of yards last year. Is this a personal opinion or a fact? I looked on NFL.com and couldn't find such a stat. Where are you guys getting this from? What documentation is there that shows Ty being so much worse thatn other corners in the league? It is true than it should not be too difficult to document.

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It is true that he led the league in defensive holding and/or PI penalties. They're not (I don't think) official league statistics, so they won't be on the league's website. I'll see if I can find a list from someone who charts games, like Dr. Z.

dryheat44 said:

It is true that he led the league in defensive holding and/or PI penalties. They're not (I don't think) official league statistics, so they won't be on the league's website. I'll see if I can find a list from someone who charts games, like Dr. Z.

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cool dry, ty. I would love to see it documented how he compared to the average corner.

Well, the numbers aren't as bad as I thought, although I have no idea what average was. Going through each game last year, and checking every play (I have time), Law was whistled for 8 PI/Holding/Illegal Contact penalties. I should probably say that 6 of them were in the first six games, so he definitely got better and adapting to the rules. Two other things jumped out at me:

1. Ty got three picks against Kelly Holcomb in the last game of the season.
2. He was credited with A LOT of tackles on Wide Receivers. Obviously, from play-by-play, we don't know how many were on the guy he was covering, and how many he chased down that weren't his responsibility, but the majority of them must have been his man.

One explanation is that Ty got less aggressive in coverage as the year went on.

re

dryheat44 said:

Well, the numbers aren't as bad as I thought, although I have no idea what average was. Going through each game last year, and checking every play (I have time), Law was whistled for 8 PI/Holding/Illegal Contact penalties. I should probably say that 6 of them were in the first six games, so he definitely got better and adapting to the rules. Two other things jumped out at me:

1. Ty got three picks against Kelly Holcomb in the last game of the season.
2. He was credited with A LOT of tackles on Wide Receivers. Obviously, from play-by-play, we don't know how many were on the guy he was covering, and how many he chased down that weren't his responsibility, but the majority of them must have been his man.

One explanation is that Ty got less aggressive in coverage as the year went on.

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That is not too bad. He is probably a top 15 cornerback still.

I like that he only got two penalties in the last 10 games of the season. I will attribute his earlier penalties to still being out of shape from injury recovery in his first 6 games.

As for tackles, it's hard to say what it means. Maybe the Jets had a poor pass rush, or liked to blitz a lot, or had to stack the box a lot because they couldn't stop the run.

I don't like how he left, but I would welcome him if he took a contract for under $4M/yr.

mcsully said:

Really good question.. Ty is a physical corner and I think the perception is that he gets a lot of penalties.. I recall more times him making a play then getting called on one.. Even last year as I laughed at my brother being a Jets fan, Ty played well for them.. Everyone said he was fat and his INT's were because of tipped balls.. Well 10 INT is 10 INT.. He was the one bright spot on that team last year..

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There are interceptions and then there are interceptions. I think the ones that count as far as being a top corner are the ones where the CB goes for the ball in roughly the same space as the receiver. I certainly didn't watch the Jets games last year, but I did see on replay clips a couple of his interceptions. On one, the receiver had cleared out on a fly pattern and Law was the only player within 5 or 10 yards of the ball - the QB just threw to the wrong place. On another one, Law was not covering tight but was maybe 5 yards deeper than the receiver and the receiver missed the ball and Law grabbed it. Those kind of interceptions are more or less gifts and I don't think very indicative of whether a CB is an effective 'cover' CB. If there are any Jets fans around or folks who watched Jets games, it would be interesting to see what the impression is about how many tight cover interceptions there were out of the 10 versus getting gifts.

maverick4 said:

As for tackles, it's hard to say what it means. Maybe the Jets had a poor pass rush, or liked to blitz a lot, or had to stack the box a lot because they couldn't stop the run.

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I ignored the plays where he tackled a running back. The ones I started tabulating (then lost count) were when a receiver made a catch, then was tackled or run OOB by Ty.

Again, several probably weren't his fault. But the majority probably was the WR he was responsible for covering. I have a little bit of time, so I could review the play-by-play again, if it would be helpful.

dryheat44 said:

Well, the numbers aren't as bad as I thought, although I have no idea what average was. Going through each game last year, and checking every play (I have time), Law was whistled for 8 PI/Holding/Illegal Contact penalties. I should probably say that 6 of them were in the first six games, so he definitely got better and adapting to the rules. Two other things jumped out at me:

1. Ty got three picks against Kelly Holcomb in the last game of the season.
2. He was credited with A LOT of tackles on Wide Receivers. Obviously, from play-by-play, we don't know how many were on the guy he was covering, and how many he chased down that weren't his responsibility, but the majority of them must have been his man.

One explanation is that Ty got less aggressive in coverage as the year went on.

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Those state are not what I expected, much lower actually. Ty may have gotten less aggressive because he started to get healthy as well as drop some weight. Seems more probable that he got in better shape as the season went on. Also he may have gotten better when he got used to the new def system.

So in response to all those who claim Ty was so aweful with penalties, he only had eight. Six in the first six games.

LAW had 10 picks last year and the officiating last year sucked look at the denver game jeff triplett has out against the pats and the super bowl the steelers had not one penalty called in the last 90 plays they ran talk about giving them the game steelers were handed the lombardi

arrellbee said:

There are interceptions and then there are interceptions.

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No there are not. A pick is a pick. Nobody is calling out Asante and saying he has to many gifts.

LAW IN ORDER said:

LAW had 10 picks last year and the officiating last year sucked look at the denver game jeff triplett has out against the pats and the super bowl the steelers had not one penalty called in the last 90 plays they ran talk about giving them the game steelers were handed the lombardi

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Oh so now Law only had 10 picks because the officials gave them to him.

Digger44 said:

No there are not. A pick is a pick. Nobody is calling out Asante and saying he has to many gifts.

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Not really. A QB can badly underthrow a WR, or a DE might deflect a pass straight up into the air. Those are right place/right time picks. I remember Law had one against Tampa, but I don't know if he had an abnormal amount. Four were vs Kelly Holcomb, which is an abnormal amount.

Anyway, I went through the games again. Some of these WRs Ty was probably covering for someone who blew a coverage, but in others, he blew the coverage and someone else made the tackle. Also, on touchdowns, the box scores don't note who was in coverage. I don't believe Ty would have had coverage on a TE or an RB, although it is possible that he did on some of the better TEs (Gonzalez, McMichael):

Kansas City: Gonzalez, Kennison. (1)
Miami: McMichael, McMichael, Chambers (1)
Jax: Williams, Jones, Williams (3)
Baltimore: Clayton (1)
Tampa: Alstott, Becht, Galloway, Smith, Pittman (1)
Buffalo: Moulds, Moulds, Reed (3)
Atlanta: None
San Diego: Tomlinson (0)
Carolina: Foster (0) Panthers ran almost every play
Denver: Devoe (1)
New Orleans: Stallworth, Stallworth, Hilton, Karney (2)
New England: Givens, Givens, Davis (3)
Oakland: Porter, Moss, Gabriel (3)
Miami: McMichael, Chambers (1)
New England: Faulk, Branch (1)
Buffalo: Parrish, Moulds (2)

So he gave up +/- 23 non-scoring catches, including several long ones, plus several touchdowns, plus 8 automatic first downs on penalties. Balance that against the INTs.

you must love starks & crew way to stay dry

jets ranked pretty good against the pass..top 10 or top 12 i believe.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2005/09/30/ramblings/stat-analysis/2962/

hope that helps

im still a fan of him .. shows how he did a little..not too good really but he was coming on football field for first time in awhile during first 3 weeks

LAW IN ORDER said:

you must love starks & crew way to stay dry

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Are you on drugs or just a moron?

what does LLX mean?

nice photo red in blue in da face starks lover

Digger44 said:

No there are not. A pick is a pick. Nobody is calling out Asante and saying he has to many gifts.

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You beat me to the punch.. INT IS AN INT..